Felling or bucking more likely to result in injury?

[TheJollyLogger]

I'm sorry, the way the question is worded is plucking at me. Neither is overly dangerous if you know what you are doing, if you haven't a clue, they are both dangerous. I just don't see why an experienced guy would ask the question, and I don't see why a newbie would ask a potentially dangerous question of a bunch of guys on line. I quit following the home owners helper thread because there are a half dozen or so guys that really know what they are doing. Then you get a guy that's only been using his Craftsman chainsaw for a month, answering potentially dangerous questions, with really stupid advice, and his advice is just as viable as the pro. The problem with asking advice here, is guys are going to answer assuming, you have equipment as good as theirs, that's as sharp as theirs, with out actually knowing the OP. If the OP posts a pic and I say, "Just make a deep notch and follow with a fast back cut." Turns out the OP has a dull MS 290 with an 18" bar, and I'm using my MS 660 with a 36" bar that I just sharpened razor sharp. Too many variables to safely give advice on line.

I think my main point is at the end if the day technique trumps an equipment fix.... and honestly I would rather deal with a spar supported by limbs than on some jack rig that could spit out at any point when you take a limb of that changes the COG... sounds way sketchy to me... I would rather have it suspended on limbs that I can remove in a planned fashion than one questionable stable point of connection...

Case in point... cleaning up after Ike in Houston in '08 I was bucking and limbing with a trackhoe with thumbs... he lifted the trunk up so I could buck it... and happened to put a **** ton of tension on the trunk, neither one of us saw it, but when I got 2/3 of the way through it basically did a horizontal barber chair and swatted me 30' like I was a bug.... 2 busted ribs later I told him thanks but no thanks, I will buck and limb where they lie, lol

 

[johnsayen]

I think my main point is at the end if the day technique trumps an equipment fix.... and honestly I would rather deal with a spar supported by limbs than on some jack rig that could spit out at any point when you take a limb of that changes the COG... sounds way sketchy to me... I would rather have it suspended on limbs that I can remove in a planned fashion than one questionable stable point of connection...

Case in point... cleaning up after Ike in Houston in '08 I was bucking and limbing with a trackhoe with thumbs... he lifted the trunk up so I could buck it... and happened to put a **** ton of tension on the trunk, neither one of us saw it, but when I got 2/3 of the way through it basically did a horizontal barber chair and swatted me 30' like I was a bug.... 2 busted ribs later I told him thanks but no thanks, I will buck and limb where they lie, lol

Wow

 

[rarefish383]

Actually, guys that work solo without being properly trained is a big reason that logging holds its position in the dangerous jobs industry. You are skipping steps and felling trees you haven't been even trained to buck up, working solo, and thinking some piece of equipment will make up for lack of training. Who has excessive machismo?

I get your point. This is the quote I was rambling on about. Too many people that absolutely should not be working alone, are. At UPS we would bring tractor trailer drivers up from within. At peak season we would hire temp drivers. I asked our manager why he didn’t hire this one temp, full time. He said he personally told the guy not to perform blind side backs in the yard. Our yard was so tight you could not walk between the trailers. The guy could do it, continued to do it, with no issues. But our blind side backing accidents increased by younger drivers trying to do what the temp could do. Bottom line, they didn’t want people bringing bad habits into the yard, no matter how good they were. If you learn how to do something wrong, it will eventually bite you. There are plenty of variables out there just looking for you, Don’t need to add bad habits to the mix.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I get your point. This is the quote I was rambling on about. Too many people that absolutely should not be working alone, are. At UPS we would bring tractor trailer drivers up from within. At peak season we would hire temp drivers. I asked our manager why he didn’t hire this one temp, full time. He said he personally told the guy not to perform blind side backs in the yard. Our yard was so tight you could not walk between the trailers. The guy could do it, continued to do it, with no issues. But our blind side backing accidents increased by younger drivers trying to do what the temp could do. Bottom line, they didn’t want people bringing bad habits into the yard, no matter how good they were. If you learn how to do something wrong, it will eventually bite you. There are plenty of variables out there just looking for you, Don’t need to add bad habits to the mix.

One of the biggest challenges I always had training new climbers was getting them to crawl before they walked, so to speak. They had seen me do something in a special situation but didn't appreciate the thought that went into the decision to do it that way, that time.... You have to know the rules before you can break the rules, and know why you are breaking the rules in that specific situation.

 

[quantico]

I am no pro.. but have been cutting stuff here and there for 40 plus years. Understanding physics and knowing where not to put a foot or hand is critical. Thinking before you act is the skill, car repairs...building. cutting trees or wood or using a cutting torch you need to think about what you think will happen or what might happen expected or not.

 

[outdoor_frenzy]

So far I've had to replace the pole on my Echo PAS system saw twice. When things are fallen, tangled and twisted it's a life saver. I probably use my poll saw as much for stuff on the ground as in the air. I really worry more about all the tripping hazards than anything else.

Here’s what happens when using a pole saw and not clearing the ground as you go. Ripped my favorite shirt that day.

 

[Philbert]

So far I've had to replace the pole on my Echo PAS system saw twice. When things are fallen, tangled and twisted it's a life saver. I probably use my poll saw as much for stuff on the ground as in the air. I really worry more about all the tripping hazards than anything else.

Here’s what happens when using a pole saw and not clearing the ground as you go.

That's why questions, like the title of this thread are practically impossible to answer. Just learning that it's the tree that might 'get' you, not the scary chainsaw, is a huge concept to understand. Then, all the variations between trees, environments, situations, etc. Any time you try to pick the 'one', 'most important' thing, you ignore all the others.

A lot of these things can fall under 'situational awareness': what types are hazards might be in the work area? what are my escape routes (plural)? etc., along with your assessment of the tree, etc.

Philbert

 

[TheJollyLogger]

My mentor always told me "never cut faster than you can think..."

 

[jetsam]

Also be aware that you can plan out the possible outcomes all you like, but you do not actually know what the tree will do. Is there a punky spot in your hinge wood? Is there a steel fence post in the middle of the tree? You don't know until you start cutting.

So make your plans, but be aware that the saw and the tree might both do something unexpected, and both can be fairly exciting.

 

[cookies]

I think bucking is the more likely to injure. Once the tree is on the ground people get in a rush to cut it up it also seems to create a false sense of safety since its on the ground. Then you have people rushing around to remove debris and using a saw as fast as possible to cut as they go or keeping up with machinery/loading etc

 

[Vanguard]

A few things I've always lived by and a few ramblings that might help put this in perspective...

1. I'd rather get laid off because I worked safely than as a liability.
2. I'ts better getting canned doing something right than screwing things up.
3. Just because a long time veteran says they've been doing 'xyz' for 30 plus years doesn't mean they've always done it right for that long.
4. Always be an Apprentice in trade and craft, constantly learning something new and honing skills
5. Treat every business you work for as if it's your own, and treat everyone you work with as the business owner or the CEO.

I'd rather buck 48" wood on flat ground with minimal compression and / or tension than fell a 12+ inch - 40+ foot leaning Alder, knowing it has a greater chance to barber chair.

I'd rather fell a 6 inch - 20 foot straight Alder than buck 16" wood with compression and / or tension in several areas of the log on a slope with branches and brush around me everywhere.

Hopefully this might shed some light since there is no right one-size, fits all answer here.