Gas for milling?

[denger]

I keep reading here that people use synthetic/engineered gas (TruFuel and such) for milling. I understand that using regular gas from a pump in the US is a bad idea because of ethanol and how it separates quickly. But can I use ethanol-free gas? I can get ethanol-free in my area in marina's where it's sold for boats. Synthetic gas is just too expensive.
P.S. I use Stihl MS-660.

 

[GenXer]

Ethanol free high test works fine.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Rec 90 is fine. That is what is normally sold at marinas. Ethanol free, 90 octane.

 

[Ethobling]

I run 89 ("Plus") Octane E-free gas with a 40:1 mix with my 462, whether milling or not. If they had 91 E-free, I'd probably run that.

I get the option to buy E-free gas at my local gas station, so that's nice, especially for my '83 F100.

 

[sean donato]

I run regular pump hi test in everything, only time I worry about getting e-free gas is if it's going to sit for any amount of time. The saw will run just fine on pump gas. The sitting for months without use is what gets you in trouble. Unless it's going to sit, there's no real benefit, besides making your wallet lighter.

 

[RpR]

https://forestnet.com/TWissues/August08/chainsaw.html
Is Ethanol the Problem?
An informal survey of a dozen northwest Oregon saw shops revealed that all the shops had noticed fuel line and carburetor diaphragm issues related to ethanol. About half of the shops reported experiencing saw engine failures and suspected ethanol as the culprit.

Over the next few weeks, I sought out industry experts to try to separate myths from facts. The following information is a summation of interviews with Randy Scully, STIHL Inc. product service manager, James McNew, vice president technical affairs Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI), and Robert Reynolds, president of Downstream Alternatives, a fuels consulting company. All agreed that ethanol impacts chainsaw engine operation.

 

[Mad Professor]

I've milled a lot with a 066 using E-free pump premium.

 

[j-jock]

In addition to your comment, I haven't used my Alaska mill in awhile, but I ran a double 2100 bar on my mill, and the only gas available for awhile, was E85. I was really worried about having that fuel sitting in my equipment, or for that matter, even sitting in my fuel container.
My solution was, to add Amsoil fuel stabilizer to the mixed fuel, and that solved the problem. It stabilized the fuel well enough, that I used the fuel up long before it went bad and the water separated out.
I now have access to 90 octane marked gas (no ethanol), and I find that the fuel stays fresh much longer by using the stabilizer.
BTW: I ran my saws on the 100:1 Amsoil Sabre Two Cycle oil, and after using the saws for 10 years, I got an offer I couldn't refuse for the saws and bar. I got lonely, and replaced that setup with another pair of 2100s. I love those orange beasts.

 

[sand sock]

Never had a problem. Never had a problem. Never had a problem with normal pump gas. Fuel lines go bad and you have to change them . That's a $10. 30 minutes job.

I tried 1can of the true fuel 50:1 and that scares me. It has no color. Where is the oil? I wouldn't let the saw shop just dump gas mix in the saw. Unless he could tell me. Who mixed it up. Mix needs to be exact or just short on the gas.

 

[j-jock]

I would call replacing fuel lines, (as well as carb work on older saws) normal maintenance. and I have changed more fuel lines because of what the former owners of some of my saws have used, or how the saws were stored, than I have had to change on my own equipment.
Some of the saws I have purchased, are over 60 years old, so it isn't difficult to imagine that the fuel lines can require replacing.
One of the most common problems I have with the saws I buy, is carbon build up in the cylinder, as well as in the exhaust port. To my mind, that carbon build up, and overheating caused by running saws too lean, are the two major killers of saws. ( Scoring of the piston on the exhaust side, (with no scoring on the intake side), is the sure indicator of excessive carbon build up.

 

[cookies]

87 octane is all thats required.

 

[JRM]

Stihl recommends 89 octane in their power Saws.

 

[ericm979]

89 octrane E10 will be fine. The only potential problem is phase separation. If you use your fuel within a couple months it'll be fine. I put fuel stabilizer in mine and I have used fuel four-six months old without problem. If E0 is easy to get and does not cost much more, then use it but if it's not, E10 will be fine if you use it up relatively soon. The closest place to me to get E0 is over an hour away and it's a couple dollars a gallon more. I have used E10 for decades with no problems.

Since you're milling you will want to tune your carb rich for extra cooling. And run good quality synthetic oil, possibly at a richer oil ratio than normal.

 

[andy]

.
If I could afford to run Tru-Fuel For everything I would….the exhaust gas is much less irritating to be around than gasoline.
That said, We run E free for most stuff as it’s much much cheaper than tru-fuel and we sometimes burn a lot of fuel!

 

[j-jock]

89 octrane E10 will be fine. The only potential problem is phase separation. If you use your fuel within a couple months it'll be fine. I put fuel stabilizer in mine and I have used fuel four-six months old without problem. If E0 is easy to get and does not cost much more, then use it but if it's not, E10 will be fine if you use it up relatively soon. The closest place to me to get E0 is over an hour away and it's a couple dollars a gallon more. I have used E10 for decades with no problems.

Since you're milling you will want to tune your carb rich for extra cooling. And run good quality synthetic oil, possibly at a richer oil ratio than normal.

Another option that is available, is if you live near an airport where avgas is sold, you can buy the gas labeled as 100 low lead. I have not really kept up on how avgas is formulated, but the specifications are standardized, and in my experience as a private pilot, it was considerably more stable than automotive fuel.
At the time I was still an active pilot, none of the aviation gas contained ethanol. I can't say whether that has changed or not. Where I live, on Vancouver Island, the marked gas is 89 octane, and it does not contain ethanol.

 

[sean donato]

Another option that is available, is if you live near an airport where avgas is sold, you can buy the gas labeled as 100 low lead. I have not really kept up on how avgas is formulated, but the specifications are standardized, and in my experience as a private pilot, it was considerably more stable than automotive fuel.
At the time I was still an active pilot, none of the aviation gas contained ethanol. I can't say whether that has changed or not. Where I live, on Vancouver Island, the marked gas is 89 octane, and it does not contain ethanol.

It's alkylate fuel like aspen or Tru fuel. Just has the bonus of having lead in it.

 

[BobL]

It depends what I'm doing.

If I'm buying gas I'm going to use within a week or so I buy regular gas. If It's going to sit around for a few months I buy premium (higher octane) gas. The reason for this is, as soon as its made, gas starts to slowly lose its octane rating depending on things like temperature and exposure to air.. Gas that sits around in a mostly empty can in a hot environment will suffer more. In my home shop where the gas is store it can get to over 50ºC in summer for many days in a row.

There's also a theory that putting new gas in a can with some old gas in it can make the new gas go off faster - dumb how our that is in practice.
I used to put old mix in my old petrol powered van and top it up with fresh gas but that was long ago and now we have two diesel vehicles so that no longer an option. Now I usually dump it into my "evaporator" a open plastic container exposed to air. Evaporate it down and put teh residual into my waste oil container.

 

[lohan808]

I am lucky to have a couple of stations that sell E free gas at 90 octane. Still has detergents, but it does keep muh saws clean. I run amsoil dominator at 40:1 in my ms 660, 362c ported, and an echo 355T. Also in backpack blower br350 and 131r kombi. No problems here.

 

[Bubster]

My calculations came up with Stihl brand canned gas coming in around $31 a gallon. I can buy non-ethanol gas here for around $4.81/gallon. Add in the 2 cycle oil I can mix over 5 gallons for what they want for 1. In my personal experience,saws do run cooler on 91 octane or better, and starting in cold weather is easier. As for non E ,I can't say the saw runs any better on it, but at least the gas don't smell dead after sitting for just a week.

 

[j-jock]

My calculations came up with Stihl brand canned gas coming in around $31 a gallon. I can buy non-ethanol gas here for around $4.81/gallon. Add in the 2 cycle oil I can mix over 5 gallons for what they want for 1. In my personal experience,saws do run cooler on 91 octane or better, and starting in cold weather is easier. As for non E ,I can't say the saw runs any better on it, but at least the gas don't smell dead after sitting for just a week.

Depending on whether you live in a place where you have real winters or not. To accommodate the cold winter weather, the fuel companies do change gasoline to a winter formulation, which is more volatile for easier starting.
https://www.canadianfuels.ca/news-commentary/how-refineries-make-fuels-right-for-winter-driving/