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Recent Pics from Colorado Springs

WHY do people KEEP BUILDING IN THE WORST POSSIBLE PLACES?!? Look at that slope and those fuels! That's no place to put a road, much less a home, much less a whole subdivision! Here's hoping there aren't a thousand lawsuits as soon as the ashes cool.

You can apply that to any number of living situations..why do people build right on the gulf coast where you dang sure are gonna get nailed with a hurricane now and then..or in tornado alley, or big river flood plains, or in big potential earthquake country...why do people insist on building or remodeling and living in major urban areas with all the crime??? Or suburbia which has none of the advantages of rural living, nor urban???

People want to live where they want to live, and we all got to live someplace, and every place you can name has a potential major natural catastrophic threat associated with it, fires, floods ice storms blizzards, big winds, shakers, whatever..
 
3 from today:

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I think it will be. I noticed you got a new North Unit Forester which I think is going to work out well.

The Forest Service in your area just cut 16 permanent staff positions and 43 seasonal firefighter positions and obsoleted 22 major pieces of equipment. The equipment will be sold at auction to private bidders. The directive from the Obama administration now is "use more contractors" in all phases of land management, including fire. This is a repeat of the 1999-2002 scenario which included Title 3 and Title 4 amendments to the national fire plan. We all know how that turned out.

Larson is already doing a good job up North. Cleaning house more or less. After this fire season there are already two FO's looking for different jobs. The North side has always had a bad wrap sheet. Im just glad Larson is adjusting fire.

I the other hand. I was rather shocked about what Tiller has this year. I know our mutal repsonce area with them his increased significantly this summer. As well to our responces in actual towns and communities for fires inside of their limits. Things are changing. For good or bad, I cant tell. But something has to be done with our "upper" management in Roseburg. Cant squeeze blood from a stone.
 
Yah, but it is in fairly open country--if the wind will stop. I was wondering if it was your smoke drifting in here but we had easterly winds and there was a fire on the other side of the pass.
 
That one by Cle Elum is gonna be a big deal, I think -- it's been a few years since they've had a fire there, lots of Seattleites have moved in, and the beetle-kill is thicker than green timber.

And, then, there's this, from NOAA:

...VERY DRY WITH UNSTABLE SURFACE CONDITIONS EXPECTED THURSDAY AND
FRIDAY...

.A STRONG SURFACE THERMAL TROUGH WILL DEVELOP OVER NORTHWESTERN
OREGON BEGINNING LATE WEDNESDAY THEN SHIFT NORTHWARD THURSDAY AND
FRIDAY. THIS WILL BRING PARTICULARLY UNSTABLE SURFACE CONDITIONS ON
TOP OF VERY DRY RELATIVE HUMIDITY.

...FIRE WEATHER WATCH IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING THROUGH
FRIDAY EVENING FOR HOT AND DRY CONDITIONS FOR FIRE WEATHER ZONES
OR602...WA602...603...604...604...605...606...607...608 AND 660...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN PORTLAND HAS ISSUED A FIRE
WEATHER WATCH FOR HOT AND DRY CONDITIONS...WHICH IS IN EFFECT
FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING THROUGH FRIDAY EVENING.

* AFFECTED AREA...FIRE WEATHER ZONES 602...602...603...604...
604...605...606...607...608 AND 660.

* HAINES...MID-LEVEL HAINES OF 5 WEDNESDAY INCREASING TO 6
THURSDAY AND FRIDAY.

* RELATIVE HUMIDITY...AS LOW AS 19 PERCENT.

* IMPACTS...SIGNIFICANT INSTABILITY COMBINED WITH VERY LOW
HUMIDITY MAY RESULT IN EXPLOSIVE FIRE GROWTH FOR EXISTING FIRES.
Instructions: A FIRE WEATHER WATCH MEANS THAT CRITICAL FIRE WEATHER
CONDITIONS ARE FORECAST TO OCCUR. LISTEN FOR LATER FORECASTS AND POSSIBLE
RED FLAG WARNINGS.
Target Area: Central Oregon Cascade Foothills
East Slopes of the Central Oregon Coast Range
Mt. Hood National Forest - West of Cascade Crest
North Oregon Cascade Foothills
North Oregon Coast Range
Willamette National Forest
Willamette Valley
 
We've got a biggun going right now; burned area as of 2230 last night was around 2500 acres. It's pretty much contained, but we'll be burning out some more today for a likely total near 3000 acres. Weird winds are contributing to the fire activity in addition to the hot and dry weather. Got some cutting to do now.
 
Larson is already doing a good job up North. Cleaning house more or less. After this fire season there are already two FO's looking for different jobs. The North side has always had a bad wrap sheet. Im just glad Larson is adjusting fire.

I the other hand. I was rather shocked about what Tiller has this year. I know our mutal repsonce area with them his increased significantly this summer. As well to our responces in actual towns and communities for fires inside of their limits. Things are changing. For good or bad, I cant tell. But something has to be done with our "upper" management in Roseburg. Cant squeeze blood from a stone.

Well, Todd is the man to handle anything in the Tiller area. I've worked with him a lot and I really like him and how he runs things. He's laid back enough to get along with anyone but has a ton of fire knowledge. The Forest Service is going to continue to run into problems with how things are shaking out.

BTW- I noticed you guys have a former engine boss who is now driving for Fedex. I was shocked to see that. I worked for him on that Stouts Creek complex back in '01 and it went good for me and my crew.
 
We told him we had a list of safety concerns and mitigations if he would like to hear them. We read him our list and he said they have a different set of values and do things differently.

This is why NWCG qualifications are enforced at every level of every organization. We DON'T get to have "different values" or "do things differently". That IC needs fired.

However, it's up to each firefighter to look out for their own and their crew's safety. It's too easy to blame a shoddy IC. The crews on the ground bear their own responsibility as well. The hotshot crew that refused unnecessary hazard did so correctly and in accordance with all applicable training and documentation. The crew that accepted hazard also did so correctly. It's up to both leaders and followers to make these decisions in the best interest of all involved.

Accidents happen. We do try to prevent them, but sometimes they happen anyway. That's why they're called "accidents".

EDIT: the comments attached to that article are calling for Involuntary Manslaughter charges to be raised against the Potlach IC? That seems a bit out of touch. What about the rest of the folks in the chain-of-command who didn't step up? Certainly the news of a hotshot crew refusing an assignment wasn't unknown in those parts. I'd like to see the write-up that follows this incident to know where the real breakdown was.
 
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EDIT: the comments attached to that article are calling for Involuntary Manslaughter charges to be raised against the Potlach IC? That seems a bit out of touch. What about the rest of the folks in the chain-of-command who didn't step up? Certainly the news of a hotshot crew refusing an assignment wasn't unknown in those parts. I'd like to see the write-up that follows this incident to know where the real breakdown was.

Will it go to the courts like the Thirty Mile fatalities did? The fallout from the Thirty Mile lawsuits and court action got a few folks to turn down fire assignments or give it up, or shop for liability insurance. They refused to be crewbosses anymore. Some good, experienced people got out of fire fighting because of that.
 
Will it go to the courts like the Thirty Mile fatalities did? The fallout from the Thirty Mile lawsuits and court action got a few folks to turn down fire assignments or give it up, or shop for liability insurance. They refused to be crewbosses anymore. Some good, experienced people got out of fire fighting because of that.

Government BS. They close roads, don't allow access for firewood harvesting or logging so many places. They have mass quantities of fuel, cubic miles of the stuff, sit there and die, then you have constant forest fires. They could use all this dry dead wood in coal burning electrical plants with some modifications. They could set up via tax incentives, cost them not a penny of taxpayer money, mass biochar facilities, allowing entrepeneurs to put a lot more people back to work, and provide low cost long term great farmland subsoil fertilizer, any number of things. But nope, just let it accumulate and then catch fire, then cobjob and lowball any response because all the major taxpayer loot goes to fight wall street wars of aquisition and other sorts of obvious corporate welfare.

Freaking EPA forces manufacturers to ship two stroke tools with carbs that are guaranteed to destroy that tool without modifications that most people don't know about, yet let all these western lands burn up year after year after decade after genertation, billions of tons of smoke/particles/gasses into the atmosphere, with nothing to show for it, except for expense and forcing unnecessary danger on the guys tasked with fighting these fires!

Ya'all remember some years back they let those firefighters burn up because they wouldn't allow the tanker helos to suck water from a stream with some endangered minnow?

That's the government people are working for. I wouldn't do it, not with policies like that.

If you ain't a globalist fatcat, you ain't squat to them people. They don't care.

I am not anti government at all, but I am for sure anti stupid bloated wasteful criminal crooked corrupt riddled with junk science and crony fatcat welfare brand government.
 
Ya'all remember some years back they let those firefighters burn up because they wouldn't allow the tanker helos to suck water from a stream with some endangered minnow?

They let those firefighters burn up? Maybe you should cite the incident you're referring to. There have been some deaths, no argument there, but I don't remember anybody letting anybody burn up.

And as far as not being able to draw water from anyplace because of a minnow...once again we'll need some specific instances.
 
They let those firefighters burn up? Maybe you should cite the incident you're referring to. There have been some deaths, no argument there, but I don't remember anybody letting anybody burn up.

And as far as not being able to draw water from anyplace because of a minnow...once again we'll need some specific instances.

It was like a decade ago, but I will try to find the reference. There was a lot of discussion on the net at the time of it happening, but I don't have that at my fingertips right now. Gist of it was they got cutoff, trapped, had some sort of emergency covers they could throw over themselves,like metallic blankets?? Not sure on that.. They called in for a water drop around them. The gov suits/straw bosses/commissars dithered on where they could pick up water, they sent the helos farther away then the closest source. They croaked, water didn't get to them in time. I will look and see if I can find the real story., if I do find it I will update this post.

edit:OK, this is the best I can do right now, my memory wasn't too bad.

Original story

Government lets 8 people burn to death in order to save fish - Family, Friends, Firearms

Government investigates itself, finds "nothing to see here, move along now"

Report Shows That Endangered Species Act and Endangered Trout and Salmon Were Not REsponsible for Firefighter Deaths | Trout Unlimited - Conserving coldwater fisheries
 
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