Fast-Filer Chain Filing Guide

[SawTroll]

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I was filing on spare guide bars, clamped in a bench vise. While this worked for newer chains with tighter links, links on older, worn, 'stretched' chains moved about quite a bit between the mounting slots on the bottom of the Fast Filer. This would probably not be a problem if the chains were tensioned on a guide bar mounted on a saw.

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The problem will be reduced, but there is no doubt it still will be a problem. This isn't the only guide that suffers from that problem though - all I know of does, when the chain is filed on a chainsaw bar.

An observation from the initial videos; It looks (and sounds) like the demo person let the file scrape on the cutters on the back stroke - witch creates serious doubts about how knowledgeable he is about chain filing.

 

[SawTroll]

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Overall, I am still optimistic for these being a good choice for some folks. The true test will be filing some full chains and cutting with them! That might take me a while to get to, but I am hoping that some forum members outside of the US may have also tried these and have some experiences to share.

Philbert

Then you are much more optimistic than I am...

 

[Dugndeep]

I also looked at the Stihl 2-n-1 sharpener but with it you still have to keep your angles right for it to work properly.I got to get off here and hit the road.

 

[SawTroll]

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A perfect chain is a term I made up to describe a chain that has an equal number of left and right cutters and no extra tie straps where the loop is joined. Stihl 20" 3/8 chains work out to a 'perfect' chain.

.... .

With standard full comp chain any dl count that is devidable by 4 will make a "perfect" loop, provided it was cut and joined in the correct place. Any count that is devidable by 2 also will make perfect one as for distance between cutters, but will have one more cutter on one side if it isn't also devidable with 4.

With skip chain the story is different.

It is odd and totally unnecessary to design bars that take an odd dl count as "standard" (with both 7- and 8-pin rims on most saws), as "called" bar length seldom is accurate anyway. Some brands pay more attention to this than others, but none I know of has a "perfect record" in this regard.

If it really matters is a different question, but at least it looks untidy and somewhat careless.

 

[SawTroll]

Because it is a new saw and chain I'm hoping it will work in keeping it cutting like a new chain.The chain is a Carlton K2 I do believe that come on the saw.

It doesn't take much to cut like a new Carlton chain, as they aren't sharp when new.

That aside, the guide obviously doesn't work perfectly even on new chain (for reasons already explained), and it will work much worse on chain that have been filed back a bit, as the raker guide isn't progressive, leaving the rakers too high.

Also, if you start with the shortest/most damaged cutter and use the "length lock", the chain will be used up earlier than needed.

I'm not saying the guide doesn't work, but it obviously has some serious limitations.

 

[rwoods]

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Also, if you start with the shortest/most damaged cutter and use the "length lock", the chain will be used up earlier than needed.

... .

Are you saying you are not a member of all the cutters must be the same length club? I consider maintaining the same length to be a waste of chain with little corresponding benefit but I know nothing.

Ron

 

[SawTroll]

Are you saying you are not a member of all the cutters must be the same length club? I consider maintaining the same length to be a waste of chain with little corresponding benefit but I know nothing.

Ron

That's what I'm saying, yes! It doesn't matter much unless there is a general side to side difference, when the rakers are set to the individual cutter. Saw chains doesn't go in a straight line, but rather in waves along the bar.

Everything has its limits though - my point is that you shouldn't let a damaged cutter or two dictate the length of all cutters, and that using the same number of strokes on undamaged cutters is good enough.

 

[Philbert]

Are you saying you are not a member of all the cutters must be the same length club?

That's what I'm saying, yes! . . . Everything has its limits though - my point is that you shouldn't let a damaged cutter or two dictate the length of all cutters, and that using the same number of strokes on undamaged cutters is good enough.

This is a point where I disagree with SawToll. Clearly, if you have one damaged cutter, you don't need to waste an entire loop, grinding all others back to match. But, generally, you want all cutters the same length to have a smooth cutting chain. Cutter height and width are linked to cutter length - setting these the same on all teeth is referred to as 'jointing' and 'setting' in general saw sharpening. If the cutters are not the same, the loop will not cut as smoothly, and some cutters will participate more in the cutting than others.

Philbert

 

[Dugndeep]

Got a surprise today when come home and opened up the mailbox,the Fast Filer.I opened it up and set it on the bar and set the round file in there and adjusted it up close to the round file and it does appear that it will work.My only complaint with it is the shipping,unless it's put into a box it's going to get squashed or something.It come in one of those plastic sacks that looked a little roughed up,USPS must be loading stuff with a fork lift,maybe running over them with said fork lift also.Flat file not to flat anymore.I looked at the rest of it and seen no damage.

 

[Dugndeep]

That electric filer dad bought years ago is a Wen or Wagner,they both marketed it.

 

[Dugndeep]

I got an old dead tree here by the driveway I was going to break the new saw in on,I could probably just pull it down with the tractor plus it might just fall down on it's own,won't hurt nothing if it does but I just got home and it 95 degree's outside so it can wait.

 

[SawTroll]

This is a point where I disagree with SawToll. Clearly, if you have one damaged cutter, you don't need to waste an entire loop, grinding all others back to match. But, generally, you want all cutters the same length to have a smooth cutting chain. Cutter height and width are linked to cutter length - setting these the same on all teeth is referred to as 'jointing' and 'setting' in general saw sharpening. If the cutters are not the same, the loop will not cut as smoothly, and some cutters will participate more in the cutting than others.

Philbert

Minor differences doesn't matter because of the "wave" movement of the chain, and even large ones only because of cutter width, not because they are lower - provided the rakers are set to the individual cutter, and progressively lower as the cutter is filed back. A raker guide that sets the rakers at .025" only works on new chain, for hard wood - it will leave the rakers too high in any other situation.

The sharpness of the cutters is much more important anyway, and free hand with attention to details (holding the cutters firmly, and looking closely at what you do) no doubt is the best way. Guides are substitutes for lack of skills regarding cutters - but there is no way to set the rakers right without a good guide, which this one obviously isn't.

 

[Philbert]

My only complaint with it is the shipping,unless it's put into a box it's going to get squashed or something.

Let the seller know - they will keep mailing it that way unless they know that it is a problem.

That electric filer dad bought years ago is a Wen or Wagner,they both marketed it.

Around here, you could get $10 - $15 on CraigsList for something like that, if complete, in good condition. Different people like different things. Or, we have tradition around here, usually called something like the 'Xmas Giving Tread', which usually starts up in a month or 2: folks offer stuff for free, or for the cost of shipping, to other members. Could save it for that.

Minor differences doesn't matter . . . provided the rakers are set to the individual cutter, and progressively lower as the cutter is filed back. A raker guide that sets the rakers at .025" only works on new chain, for hard wood - it will leave the rakers too high in any other situation.

No reason why cutters can't be consistent length AND have progressively filed depth gauges!

Philbert

 

[SawTroll]

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No reason why cutters can't be consistent length AND have progressively filed depth gauges!

Philbert

No, but with the guide in question it doesn't look like the raker guide is progressive, so it is useless on anything but new chain. Even that has been questioned in an earlier post though...

As it looks to me, this is just another attempt to pray on people that know nothing about proper sharpening of a chain - sadly there area lot of those attempts around.

 

[Philbert]

It is not a progressive guide.

Philbert

 

[Dugndeep]

I bought the Fast Filer just to help a novice like me to sharpen a chain and keep cutters somewhat similar in length plus at the right angle.I remedied the flat file problem for less than $4 dollars out the door at Walmart.Seems Walmart is having a clearance sale on a lot of stuff in the garden department.I don't have to have an expert filed chain so long as it cuts.I'm probably going to get me a 16" or 18" bar and use that for cross cutting and save my 20" bar for milling when that comes along.Must be a lot of people getting into milling because a lot of the stuff is on back order at some web sites.

 

[SawTroll]

Let the seller know - they will keep mailing it that way unless they know that it is a problem.



Around here, you could get $10 - $15 on CraigsList for something like that, if complete, in good condition. Different people like different things. Or, we have tradition around here, usually called something like the 'Xmas Giving Tread', which usually starts up in a month or 2: folks offer stuff for free, or for the cost of shipping, to other members. Could save it for that.



No reason why cutters can't be consistent length AND have progressively filed depth gauges!

Philbert

No, but the length doesn't need to be that consistent - and it is a waste of chain life to file all of them according to the most damaged one.

What creates a need for all cutters to be the exact same length are badly designed raker guides, that ride on two cutters, and thereby mess up the raker setting when all cutters aren't exactly the same length.

Now this guide sets the rakers to the individual cutter, but the raker guide part of it still is useless for anything but new chain for hard wood, as .025" is too shallow for anything else (if it works as intended that is, some uncertainty has been created about that).

Another possible issue is that the slots that ride over the chain are so deep that the also go down on the bar - which creates the question if they can be pushed over enough to hold the chain firmly or not. The answer likely depends on how tight the slots fit on the bar - when they are that deep they should fit snugly on the chain, but not on the bar. A chain that is rocking over when you file it (they always do to some degree, unless manually pushed over, or locked in a wise) will not get a straight cutting edge when the angles are locked to the bar, and not the chain.

 

[LegDeLimber]

Looking at the shipping damage pics.
I can't image that a file that would bend like that
would have teeth hard enough to cut a chain
for more that a couple of strokes, ...at best.

Call me a cynic, but gut feeling says just toss the round file too.

About the electric grinder: Did Philbert or anyone else
run a thread on that type tool?
Sorry that I can't recall, as my memory is a bit "more foggier" after the latest dose of anesthesia.

 

[Philbert]

I can't image that a file that would bend like that would have teeth hard enough to cut a chain for more that a couple of strokes, ...at best.

Try it with some of your files. I believe that they are hardened on the outside, but not all the way through.

About the electric grinder: Did Philbert or anyone else run a thread on that type tool?

Couple of threads on Dremel tools (and variants):
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/rotary-chain-grinders-dremel-granberg-etc.286936/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-sharpens-chain-with-rotary-tool.275711/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/12-volt-rotary-chain-grinders-recommendations.295269/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/grandberg-type-sharpening-stones.285808/#post-5564145

Philbert

 

[Dugndeep]

Looking at the shipping damage pics.
I can't image that a file that would bend like that
would have teeth hard enough to cut a chain
for more that a couple of strokes, ...at best.

Call me a cynic, but gut feeling says just toss the round file too.

About the electric grinder: Did Philbert or anyone else
run a thread on that type tool?
Sorry that I can't recall, as my memory is a bit "more foggier" after the latest dose of anesthesia.

That Trilink file is a lot stiffer than that Archer file.I liked the handle on the Archer so I took it off and put it on the Trilink file,perfect fit and size.Got lucky there.The round file is a lot stiffer,it is straight,I don't know how though after seeing the other file,package must have rode a long ways with a heavier package laying on top of it to set that bend into the flat file.I put the staples into the bottom of the package the sharpener come in,that way I can just put it all back in the package and hang it on the garage wall out of harms way,I'm a tool junkie and am about to run out of hanging wall space...lol