Filing with a file 1 size up?

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MAWoodsman

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I picked up an Echo 4910 that calls doe a 3/16 file. Im new to filing, so im still working on getting it down.
However, i noticed i was getting quite a bit of hook on my top plate with the 3/16 file. So I grabbed a 7/32 file and tried that. It brought the top plate back perfect and the gullet and side plate looks good to. Ive been using the 7/32 ever since.

Is there anything wrong with doing this? Does anyone else here do the same thing?
 
@Philbert will hopefully have some wise words to share on the subject for you.
In the meantime, my input is as follows...
The ideal size of file depends not only on the manufacturers recommendation but how much hook you are wanting to achieve, how far into the gullet you are wanting to file & how much of the tooth has been filed. It's not uncommon to either start filing a new chain with a size above the recommend or finish filing a chain at the end of it's life with an undersized file. Generally the chain manufacturer would expect you to use their recommend file & raise or lower it in the tooth to achieve the correct hook. Different strokes for different folks, my suggestion is if it's working well for you stick with it.
On a side note, if you post a pic or 2 of your chain you may get some additional input
 
Consider the manufacturer’s specs as ‘starting points’. Then adjust to what suits you.

Some people like a more aggressive or less aggressive chain. The type of wood that you are cutting also matters. STIHL and Oregon recommend different size files for their 3/8” pitch chain, so the brand of the chain can also matter.

If you are happy how it cuts, stick with it.

Philbert
 
I was thinking the same as what you suggested. As the chain is filed back, i will likely switchback to the 3/16 as it nears the end of its life. Im mostly cutting Oak and Maple. To much hook and shes definitely to grabby.

Here is a close up of a couple links. There is a slight burr on the rear gullet, which cleans up after the first cut.
 

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Is there anything wrong with doing this? Does anyone else here do the same thing?
The last half a year or so I have been using the Husqvarna roller guide(s) and the file size I like the percentage of the file that is above the top plate. I have a bunch of files, of different makes and it seems I have a choice for about every 10 thousands of an inch. Perhaps they are labeled in both metric and fraction but the maker can choose which to be precise with. For the Stihl 23rspro a somewhat larger file, than the suggested 3/16", that fits in the hole on the side but only the smooth part, roller guide for sp33 chain. I think that chain likely has a bit higher cutters than what you have.

As to if there is anything wrong hard to say.
 
What you described mostly happens when freehand filing just using the file with a handle on it. No device to set filing depth in relation to cutter height. That's how I learned to file
How much up/down pressure you use on each stoke determines how much hook/gullet you'll have.
Actually this is quite true in terms of the size of file does not matter. I can use a very small file and create a good cutting edge but a larger file that fits the cutting teeth better will produce a much nicer result. I use 7/32 files on just about every thing including my 404 chain. When I want a more blunt edge for very dry dirty wood I might not push towards the gullet as much. Remember address the rakers to get the perfect amount of self feed. And if the rakers are too shallow it will cause the cutters to skim over the wood more making sharpening more frequent. Thanks
 
I find the whole gullet thing confusing...or maybe I don't. When you file the hook the gullet rises up and eventially then from time to time you need to file the gullet back down.
1) So, why not use a file thats big enough to do the hook and also goes down into the gullet?
2) Is this because of the angle that it would cut the hook at? I think thats the answer but I want to be sure.
4) The file specified by the manufacturer dictates the proper hook angle, so when you use a next size up file aren't you diminishing the effect of the cutting hook?
 
13/64 is the next step between 3/16 and 7/32".
Same that 11/64 is in between 5/32-3/16.
Thanks for noting that. It is easy to get lost in all the available file diameters, especially, when some are quoted in metric sizes.

I find it easiest to convert them all to 64th’s of an inch to compare:

10/64 (5/32”)
11/64 (4.0 mm)
12/64 (3/16”)
13/64 (4.5 mm)
14/64 (7/32”)

Some are harder to find at local stores, but available from better on-line sources.

As @Ted Jenkins notes, file positioning is also a factor. So, it is important to use the corresponding file guide for each size file, if you want to achieve the intended profile, if you are not free-hand filing.

Philbert
 
I find the whole gullet thing confusing...or maybe I don't. When you file the hook the gullet rises up and eventially then from time to time you need to file the gullet back down.
1) So, why not use a file thats big enough to do the hook and also goes down into the gullet?
2) Is this because of the angle that it would cut the hook at? I think thats the answer but I want to be sure.
3) The file specified by the manufacturer dictates the proper hook angle?
4) So when you use a next size up file aren't you diminishing the effect of the cutting hook?

You have a few main angles when filing cutters. Some of the terms can get confusing:

The side plate cutting bevel angle is determined by the angle of the file, when viewed from above (typically 30°).

The top plate cutting bevel (typically 60°) is determined by the diameter of the file, and the height at which it is held.

The ‘hook’ (depth of side plate ’C’ profile) determines how much time the top plate edge has in the wood fibers before the side plate edges start to sever them. This affects how ‘grabby’ the chain will be, how much it ‘self-feeds’, etc. Deep hooks often result in shallower top plate cutting bevels, which will not hold up as long.

The gullet essentially cleans up the sides of the kerf in the wood, and helps to clear chips.

Then there is the depth gauge height, which determines how deep of a bite each cutter will take.

Once you understand this, you can use any size round, flat, triangular, or trapezoidal shaped files to achieve your desired results. You can use rotary stones or shaped grinding wheels.

Using the ‘recommended’ diameter file, in an appropriate file guide, makes this stuff much easier.

The key thing is knowing what you want your cutters to look like when finished. Kind of like Mr. Miyagi in ‘The Karate Kid’.

Philbert
 
I find the whole gullet thing confusing...or maybe I don't. When you file the hook the gullet rises up and eventially then from time to time you need to file the gullet back down.
1) So, why not use a file thats big enough to do the hook and also goes down into the gullet?
2) Is this because of the angle that it would cut the hook at? I think thats the answer but I want to be sure.
4) The file specified by the manufacturer dictates the proper hook angle, so when you use a next size up file aren't you diminishing the effect of the cutting hook?
Manufacturers dictate the proper file for the average consumer, basically telling them what the proper file diameter for that pitch chain , There’s many different ways to costume file a chain experience is the key using different diameters files and angles if ur a professional faller depending on the wood and conditions
 
I picked up an Echo 4910 that calls doe a 3/16 file. Im new to filing, so im still working on getting it down.
However, i noticed i was getting quite a bit of hook on my top plate with the 3/16 file. So I grabbed a 7/32 file and tried that. It brought the top plate back perfect and the gullet and side plate looks good to. Ive been using the 7/32 ever since.

Is there anything wrong with doing this? Does anyone else here do the same thing?
Guess the answer is in which bar/ chain you are running? (which may/ may not be factory?) Larger file= Less acute angle= less delicate, = (stays sharp longer, but not quite as sharp as the smaller file) if this makes sense to you?
 

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