Filing - guide positioning, direction of pressure, rakers first?

[Kenlip]

How many here can sharpen a chain just with a file/handle?

I learned that way before I ever owned a guide. A guide makes things easier, or me lazy.

I have been wondering about the advantages of hand-filing over using a guide. The only ones I can come up with are that, with hand filing, it is easier to rotate the file to even out the wear on the file, and easier to clean the file.

Other than ego, what are the other advantages?

Ken

 

[46 Poulan]

46 poulan, do you pronounce that (All-banny) or (Al-bany)?
I'm from Elberton.
I usually freehand file(when I dont use the bench grinder). I file across and push up slightly to get the cutter edge sharp, then put some back pressure in and roll slightly to get the "gullet". Always check the depth gauge height with the Oregon gauge and do depth gauges last.

Hello from Allbenny Ga. Welcome to the site--I like the old saws- David--Lets hear from some Ga. folks!!!

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thanks, Pioneerguy600
My saw is not great on the power front - Husky 141.
Yesterday, I read somewhere that, for Australian hardwoods, one should file at 25 degrees rather than 30 degrees. Almost all the cutting I am doing these days is cleaning up fallen, usually very dry, Ironbark and Stringybark. Does reducing the angle to 25 degrees make sense, and it it something I should do, bearing in mind the saw I have and the wood I am cutting?
Cheers
Ken

The lessening of the angle may help if the powerhead is under powered for the size and type of chain being used. I think of it as tuning the chain in to fit the saw and wood type. For me its shaping the cutter to be the most efficient slicer of fiber considering the power of the engine and its ability to pull the chain through the wood without bogging it down. Experimentation is the only way one will ever find out what works with each combination, change an angle and test it, lessen the hook and test it, increase the hook and test it, test different depth gauge settings and test again. Over the 56 years I have been hand filing I couldn`t tell you all the combinations I have tried but its been many. Little changes, maybe minute ones do affect how the chain reacts but only a person running that saw and chain can tell if its better or worse for the conditions of that day or hour.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mad Professor]

I have been wondering about the advantages of hand-filing over using a guide. The only ones I can come up with are that, with hand filing, it is easier to rotate the file to even out the wear on the file, and easier to clean the file.

Other than ego, what are the other advantages?

Ken

I can file any angle I wish, to match saw/chain/bar, set up for chain I am using. Wear on the file is a minor issue. Wear gloves, knuckles are expensive., files are cheap.

What pioneerguy600 is solid advice.

It might take a few chains on the saw to see what works best? If you change chains/bars then you start over. I'm partal to stihl chains and use the same ones when worn out.

 

[NSEric]

Thanks, NSEric,
Of the Husky and the Stihl sharpeners, do you have a preference and, if so, why?

Cheers
Ken

I have .325 chain on my saws, 3/8 may have different results...
The stihl 2in1 is easier to use as you don't need to swap the file from one end to the other when switching sides.
The husky one does a better job on my Oregon speed cut chain(im guessing it was designed for nk husky chain), the stihl 2in1 took way too much off the depth gauges, it works great on the full chisel 21lpx tho.
I take the stihl 2in1 with me to the woods to touch up my saw but with the depth gauge file removed as it does a great job on the cutters and its easier for to me to sharpen my chain on a stump without a vise with it. I guess I like the stihl one better as I never think of taking the husky one with me even tho it works fine.
I can do a pretty good job free hand IF I have the saw in a vise standing directly in front of it, I cant seam to free hand file worth a dam in the woods as I don't have anything to hold the saw good.

 

[holeycow]

You hold the saw (tooth) with one hand and file with the other.

I’m glad I had no knowledge of guides or vices (or grinders) when I got my first chainsaw.

Otherwise I’d need those crutches too.

There’s no ego involved.

I got a guide as part of the package with my ms362. I tried it. It got in my way. I haven’t touched it since. No ego involved.

Ego. ? Sheesh.

 

[NSEric]

I tired that for years, my chains were a mess.
I cant seam to find something to set the saw on when I need to sharpen it in the woods.
My problem is I use my atv when cutting wood, it has front and rear cargo boxes so you cant set a saw on it.
I also cut my stumps very close to the ground as im cutting trail/road so you cant set the saw on them either.

I've seen a video of a guy sticking the saw through a small tree at a good height to sharpen it, that might work for me but I haven't tried it yet.

 

[holeycow]

Just set it in your lap. It becomes natural.

That being said, I find my self more and more looking for something bench-height to set it on, which is changing my “natural”, Ive noticed.

 

[CR888]

I think guides are OK for those learning to file, they can help minimise wrong practice. But there kinda like training wheels on a kids bike that should be discarded once a certain level of competency is reached. It can be a tough gig learning to file by yourself, anything that can make that process a little easier is not a bad idea IMO.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Filing is a very personal thing and hard to describe in words. It’s a lot like playing a stringed instrument and hitting the right note.
I’ve been hand filing for 40 years now, so I’m definitely the John Fogerty of filing.
I learned by trial and error and from better filers than I am.

 

[Philbert]

I cant seam to find something to set the saw on when I need to sharpen it in the woods.
My problem is I use my atv when cutting wood, it has front and rear cargo boxes so you cant set a saw on it.

Bore cutting into a stump is a good way to hold the guide bar stable when filing.

I like something to keep the chain from moving, and to use two hands on the file to guide it straight. Something like these could be mounted on your ATV boxes?

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/tree-machine-filing-clamps.240030/

Philbert

 

[pioneerguy600]

One winter I worked as part of a 5 man team cutting mainly spruce logs here in NS. The skidder op was an older guy so we let him just run the skidder, and we would take turns as choke setters. He would gladly file saw chains while waiting for the chokers to be set, he would stand the saw upright, rear tank handle between his legs, bar straight up and do one on the finest chain sharpening most had ever seen or used. I like my bar horizontal but don`t need it clamped, hold the chain with my left hand fingers and file with my right when done out in the field.

 

[holeycow]

The only guide I’ve seen that looks possibly worthwhile is the Oregon? (Husky?) “ rollerguide as it actually “guides” and isn’t just a thing that shows you the angles but still has to be guided.

It’s actually a pretty cool little gadget. I’m pretty sure I don’t want one, as the fellow I know who always uses one ( and he’s become pretty handy with it) still doesn’t create very sharp chains. Pretty durable, but not very sharp.

 

[madmarksolomon]

One winter I worked as part of a 5 man team cutting mainly spruce logs here in NS. The skidder op was an older guy so we let him just run the skidder, and we would take turns as choke setters. He would gladly file saw chains while waiting for the chokers to be set, he would stand the saw upright, rear tank handle between his legs, bar straight up and do one on the finest chain sharpening most had ever seen or used. I like my bar horizontal but don`t need it clamped, hold the chain with my left hand fingers and file with my right when done out in the field.

I’v only seen one guy in my career file chain like that with same results. I tried it with little success. By chance was his name Tom.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I’v only seen one guy in my career file chain like that with same results. I tried it with little success. By chance was his name Tom.

He is the only one I ever seen do this but have heard of others that could do the same. His name was Eric Smith, passed away 14 years back.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

A Granberg File-n-Joint guide is a great way to learn what's involved with free hand filing and filing/grinding in general. Most guys will shrug it off because it takes some time to set up and those guys don't need one anyway..., which is the point if you're asking the types of questions listed in the first post of this thread. It requires you to set it up correctly in order to obtain useful results, which in turn educates the user on all the main elements involved when attempting to get a sharp cutting tooth by whatever means. It will help make sense out of how most other jigs, filing techniques, and even grinders work once a fundamental understanding of the variables has been established. I learned on one and it helped me understand how chain filing works fairly quickly and allowed me to get into free hand filing with much more confidence and much more quickly than would have been the case otherwise.

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