Hand file. Time to quit

[LuDookie]

Good thread.........well......better than an oil thread anyway.
I care for the Jonsered /Jonsereds saws for three brothers....all work the same.....and all have a number of saws....a saw comes in for repairs and the chains are filed way down to the point where teeth are missing. I do the repairs and put on my own B&C to test the saw, then put the original B&C back on. Those boyz sure get they're money's worth out of a chain!!! Myself.... I give it up a little bit earlier than that. But they all cut a good bit of wood and are good hand filers so I don't find fault. So IMHO it all depends on how much you want to spend and/or how good you are at chain filing /care. As long as good chips are being produced your saw is happy.......not matter how long the tooth.

I agree. Nothing wrong with it at all. I actually like to see well ground, we’ll work chains, I just personally change them out sooner.

 

[LuDookie]

…well worn chains, I meant to write.

 

[northmanlogging]

What is the " Gullet? Is it a different type of file?

the bit between the raker and the cutting surfaces of the tooth, as you file it should remain flat with the side plate, or even slope down towards the cutting edges. often times the file will drift upwards as you file, reducing the hook (rake in machinist speak) of the top plate to. Its easy to correct just a little down pressure as you file, but as easy as it is to correct, many folks don't notice it until its cutting like garbage, so they take em into the saw shop to "correct" them, when all your really need to do is adjust where you apply pressure while filing... down and back, rather then just back...

there are plenty of skookum vidjeos on the you tubes delving into this topic.

though the "gullet" is a hot topic and important on round file some folks will confuse it with square grind and insist on getting the "gullet" on them as well... when if you set your grinder correctly... its just not an issue, maybe once in the middle of chain life, but even then not really necessary.

 

[HumBurner]

My chains I hand file, and they cut great until the teeth are so worn they snap off, on my CSM too.

Then the chain get sharpened one more time to serve as "stumpers" and dam dirty stuff chains.

Yup!

I had one chain down to toothpicks for teeth, and was missing five or six cutters on one side, and two or three on the other. It finally went to the dump.

 

[HumBurner]

The gullet is the area between the top plate and tie strap. The ( shape

I will have to disagree here. The bottom of the " ( " where it meets the flat is the gullet, not the whole curve. The gullet doesn't do any actual cutting, whereas how the curve is profiled can change the width of the material being cut, up until the point of being sloped back and not cutting at all.

 

[LuDookie]

You guys must be absolute wizards with a file. I out-cut everyone in my circle with my sharpened chains, but by the time I put a new chain on it, it feels like a new saw.

 

[HumBurner]

You guys must be absolute wizards with a file. I out-cut everyone in my circle with my sharpened chains, but by the time I put a new chain on it, it feels like a new saw.

Ha, no wizard here. I still make mistakes when filing, especially when it's going smooth and I stop paying attention.

But over time, seeing how this chain filed this way cuts vs how that chain filed like that cuts, you can see the differences.

It's like the debate of hook. Different cutting conditions determine the hook. Very little hook but a strong, not thin curve, can cut brush and dirt all day long, maybe with one sharpening needed towards the end. The same chain with a lot of hook would continually pull the teeth into the material deeper/harder, which isn't good when you're cutting brush/sprouts. You're just wasting chain reprofiling the hook and removing any damage.


I had a chain slope back once in my early days when still using the clamp-style filing plates and not understanding. It just rode on the wood, never biting.

I also spend way too much time fixing chains, cause I hate having them ground, as well as having to fix the cutters after having them ground.

 

[huskihl]

I will have to disagree here. The bottom of the " ( " where it meets the flat is the gullet, not the whole curve. The gullet doesn't do any actual cutting, whereas how the curve is profiled can change the width of the material being cut, up until the point of being sloped back and not cutting at all.

I was just saying in general. Easier to explain

 

[LuDookie]

Ha, no wizard here. I still make mistakes when filing, especially when it's going smooth and I stop paying attention.

But over time, seeing how this chain filed this way cuts vs how that chain filed like that cuts, you can see the differences.

It's like the debate of hook. Different cutting conditions determine the hook. Very little hook but a strong, not thin curve, can cut brush and dirt all day long, maybe with one sharpening needed towards the end. The same chain with a lot of hook would continually pull the teeth into the material deeper/harder, which isn't good when you're cutting brush/sprouts. You're just wasting chain reprofiling the hook and removing any damage.


I had a chain slope back once in my early days when still using the clamp-style filing plates and not understanding. It just rode on the wood, never biting.

I also spend way too much time fixing chains, cause I hate having them ground, as well as having to fix the cutters after having them ground.

I’m starting to slowly become more and more interested in getting the most out of a chain. That’s why I’m on this thread. I usually preserve a lot of hook on my chains and I “try” to keep my cutting clean. I was doing really well on my current big saw, but eventually I cut a couple of bases where I boogered up a few teeth, and although I’ve nursed the chain back to cutting fast, I’ve got a little off track with the depth gauges or something, so it’s cutting rough.

 

[TRTermite]

I’m starting to slowly become more and more interested in getting the most out of a chain. That’s why I’m on this thread. I usually preserve a lot of hook on my chains and I “try” to keep my cutting clean. I was doing really well on my current big saw, but eventually I cut a couple of bases where I boogered up a few teeth, and although I’ve nursed the chain back to cutting fast, I’ve got a little off track with the depth gauges or something, so it’s cutting rough.

I will speculate that YOU are on this thread 'cuz Ya wanna get more confident with Analyzing, correcting, and preventing cutting issues with your chain. I still look for tidbits of new (or forgotten) information And I sharpened my first saw chain 50 years ago it worked ok but my Dad didn't stick me on Chain sharpening detail. I used to sharpen buzz saw blades then re-tension them if I ground into the GULLET due to the teeth getting short.
"Preserve a lot of hook" that hook with too much angle/rake will dull quicker like a cutting axe vs. a splitting mall.Hard wood vs. soft wood just something to be aware of, The "Gullet" or "Gizzard" is responsible for carrying out the chip AND eject the chip when clearing the cut so it is ready to get another "Load"/ "Craw full" The most important part commented on was "SO IT IS CUTTING ROUGH"
So many are not aware of a problem so the problem just worsens. Northman post #23 said it right.
LONG winded post ,,, i must be bored >> AGAIN.. or procrastinating going to work..

 

[LuDookie]

I will speculate that YOU are on this thread 'cuz Ya wanna get more confident with Analyzing, correcting, and preventing cutting issues with your chain. I still look for tidbits of new (or forgotten) information And I sharpened my first saw chain 50 years ago it worked ok but my Dad didn't stick me on Chain sharpening detail. I used to sharpen buzz saw blades then re-tension them if I ground into the GULLET due to the teeth getting short.
"Preserve a lot of hook" that hook with too much angle/rake will dull quicker like a cutting axe vs. a splitting mall.Hard wood vs. soft wood just something to be aware of, The "Gullet" or "Gizzard" is responsible for carrying out the chip AND eject the chip when clearing the cut so it is ready to get another "Load"/ "Craw full" The most important part commented on was "SO IT IS CUTTING ROUGH"
So many are not aware of a problem so the problem just worsens. Northman post #23 said it right.
LONG winded post ,,, i must be bored >> AGAIN.. or procrastinating going to work..

Yes, the process needs to evolve.

 

[TRTermite]

Yes, the process needs to evolve.

YUPP but you said it so concisely I B Humbled.

 

[LuDookie]

YUPP but you said it so concisely I B Humbled.

You said it well too…” analyzing, correcting, preventing “. I was way up on my high horse with this chain I’ve been running since the new year until about 5 trees ago. It’s been a bit of a struggle since, and I’m deep into not knowing it all, and back to learning. It’s a 32” chisel skip chain and it’s given me good mileage and I’ve been trying harder than ever to keep it alive and producing. As much as I like to swap them out at this point, I’ve got 2 new loops waiting.

 

[huskihl]

You said it well too…” analyzing, correcting, preventing “. I was way up on my high horse with this chain I’ve been running since the new year until about 5 trees ago. It’s been a bit of a struggle since, and I’m deep into not knowing it all, and back to learning. It’s a 32” chisel skip chain and it’s given me good mileage and I’ve been trying harder than ever to keep it alive and producing. As much as I like to swap them out at this point, I’ve got 2 new loops waiting.

If you like rakers on a newer chain at .025”, a nearly worn out chain will need them at about .032” to cut as aggressively. A standard raker gauge won’t do this but a progressive guide will. IDK, could help with your issues

 

[TRTermite]

If you like rakers on a newer chain at .025”, a nearly work out chain will need them at about .032” to cut as aggressively. A standard raker gauge won’t do this but a progressive guide will. IDK, could help with your issues

Thanks for that I never got articulate about how much but usually resort to my dremel and oneyeball them somewhere after half life and again at near death.
Unless I hit something I hand file past the witness mark...

 

[huskihl]

Thanks for that I never got articulate about how much but usually resort to my dremel and oneyeball them somewhere after half life and again at near death.
Unless I hit something I hand file past the witness mark...

I grind most of the time unless they need sharpening in the woods. It’s pretty easy switching to the wide wheel on the grinder. I check the first couple with a straight edge and feeler gauges until they’re where I want and then buzz around the whole chain in a few minutes

 

[huskihl]

Damn. Talk to text butchered that last one. All fixed up now

 

[TRTermite]

I grind most of the time and less shy needs it in the words. It’s pretty easy swipe into the wide wheel on the grinder. I check the first couple with a straight edge and feeler gauges until they’re where I want and then buzz around the whole chain in a few minutes

Kind of my attitude,, check a few then go by feel and sound.. I have a few saws I use for bore cutting and try to be more accurate with them.

 

[LuDookie]

I do mostly grinding too. I’m convinced that it produces just as good of results as filing as far as sharpness and angles are concerned given there are a few things that need to be understood. I’m sure filed chains last longer. The dremel takes off more metal in one pass. But sometimes I’m guilty of hitting the depth gauges with the dremel and that is where I think I made my latest mistake.

 

[Stihl a grasshopper]

So what I hear people saying is take it down the whole way and throw them out when the the fourth side (opposite the side plate side) is exhausted. I’ve never done the progressively shrinking triangle routine. I think your asking to break off teeth at that point.

But I hear people talking about breaking off teeth like it’s no big deal. What actually happens when you break a tooth off in the cut? Does it just come out of the bottom of the saw in the chip stream? Bounce off your cutting chaps or maybe lightly nick your leg if you’re wearing flip flops and gym shorts like all the nuts on YouTube?

I.e. Is the risk of breaking teeth even a real risk? I just assumed loose bits of sharp metal are a bad thing to be avoided when I started the thread. Doesn’t sound like folks are concerned.

I have broken a tooth or two off a few older loops. Didn’t notice until I went to sharpen the next time. The chains were getting close to the triangle stage when it happened, but I don’t know if it was from that, or hitting something hard, or cutting with just the tip.

edit: When I noticed it, I just said…

sharpened it again and kept on going!