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SrChf

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
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Location
Edgewater, MD
Hi all. First post here. Nice forum you all have here. Thanks for having me.

I bought just shy of 5 acres of wooded land in Edgewater MD. The front center of the lot is cleared and a 1977 era house is on it. I have been mulling the idea of having the back lot of woods thinned out some. It is pretty dense and the trees, mostly very tall, very straight tulip poplar, with some tall oak, beech, gum and even some walnut (I think) mixed in. Most of the trees are at least 80' high. Avg circumference at the bases are between 4 and 7 feet around.

I found an appraiser off the Maryland DNR website, and he came out to look at my property. After we walked the property lines he estimated he could take about 60 trees and pay me between $7000 and $8000 for them all, taking 10% off the top for marking and cataloging the trees (by species and size) arranging the deal, running a silent auction, running the permits w/ the county etc. This estimate was based on 20 cents per board foot of lumber he thought could be extracted from the trees which he admitted is rather low but said that the market was low right now.

He also said there would be a limited liability contract that would cover basic accident/injury/property damage, but said specifically it would NOT cover any damage the 80,000 lb rig that would drive down my asphalt drive may do to it and any damage the tree skidders may do to the edges of my asphalt drive.

Question is twofold. Does this sound like a fair deal? Most of the other foresters I talked to were not even interested in coming out since I had such a small amount of land, so I am kind of at this guys mercy if I go through with it.

And do these log haulers generally mess up private asphalt drives. I can say, I didn't hire the best company to do this drive, so I am a little leary of its ability to hold up. Is it worth the risk you think? I paid about 7000 for the drive.

Thanks y'all for any advice you can give and I look forward to hearing from you.

Jb
 
I wouldn't do it. after seeing the mess they left when grandpa sold off some trees in our timber it's just not worth it unless you want the land completely clearcut and don't care anything about the path they use to get to the land.

Do you burn wood? sounds like a good reason to start.
 
If you can not find an alternate route they will destroy your drive, buy a saw and do it a little at a time.
 
20 cents a bf for hardwoods? No way. Also, regarding the driveway: treat it as a right-of-way that the crew must maintain and repair. Have the easement written up beforehand. I'd be shooting for at least half again that.

I can't find current numbers for MD, but here's Q4 2010 for PA, broken down by quadrant. You should expect your timber pricing to be similar. Assume medium or average values for uncruised estimates.

I don't know anything about your local market so I can't offer you better information. There are several others here who live and work near your region who should know much more useful local information than I have available.
 
I wouldn't do it. after seeing the mess they left when grandpa sold off some trees in our timber it's just not worth it unless you want the land completely clearcut and don't care anything about the path they use to get to the land.

Do you burn wood? sounds like a good reason to start.

He did say they would leave about a foot of stump for each tree AND the tops which sounds pretty ugly however, the land is shaped in that it has a large and wide hill behind the house to where you cant see anything past the hill, even from my back porch. My thought was to let them thin the area behind the hill so even if they left it a mess I wouldnt see it unless I went looking for it...

I do burn wood. I have a STIHL MS660, lots of manual splitting implements, a Hearthstone Clydesdale Woodstove and a regular fireplace. Keeps the old body in shape and cuts my winter electric bill in half but I have way more than I could burn - unless I live past 100.
 
20 cents a bf for hardwoods? No way. Also, regarding the driveway: treat it as a right-of-way that the crew must maintain and repair. Have the easement written up beforehand. I'd be shooting for at least half again that.

I can't find current numbers for MD, but here's Q4 2010 for PA, broken down by quadrant. You should expect your timber pricing to be similar. Assume medium or average values for uncruised estimates.

I don't know anything about your local market so I can't offer you better information. There are several others here who live and work near your region who should know much more useful local information than I have available.

No doubt. 20 cents fb for all that big pretty hardwood he has. have some fun and do it your self a little at a time.
 
20 cents a bf for hardwoods? No way.

Thanks for the reply.

so, @ 20c/LF he is way overquoting me then?

Looking at the link you sent, after reading it through, tell me if I understand it right...

I'll use the yellow poplar as an example.

For NORTHEAST PA

"Yellow-Poplar = Minus: 83 / Avg: 148 / Plus: 213 (4) $ per MBF (Which I guess is 1000 Board Feet, M representing Millenia or 1000?)

So the three numbers represent low, average and high quality? and the (#) represents the number of reports mills offered to get this number, right?

So in this case, for my yellow poplar, I'd get somewhere between 8.3 and 21.3 cents per LF in Pennsylvania, depending on the quality?

On the upper end of the scale, it shows Northern Red Oak as between 23c to 45c per LF.

Assuming I understand this market report right, maybe he was averaging out all the species and quality he saw on my property?
 
He did say they would leave about a foot of stump for each tree AND the tops which sounds pretty ugly however, the land is shaped in that it has a large and wide hill behind the house to where you cant see anything past the hill, even from my back porch. My thought was to let them thin the area behind the hill so even if they left it a mess I wouldnt see it unless I went looking for it..[/QUOTEE]
It's not just the tops and the stumps. it's all the decent non-millable trees that they take down to get to the agreed upon trees. and the ruts, can't forget those. I'm not trying to talk you out of it, just letting you know our experience.
 
Madhatte provided a good link. Take a look at the western PA reports and seasonal price plots. Lot of price swings going on.
Some has to do with logging conditions. Some with demand.
Ask around to get a better idea of when.

You could also look into harvest based on shares, but that usually pays off (for you) only if there are enough high grade.

20 cents are tie numbers.

fwiw

btw, wv stumpage report
 
Also consider that State stumpage and mill reports are weighted averages over the listed time periods and geographical regions. Any given timber sale may vary wildly from that reported value. If I had a LogLines account I could give you real numbers, but, alas, it's expensive, and wouldn't cover your region anyway. Perhaps something similar is available for the Mid-Atlantic states?
 
Just call your local saw mill and ask what hardwood is bringing.

Yep. Tried that before posting here and twice again today. They didnt answer their phone :msp_confused: guess they cant hear the ringer over the din of sawmillin':msp_unsure:lol.
 
No doubt. 20 cents fb for all that big pretty hardwood he has. have some fun and do it your self a little at a time.

That actually sounds really cool. All I have is an F350 and a good chainsaw right now. I could see starting small with something cheap that I could haul one good high value log to the mill at a time, then use the proceeds to upgrade to bigger and better equipment over time eventually getting a nice home mill set up.

So, what is the minimum more I would need to be able to haul even just one large log to the mill at a time. Nearest mill is 13 miles away.
 
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So, what is the minimum more I would need to be able to haul even just one large log to the mill at a time. Nearest mill is 13 miles away.

Got a good saw? Why not bring the mill to the log? There's a whole forum here on the subject of milling, and lots of knowledge to be tapped on the subject.
 
You know, thinking about your post and some others -- particularly the horse post -- got me thinking...(and realize I'm just a landowner like you, though I have a place for a good landing if I chose to log; but I'm pretty sure I never will -- whoever inherits this place will get one heck of a nice stand of timber after I'm done thinning out all the firewood-quality trees)

Your situation is probably one well suited for either a horse logger or ATV logger, either of which I'm guessing will do less damage to your driveway (especially if it's an ATV and the logs are fully suspended by an arch). Shod horse hoofs dragging logs, I'm not so sure about.

If you have a landing area right by the road so a grapple truck could either load roadside or just back in one truck length, that would avoid having 60,000# over most of your driveway. Possibly go in search of some construction ground pads to rent (not sure if just plywood is enough) that would distribute the weight even more to keep the tires from forming a rut for the little bit he backs in.

Since you have the saw, you can fell and top the trees yourself. I know there are some tricks to deciding where to cut up the logs -- sometimes it's better to make a higher grade 8' then a lower grade 12'. I certainly don't know how to grade them, but someone with an experienced eye could guide you and probably make some chalk marks where to cut.

I also don't know how longs logs can reasonably be left on the ground. A wouldn't think a few months would hurt them, and that's plenty of time for someone retired just doing them catch-as-catch can to get them ready (provided no health problems or such unexpected stuff pops up).

Once everything, or at least a grapple truck load, is ready then hire the horse or ATV logger to come in for a day or two and skid everything out to the landing.

I'd find that logger first to make sure there is one around, and make sure this plan makes half a lick of sense to them. They should have some contacts for grapples and the mills and such, too.

I think some rule-of-thumbs guesstimates is 5 acres, a horse logger should be able to bring out about 3 MBF (thousand board feet) a day, maybe 4. A triaxle grapple should hold a bit more then 4.5 MBF worth of logs.

Just going off some prices I've seen over the years, no idea for your area, I'm guessing that's about $500 for a horse logger (I'm assuming ATV guys similar), $250 for the trucking, if you get $0.30/bf delivered to the mill that would be $1,350 - 500 - 250 = $500 profit. Plus the tops should be good for a couple, three cords of firewood.

The real loggers may now proceed to shoot holes in my idea :hmm3grin2orange:
 
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