Groundman Basic Knowlege at 3 months

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JosephLobdell

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Recently, I have been promoted to foreman of a small company. Along with the title comes some tasks that I'm finding difficult to address. That being said, what do Ya'll believe is the basic knowledge that a groundman should have learned by his 3rd month? The list below is anything but comprehensive.

My List
Port-a-wrap or similar lowering device
Knots: Timber Hitch, Cow Hitch, Clove Hitch & Slipped Variation, Running Bowline, Sheets Bend
Properly clean, dress, & sharpen a saw
Maintain equipment checklists
SAFE equipment & saw operation
General Site Awareness
Rope locations and proximity to chipper or saws
Cutting or dropping being performed
Obstacles and coworkers during lowering operations
Job site cone placement and pedestrian traffic

 
i think a standard CYA of 'other duties as assigned' is typical.
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butch-take5.jpeg
"How to be an Excellent Groundman"/Groundman's Guidebook(attached) started hear by the late Masterblaster Butch Ballowe 20yrs ago, guess returning home now.
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Gerald Beranek Author of classic "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" w/Butch
Gerry-n-Butch.jpg

Again Mr. Gerry has his foot wrapped like he did after a crane set outrigger down on it; didn't stop him from doing the 150' up and still 7' in diameter redwood poster with cast on foot!!
poster-still-7ft-diameter-at-150ft.jpg
 

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  • Ground Worker's Guidbook-Butch Ballowe.pdf
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Something that is often overlooked or just ignored is work zone safety. Your guys should know about using proper PPE - high viz vests, helmets, gloves, hearing protection, saw cut protection etc - and should have basic traffic control training. If you are doing any work that involves obstructing any part of a roadway you need to be familiar traffic control procedures and have flagger certification, and have MUTCD training for proper work zone installation, IE placement of signs, cones and flaggers. They should also have at least some familiarity with OSHA regulations so they know how to stay out of trouble if the OSHA guy drives by. In addition, a decent ground guy should be somewhat familiar with overhead electrical hazards.
 
I'd say establishing a line of communication via headset is probably a must in order to avoid any mishaps, especially if you are an established business.
 
I'd say establishing a line of communication via headset is probably a must in order to avoid any mishaps, especially if you are an established business.
Is that what some book says? A good ground person is always looking up when somebody is in the tree, and knows what to do when the guy doing the cutting needs something done....
I've worked with many of the major "established business" in my area, and nobody has ever used radios...... not that the companies would even hand them out to the employees with the expectation of having them returned in one piece, if at all......
 
Is that what some book says? A good ground person is always looking up when somebody is in the tree, and knows what to do when the guy doing the cutting needs something done....
I've worked with many of the major "established business" in my area, and nobody has ever used radios...... not that the companies would even hand them out to the employees with the expectation of having them returned in one piece, if at all......
No. Its what common sense says.

And it's what some licensed arborist does already.

Careful who you take a shot at buddy. Cause Ill make you look stupid.

And instead of trying to take a shot at me, try to think when you speak. Because how is a grounds men suppose to do any type of ground work if they are gawking at the person in the tree the entire time?
 
No. Its what common sense says.

And it's what some licensed arborist does already.

Careful who you take a shot at buddy. Cause Ill make you look stupid.

And instead of trying to take a shot at me, try to think when you speak. Because how is a grounds men suppose to do any type of ground work if they are gawking at the person in the tree the entire time?
Radios are expensive toys. There is about a 100% chance that a radio head set will last less than a couple weeks before getting sucked into a chipper, stepped on, smashed by a branch or otherwise broken or lost by a groundie.
Work zones tend to be quite loud, so hearing a radio might be problematic too.
If you are on the ground, the number one thing is watch the guy in the tree or in the bucket so you don't get something dropped on you. The ground guy is not there to do his own thing, he is there to assist the guy in the tree, haul away the branches to the chipper, handle the ropes when dropping limbs if needed etc. So, a ground guy is more often than not under the bucket or otherwise in the designated drop zone, and as a result he needs to learn to watch whats above him at all times while doing his work. Number one priority is don't get hurt.

You have zero experience by your own admission, you have never done anything resembling tree work.

Ok ill be honest. I have zero work experience when it comes to tree work. However, if you ask me about the theoretical work, Im 100% confident that I'm better than most tree businesses with years of experience.


I have more than 30 years experience doing various types of tree work, at various levels from ground guy to equipment operator to lead inspector overseeing entire projects. I have done emergency removal work in hurricanes, tornados and blizzards. Don't tell me how it works.
 
Radios are expensive toys. There is about a 100% chance that a radio head set will last less than a couple weeks before getting sucked into a chipper, stepped on, smashed by a branch or otherwise broken or lost by a groundie.
Work zones tend to be quite loud, so hearing a radio might be problematic too.
If you are on the ground, the number one thing is watch the guy in the tree or in the bucket so you don't get something dropped on you. The ground guy is not there to do his own thing, he is there to assist the guy in the tree, haul away the branches to the chipper, handle the ropes when dropping limbs if needed etc. So, a ground guy is more often than not under the bucket or otherwise in the designated drop zone, and as a result he needs to learn to watch whats above him at all times while doing his work. Number one priority is don't get hurt.

You have zero experience by your own admission, you have never done anything resembling tree work.




I have more than 30 years experience doing various types of tree work, at various levels from ground guy to equipment operator to lead inspector overseeing entire projects. I have done emergency removal work in hurricanes, tornados and blizzards. Don't tell me how it works.
I understand you have strong experience. And not much can beat a strong experience base. Which was why I lowered myself on purpose and stating upfront that I have little experience.

But I take offense to a few things you've presented on the plate here.

1. You're trying to discredit theoretical work(reading from a book). A book is written by none other than someone who's had experience just as you do. So basically you are discrediting other experienced arborist.

2. You're assuming that I'm making things up. As stated, I have little work experience, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about the trade based on what I've learned from other arborist. This assumption your are making, undermines my intelligence.

3. There are highly experienced arborist do used headsets as a core part of their gear. Not just any headsets, but very expensive headsets. I'm not going to go into the nuances of how its used properly, but based on how these experienced arborists uses them, I simply don't see how you could not have them, especially when doing heavy tree work.
 
Recently, I have been promoted to foreman of a small company. Along with the title comes some tasks that I'm finding difficult to address. That being said, what do Ya'll believe is the basic knowledge that a groundman should have learned by his 3rd month? The list below is anything but comprehensive.

My List
Port-a-wrap or similar lowering device
Knots: Timber Hitch, Cow Hitch, Clove Hitch & Slipped Variation, Running Bowline, Sheets Bend
Properly clean, dress, & sharpen a saw
Maintain equipment checklists
SAFE equipment & saw operation
General Site Awareness
Rope locations and proximity to chipper or saws
Cutting or dropping being performed
Obstacles and coworkers during lowering operations
Job site cone placement and pedestrian traffic

Congrats on the promotion.
 
1. You're trying to discredit theoretical work(reading from a book). A book is written by none other than someone who's had experience just as you do. So basically you are discrediting other experienced arborist.
"Theoretical work"? What is that? You either have practical experience or you don't......Some things you just can't learn from a Youtube video. Its like trying to learn how to swim by reading about it. You just won't get it until you do it.
2. You're assuming that I'm making things up. As stated, I have little work experience, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about the trade based on what I've learned from other arborist. This assumption your are making, undermines my intelligence.
You are making things up, assuming that everything is as you imagine it would be in the perfect world in your book. The real world isn't like that. Every employer is different. You would never be hired based on your reading a book or two. If you were to be hired by somebody, it would be as an untrained entry level employee.
3. There are highly experienced arborist do used headsets as a core part of their gear. Not just any headsets, but very expensive headsets. I'm not going to go into the nuances of how its used properly, but based on how these experienced arborists uses them, I simply don't see how you could not have them, especially when doing heavy tree work.
Again, expensive toys......Most companies don't or won't use them because the hired help can be very hard on equipment. I've worked with some places that won't even provide files let alone expensive radios....If you know what you are doing you don't really need radios. You shouldn't have to keep telling the ground guys to get out of the way, or do this or do that, radio or not. You should have some sort of plan and discuss it with the guys on the ground beforehand so they know what you are going to do and when. If one keeps getting in the way you just drop small limbs on him until he gets the message............
 
High quality radios are a real benefit on the job, especially for small teams that already work well together. I've used them a few times, and found that they are really beneficial. I've also used radios in various styles for about the last 25 years, and I have also discovered that radios can be as big a distraction and source of time wasted as anything else on the job. I think that most large companies don't feel the need to add $2000.00 more equipment to a 4-man crew when they already get by very nicely without it.

Then there is how a crew is supposed to work when the radios don't work anymore. Over reliance on any technology is a big mistake, in my opinion.

So far as I am aware, the ANSI Z133 standards only recommend or require radio communication between the arborist and a crane operator on blind picks. That leaves an awful lot of other tree operations going blissfully silent without the use of radios. In fact, a competitor of mine (who introduced me to the really fine headsets I referred to above) routinely hires several deaf workers. Tell me what good headsets are for the hearing impaired?

I must agree with Arathol: of all the times I have watched a really skilled crew dismantle a tree, I have yet to see them using radios. I stopped and watched a large crane used to take down an enormous sycamore in a tight area. The climber was quickly set by the crane, the lifts were tied and set smoothly, cut loose on hand gestures, the crane swiftly dropped the tree sections into the small drop zone, and the ground crew made short work of it, liberating the crane to work the next lift ASAP. Nobody had radios, and I was deeply envious of the whole operation.

They were screwing up in one small way, however: the crane should have always been lifting extra slings back up to the climber. For some perverse reason, they were using only one or two slings, and the groundies were sending it up the climbing line to the climber. I've always had extra slings on a crane job, just so the groundies can detach the hook, slip on the spare slings, and send that hook back up FAST. There's more time to get the slings untied that way without slowing the process down. Climber should have spares with him, so that he can be setting slings while the crane is lowering the drop.
 
Recently, I have been promoted to foreman of a small company. Along with the title comes some tasks that I'm finding difficult to address. That being said, what do Ya'll believe is the basic knowledge that a groundman should have learned by his 3rd month? The list below is anything but comprehensive.

My List
Port-a-wrap or similar lowering device
Knots: Timber Hitch, Cow Hitch, Clove Hitch & Slipped Variation, Running Bowline, Sheets Bend
Properly clean, dress, & sharpen a saw
Maintain equipment checklists
SAFE equipment & saw operation
General Site Awareness
Rope locations and proximity to chipper or saws
Cutting or dropping being performed
Obstacles and coworkers during lowering operations
Job site cone placement and pedestrian traffic


I think your list sounds pretty complete, at least with respect to learning the basics. If you are going to be a foreman, however, there should be some critical knowledge added to your inventory: as supervisor, you need to know the employer's policies with respect to any violation of the rules, safety procedures, lunch breaks, equipment care, etc. You shouldn't be on your own to decide how the rules might be enforced; these things should be handed down from above. Written is better than told, too.
 
No. Its what common sense says.

And it's what some licensed arborist does already.

Careful who you take a shot at buddy. Cause Ill make you look stupid.

And instead of trying to take a shot at me, try to think when you speak. Because how is a grounds men suppose to do any type of ground work if they are gawking at the person in the tree the entire time?
I understand where you come from. When I was first learning though I would watch the guy with the rope that would let me know when to go under and I would also look up and be constantly listening. Helmet communication though has become a vital part of efficiency.
 
Paying close attention to as much as possible on the jobsite is far more important than listening to your radio. Just sayin'.

Without going into too many details: I had a climber get killed on the job a few years back. Had just ONE attentive groundie looked up and paid attention to what he was doing, he'd probably still be alive. And he was so expert at climbing, he declined to use the bucket truck we had on the job. It could reach all the places he needed to go, so his death was particularly troubling. It was just an incredibly stupid mistake; nobody seems to have been paying attention that day.
 
"Theoretical work"? What is that? You either have practical experience or you don't......Some things you just can't learn from a Youtube video. Its like trying to learn how to swim by reading about it. You just won't get it until you do it.

You are making things up, assuming that everything is as you imagine it would be in the perfect world in your book. The real world isn't like that. Every employer is different. You would never be hired based on your reading a book or two. If you were to be hired by somebody, it would be as an untrained entry level employee.

Again, expensive toys......Most companies don't or won't use them because the hired help can be very hard on equipment. I've worked with some places that won't even provide files let alone expensive radios....If you know what you are doing you don't really need radios. You shouldn't have to keep telling the ground guys to get out of the way, or do this or do that, radio or not. You should have some sort of plan and discuss it with the guys on the ground beforehand so they know what you are going to do and when. If one keeps getting in the way you just drop small limbs on him until he gets the message............
I thought about writing a long winded reply to your reply but then realized I would've fallen into your trap. lol. Your entire argument that I don't have any experience is called a "red herring" argument - moving away from the issue by bringing up another issue.

Therefore, I will stick to my original post - establishing a strong line of communication between the climber and groundmen's is a must in todays dynamic and changing work environment, where jobs can become more complicated as more tools inspire climbers to take riskier actions. If you want to make an argument, make towards this assertion of why you should have radios.

Radios are not the same as they were years ago. Their size, cost, and ease of use have totally changed, just as phones from the 80,90's,2000s have changed. This change in form, function, and cost has affected a climber's choice in his limited selection of gear. Simply stated, its a no brainer to have a headset. As for cost, why do you take on such a dangerous and costly profession only in the end not being able to afford headsets? That don't make no sense to me.

Many professional climbers are using and advocate for the use of head set. I too agree with this. Communication is crucial. When you don't like someone, you cut off communication. When you do like someone and wish for their well being, you establish a strong communication with them, hoping to impart important information.
 
No. Its what common sense says.

And it's what some licensed arborist does already.

Careful who you take a shot at buddy. Cause Ill make you look stupid.

And instead of trying to take a shot at me, try to think when you speak. Because how is a grounds men suppose to do any type of ground work if they are gawking at the person in the tree the entire time?
Because on any sort of technical removal, one groundsman is responsible for the business end of the rope, and supporting the climber... it is a full time job. He doesn't have time to be dragging brush, nor should he.
 
Because on any sort of technical removal, one groundsman is responsible for the business end of the rope, and supporting the climber... it is a full time job. He doesn't have time to be dragging brush, nor should he.
That depends on the business and how they do it. As you can see, not everyone agrees on one single method. I would assume everyone uses a headset in 2022. But we can also see that's not the case.
 
That depends on the business and how they do it. As you can see, not everyone agrees on one single method. I would assume everyone uses a headset in 2022. But we can also see that's not the case.
I don't see why someone with no experience is even responding to this post. This is arborist 101, read the forum description.
 
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