Falling slight leaner with a plain old bottle jack?

[northmanlogging]

Greetings.

Although I am not a novice at falling, this is the first time in my 65 years down here that I am faced with having to fall two good-sized trees, one poplar and one sweet gum, both a good 36" or more at the butt. Looking for a cost-effective, feasible insurance policy to assure that they will fall where I want 'em to fall. And I can't afford a Silvey. Would a hydraulic bottle jack work SAFELY in a pinch? If so, would you recommend about a 4X4 inch piece of flat steel being placed between the tree and the jack to avoid the jack penetrating the tree itself as the jack does its job?

Thanks.

Jacks work the treat, though don't even bother with anything less then a 20ton jack, the plates a must have but get one 3/8" thick or thicker. And still keep a wedge in there as a back up, hydraulics fail then yer really in a pickle. (I have a pair of 25t jacks I use regularly, the plate has a piece of tubing welded on to keep them centered over the jacks ram, for a one shot deal you should be ok though)

As mentioned above, a good quality rope 1/2-2/3rd ups the tree is much better insurance as long as you have enough ass to hold it, yer pick em up truck might not be enough, better if you have a redirect that get the pull going low to the pull rig, rather then direct to the tree, as it can and probably will lift said pull rig off the ground and catapult it if things go bad. (not like trebuchet bad but still not good)

Lastly, I wouldn't rely on a jack or wedges in a poplar tree out here, I've done yes, and it can be done again, but they have realllly brittle wood and can just pop off the stump with too much pressure and not enough lift. Then they go wherever they want and its generally a very bad day.

 

[Mountainman]

Jacks work the treat, though don't even bother with anything less then a 20ton jack, the plates a must have but get one 3/8" thick or thicker. And still keep a wedge in there as a back up, hydraulics fail then yer really in a pickle. (I have a pair of 25t jacks I use regularly, the plate has a piece of tubing welded on to keep them centered over the jacks ram, for a one shot deal you should be ok though)

As mentioned above, a good quality rope 1/2-2/3rd ups the tree is much better insurance as long as you have enough ass to hold it, yer pick em up truck might not be enough, better if you have a redirect that get the pull going low to the pull rig, rather then direct to the tree, as it can and probably will lift said pull rig off the ground and catapult it if things go bad. (not like trebuchet bad but still not good)

Lastly, I wouldn't rely on a jack or wedges in a poplar tree out here, I've done yes, and it can be done again, but they have realllly brittle wood and can just pop off the stump with too much pressure and not enough lift. Then they go wherever they want and its generally a very bad day.

Thanks for the input.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Undermine Center of Gravity more with a bit deeper face cut, to essentially increase lean forward to put a few more points on your side;
and pull from high, rigid, balanced pull position.
Wedge kinda as backup against sit down back.
If some sideLean, keep hinge more in widest part of tree across for leverage fighting against sideLean or Taper Hinge for even more leverage against sideLean*.
.
Precision cut facecuts to meet squarely, scrutinizing as if fine woodwork specifically at their mating seam.
>>DO NOT want a face within a face, of crossed facecuts,
>>very especially DO NOT let ,the horizontal cut bypass the slanted to make face within a face !!!
Make face into live, non damaged, above root crown (where the grain is scrambled)part is best.
40' up from hinge pivot x 300lb pull =12k on hinge forward.
(a lot of city electric poles are about 30' as guide)
>>but really is relative to how high the Center of Gravity(CoG) is in tree on pivot of hinge.
>>i picture rest of tree as weightless, and only deal with the CoG force thru the rigid tree framework teetering on most compressed part of hinge as pivot; work to command the CoG force, and it carries the tree-shell along with it.
Pulling or pushing or lifting tree forward makes thicker hinge as if tree heavier and fell sooner, then the fake load forward comes off as tree lifts from wedge, jack, rope slackens etc. with thicker hinge than would have made for itself. As adjustments the extra inputs last until this point, but what program into hinge lasts until close/tear-off...
.
Many times just need to tip the scales more forward, and let Nature take it's course.
.
*"Tapered Hinge"
With some experience , can approach some sideLean: make that hinge side thin and the opposing side thick, as a counter-ballast against the side pull; to fall more squarely/purely to target.
As to cancel side pull part of lean out; and to then reveal, only the forward pulls remaining; to then bring tree home more squarely as faced.
This makes a slight slanted/tapered hinge pointing at the heavy side; fatter on the 'offside' (Douglas Dent).
.
For jack there must be sound level base shelf and ceiling; wide enough cut and deep enough in not to spit jack out as loads !
.
3 men pulling a 3/1 should give even more than 300# input.
Overpull is usual crime, especially with machinery; should come home nicely when teeter totter is tipped so far and committed in motion correctly, no more backcut nor forward pull needed or weakens, allowing to fall as engineered while clearing out of the KZ @45degrees to rear as pre-planned and cleared.
.
Pix, tree height, width(36"?), if can guess CoG too would all help

 

[SkyP]

Question about tree lean- I have a pine, about 8" at the base, that is beginning to lean more than I'd like over a shed.
I've wondered if I get a steel cable as high as I can, probably around 25ft, around the tree and put a good pull on it- let it sit for days, weeks or even a month, can I permanently bend the tree enough to make it safe at some point to insure it drops away from the shed? IOW make it lean away from the direction I don't want it to fall.
We've had some pines cleared that were bothering me too close to the house.
Now it seems the pines on the edge of the clearing that were previously straight up have begun leaning toward the cleared area in search of more sun I suppose.. So this again puts them in a lean that is increasing and making them more likely to hit the house- which was what I originally had them cut back for.

 

[onedash]

I bought two good ropes, a more power puller, some tree straps, snatch blocks, shackles, carabiners, etc and wedges. And a helmet and chaps. Much cheaper than hiring a pro and for all the heavy leaners its worked great. Had big oak next to the house that died, I hired pros for that one. Had one land in another tree and the more power puller was able to yank it out.

 

[Bearcreek]

Question about tree lean- I have a pine, about 8" at the base, that is beginning to lean more than I'd like over a shed.
I've wondered if I get a steel cable as high as I can, probably around 25ft, around the tree and put a good pull on it- let it sit for days, weeks or even a month, can I permanently bend the tree enough to make it safe at some point to insure it drops away from the shed? IOW make it lean away from the direction I don't want it to fall.

No, you won't be able to induce a permanent lean that way. You can, however, use the cable to pull the tree when felling it. Do you know how to fell a tree a specific direction?

 

[Hermio]

Quit that bottle jack fiasco and go buy two things.
Shot line with something on the end to toss about a pound like a shot bag.
Go buy a 120 shot of 1/2" rope. Shoot the line and pull it over. Much safer and you won't even be near the tree. Cut it then fell it. A serious winch over 8,000 lb or a 3,500 or more, a com-a-long or Lugall also works nicely. It might be slower but it's much safer and the chosen method when working near any structures like homes or power lines. Climbers just go up and set the line and repel down.

Rappel, not repel.

 

[lone wolf]

Best bet is on the throw line and rope with a mechanical advantage pulling the tree over. Just use a strong rope.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I've always been restricted by how much ladder, I don't climb trees. I tension the rope, cable, or chains before starting the back cut and increase as the tree changes center of gravity.

missed this post

Get a 200 or more shot of 1/2" 7000lb rope.
You can bust off a tree with that and zero cuts. If you can toss that shot line bag through a crotch and tie the line above your cut once pulled through, you are a tree god with full control. You will never ever need a ladder again.
I ****ing HATE ladders!

Edited: 200 or more

 

[lone wolf]

missed this post

Get a 150 shot of 1/2" 7000lb rope.
You can bust off a tree with that and zero cuts. If you can toss that shot line bag through a crotch and tie the line above your cut once pulled through, you are a tree god with full control. You will never ever need a ladder again.
I ****ing HATE ladders!

Yeah, stay off ladders with tree work.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Didn't bother to read the entire thread but I do use the jack method on occasion, but not a bottle jack as the window to insert it is way to large (IMO). I use a low profile bottle jack with a remote hydraulic pump and hose coupler and wedges too.