First Post -- Mac and Mill

[Riddler]

After lurking for awhile, I figure I ought to dive right in with a couple of questions that have been on my mind for some time. For about a year now, I have been enjoying getting to know a newly acquired country place that has about 20 acres of woodland populated by a mix of redwood, doug fir, oak, pacific madrone and bay trees. The prior owner was a logger by trade, but he did little in the last 20 years of his life to manage the forested areas. Hence, I have a alot of "catch up" to do.

Fortunately, a number of fallen or near fallen trees are not all he left behind. Comfortably sitting in the hay barn are four mid to late 50's Macs, three of which appear complete or virtually complete. The three are a 35, a Super 44 and a 99. They turn over well and demonstrate good compression. I have not gone through them yet with an eye toward trying to start any of them. The unit that is missing a few pieces is a 7-55. There also are half dozen or so longer chain bars (e.g., 30" to 72"). Unfortunately, all but a few have a decent amount of superficial rust on them.

My only chain saw experience to date has been with an easy-to-use, late-model 45cc Homelite with a 20" bar. Hence, the first question that has been on my mind is whether any of the old Macs would be truly useful (and, hopefully, enjoyable to operate) if I invested the time to get them running well. Of the three, the Super 44 looks to have the most useful combination of features. Is the weight to power ratio of this old machine just too out of line to make it a practically useful tool? I am hoping that some folks who have been bitten previously with the restoration "bug" will chime in with some honest advice about what to expect.

The second question is somewhat related to the first. I want to start experimenting with some form of chain saw mill. The Alaskan looks appealing, particularly given it modest cost, but I don't have a running saw at the moment to mate with it. Is the Super 44 (or even the 99) completely out of the question? If so, what would be some cost effective (used perhaps??), yet reasonably effective, machines that I might use with the Alaskan or other portable mill? Also, any advice on what brand and model of mill to seriously consider would be most welcome.

 

[Oregon_Native]

I haven't had any experience with those saw but as all old saw's they are big heavy and noisy but that is half the fun and parts are getting harder and harder to find if you are looking for a work saw ether find a newer saw 70's era or newer or you could buy a new saw. ask around hear and you get a few answers most will like: sthil, husky, dolmar, jonserd, and the others to but i would stay away from any thing you could buy from a "big box" store. find your local dealers and talk to all of them before you buy find the saw and dealer you like.

i know all the mac saw collectors are wanting to see pictures of the saws and bars you have and if you want to sell we might jump on the deal.

i am not a pro just a saw user that like good/old saw's.

 

[Oregon_Native]

I thought all the other saw experts would have chimed in by now i guess they are to bussey with other things.

 

[Tree Machine]

Addressing then milling part of the question

There are many guys here who have extensive experience in logging and milling, much more so than I. I have just enough experience milling to know how hard it is. I bought a full size Alaskan mill with a 5' dual-ended bar and ripping chains. I plugged a Husky 394 onto each end of the bar, thinking I was going to rock and roll.

I milled logs OK, but it took two people, and took me out of the climbing aspect (meaning income dropped precipitously). Also, you make one heck of a lot of sawdust. It was gratifying making boards out of logs, but physically, it is quite strenuous on both operators, then you had to clean up, THEN you had to transport, stack and sticker the planks. My vision of it was quite different than the actual reality of it. It was anything but pizzas and fairytales.

Now I store and stage logs. Once or twice a year I have a guy come in with a Woodmizer LT-40 Super hydraulic and he's cutting as fast as I can tail. It's still a lot of work, but I have a LOT of planks, clean and custom-cut in the course of just one day, no ripping chains to sharpen, no adjusting and readjusting the chain tension on the long bar, no repetitive refills of gas and oil, and a LOT less sawdust to deal with. Imagine hitting a nail and having to sharpen a 5-foot long loop. At $60 an hour and he comes to my place, its an absolute bargain. The only way cheaper is to just buy the lumber from a mill, but that may ignore the actual point of your milling the wood yourself.

Would you like to buy my Alaskan? It has very little use on it.

 

[Oregon_Native]

Old Mac Saws?

you have a good collection there the 99 is definitely not a one man saw i don't care if it has the handles for it.
The problem with these saw is that they really cant compete in weight and power with even the saws mac built in the 70's.
I have a pro mac 610 (60cc 20" bar built in the late 70's) that is just light enough that i can use it for a wile but those older saw's unless you have a truck or an ATV to carry them around for you your going to get tired fast.

as for milling with them the 44 might work for a wile but milling is really hard on the crank and its bearings, it also builds heat really quick in the engine.

if you are looking for a milling saw look for the largest displacement husky or sthil saws you can find used or not, some ware in the 75-100+ cc range.

hear are link's to a collector page for your saws

the 33 http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...7e0630b1c9171fef88256b0000653812?OpenDocument

the super 44
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...f776601d358f517f88256b000067d97a?OpenDocument

the 99
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...09deb093d8c9ebff88256b000059fe8e?OpenDocument

 

[weimedog]

I guess you never know until you try.

My guess is the 44 doesn't have the power you want to mill. Its a 72cc saw of that era. Probable will cut with a 50cc saw of today..and thats not enough. From what I have spent time with, a saw in the power class of an old 82cc Homelite XL-925 is about the minimum you want for milling. That would translate over to a 87cc McCulloch 440 class saw or even maybe an old 80cc Super 55 if the fifties are the target for collection. I have no idea where a 35 fits into the equation. They were a 54cc goofy gear drive thing. Never even saw one run.

If you had a willing partner, my bet is that 99 would do the trick quite well for milling. Its something like 161cc's and has the power to pull a big bar. I think the 7-55 is an older version of the 99. 161cc motor and all. Both would certainly pull a bar long enough for milling. Just have to have someone on the other end as my bet is they are 65-70lbs after you strap a mill on that monster.

One thing I have found is that the older saws with the wide power bands do well even as compared to the new saws in the milling situation. When the blade speed drops they keep on pulling. I haven't seen problems with my bottom ends on the three or four old saws I have milled with. The only place I saw accellerated wear was the clutchs on my 797. That motor won't quit pulling and the clutch takes a beating. Its a very strong saw. Even by todays standards. Don't buy the crap where its got to be a modern brands/design to have power. Some of those old McCullochs have serious power...the right kind for milling. (anything I have run in the 100cc class and larger certainly do)

Chainsaw milling isn't for the feint of heart. Its hard work. Setup right it doesn't have to be a miserable task..just a workout. I do a fair amount with a old 1967 era McCulloch 797.. and its been really fun and rewarding for me. Its a way to test a saw and a reason to build and play with those old monsters that make up my hobbie. One of the few hobby's that actually gives a return on investment. AND I can pruduce enough lumber fast enough to enable project we could NEVER of afforded otherwize.

last weekend I was looking for something to do with a Homelite C-7 I had put together...milling a couple of 14ft long by 28-30inch wide planks did the trick and added to my wood stack to renovate our barn. (The C-7 is an old early 1960's 80cc class saw..and its as small as I would consider power wize for milling)

That McCulloch 44 you have probably would be a really nice firewood and felling saw for medium sized trees. You might be suprised at how well it will perform when you tune it right and put on a good chain....my Homelite C-71 was a revelation(Its a Homelite of a similar design era). Actually a very capable saw. Even by todays standards if you can over look its extra 2-3lbs of weight.

I would say if you like tinkering with mechanical things..your going to have a blast getting those McCullochs to a productive state..and it will cost a FRACTION of what a new saw would cost...AND you have ownership in the results making the use & realizing the productive results more rewarding. Parts have been readily available so far for all my old project saws. Sometime I can (If I have the patients) grab stuff off eBay..but most of the time I call a few places the specialise in old Homelites&McCullochs. So far everything I wanted was a phone call and a couple of days away.

Its where you are in life and in attitude that either makes Chainsaw Milling the right way to go or an in-efficient waste of time. To me its an extension of a hobby therefore a great way to express the hobby.....It allows the production of lumber from MY wood off My place in My timeframe. It also gives yet another reason (other than firewood and property cleanup) to invest in my Saw Habit. It Also gives me a workout...something I need ..but unlike most workout environments returns WOOD for the money spent so my real projects can move forward.

Go for it....I did and put my money where my heart was and I can tell you it wasn't a mistake.

 

[Riddler]

Thanks for all of the great advice. I do like tinkering with mechanical things (although no 2 cycle engine experience until now). If parts are indeed not impossible to find for the 44 and the 99, then I will make a go of it. I have a heck of a lot of wood to cut over the next few years, so I can envision lots of situations where running a vintage saw might be fun.

I also appreciate the honest comments about the physical effort and time involved in chain saw milling. If I get the 99 running well, or I come across a well priced, large, late model, used machine, I may take the plunge. Otherwise, hiring someone to come in with the right rig to mill the accumulated logs sounds better than investing $1,000 in the largest new Husky or Stihl. Over 99% of my saw time is likely to be spent downing small to medium size trees and cutting firewood. I hardly need an oversized machine for that.

When I get the hay and grime cleaned off the 35, 44 and 99, I will definitely post some photos.

 

[Lawn Masters]

Just be warned, the carb on the Mac 35, is a McCulloch brand carb, getting kits for it is like looking for a hens tooth. The same for the 99 carb, and the 7-55. In other words, you'll probably either get really lucky and find carb kits for all ofthese saws, OR, the more likely situation, you'll have to adapt a Tillotson/walbro carb of equal size for the job.

 

[weimedog]

Riddler, I bought a new Husqvarna last year to be Certain I had a saw to get the job done should my old bombers not cut it. Before you go that far consider the following:

I used it quite a bit as I was expecting an order of magnitude improvement in productivity...But then I began to use and trust some of the ones I was building. Now I only carry two or three vintage saws for even the serious work. They have proven both reliable, effective, AND (in the case of the XL-800 & 925) more productive than the Husky in big wood.

The result is I have "obsoleted" my 2004 Husky with a 1970something Homelite SXL-925 with (now) a 20inch bar for the primary saw. I carry one of the "project saws" (right now a C-7 with a couple of bars, a 36inch for milling and a 28inch for blocking). I also carry a backup that is a tried and true Homelite XL-800 as its also proven. I run the 925 if I have to get something done, no time to jerk around; and run the current "project" saw for as much else as I can...thats the fun & games.

Wouldn't suprise me to find the 44 turns into a primary saw for you. Maybe find a used Husky or Stihl if you get nervous until you have a oldy but goldy built & proven.

One thing you HAVE to invest in is a good set of chaps. Old saw don't have any of the saftey features as the new stuff and they can really bite. Hard.

(By the way, PM me if you have problem finding a source of parts for your McCulloch's..I might be able to point you in a direction that will help)
(AND there is a set of rings on Ebay for your 99 or 7-55..PM me if you can't find it)

 

[woodshop]

Its where you are in life and in attitude that either makes Chainsaw Milling the right way to go or an in-efficient waste of time. To me its an extension of a hobby therefore a great way to express the hobby.....It allows the production of lumber from MY wood off My place in My time frame. It also gives yet another reason (other than firewood and property cleanup) to invest in my Saw Habit. It Also gives me a workout...something I need ..but unlike most workout environments returns WOOD for the money spent so my real projects can move forward.

Weimedog, I couldn't have said that any better if you had a gun to my head forcing me to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing BUT the truth. Milling is at least 50% attitude. It's not for everybody, and I'm not saying those that tried and don't like it or think its an inefficient waste of time are wrong. For some folks, I can see how it would be. The key word in your blurb above is MY. Yes after spending a long day in the woods, lots of hard work, you come home with say 300 bd ft of rough lumber. It's true a local bandmill guy can slice that up for you in an hour for $60 (well...not $60 here on the east coast). My point is that lumber is all custom cut to my specs on my time frame by ME. For pennies on the dollar compared to buying even cheap wet lumber right off the mill. But its not really the money... for me (and I think I speak for weimedog too)... its just pure fun. A chance to play with my saws in the woods, and get something in return. I've cut some pretty walnut crotch stuff that looks better than the stuff that goes for $30 a foot at the specialty lumber places, but it didn't cost me but a few hours of enjoyment out in the woods. Bottom line is there are two sides to the "milling your own wood" coin.

Dave

 

[Tree Machine]

True ! I was born the son of a woodworker and have been a woodwroker my whole life. I love wood, love trees, even love milling. I switched from a 5' double-ended Alaskan mill to an Alaskan mini mill. With the mini mill I use a 24 or 36" bar, and I use regular 3/8 full chisel crosscut chain. getting the saw / mill set up is pretty quick, and the rip cutting is much faster than with ripping chain, though the surface of the cut is anything but smooth. Also it's now a one-person ordeal to open up small logs for use as benches, or crotchwood just to see what's inside.

Weimdog did put it well. There's something especially rewarding about opening up fresh wood, just you and the machine in your hands and producing dimensioned wood you can't find at the lumber yard. Also you have the pick of un-ordinary species. I love milling black locust- try finding that at the lumber yard, or even mulberry. When you slab through a big boxelder, be ready for a special surprise. If you're ever able to find a dead dogwood big enough to make boards out of, classy wood, as nice as any tropical exotic.

 

[coveredinsap]

Any of those 3 old saws would be excellent, the 35 for smaller softwoods, the 44 for medium hardwoods and large softwoods, and the 99 for the really tough stuff. The bars probably just need the rust cleaned off and they should be good to go. It sounds like you have all the equipment you need except for the Alaskan mill and maybe a few chains. The former owner sounds like he knew his stuff.

Don't let the talk of milling being 'hard work' discourage you...it's actually quite fun. It's not like you have to knock yourself out doing it, as you are your own boss. And as others have said, it's like going to a gym...good for you.

If you need a hand or some advice, feel free to give me a holler (email), I'm right next door to you right over the county line to the east (Napa Valley). I'll bring over my saws and small Alaskan mill and help you just for the fun of it ...and some of those logs, of course