Stihl a grasshopper
ArboristSite Operative
Last time I eyeballed it I forgot to account that I was on a small Craftsman, and not my MS361… I went a “tad bit” too aggressive!
Hand file. Time to quit
- Thread starter maowwg
- Start date
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Meh, I haven't hand filed a chain, at least not properly in years. But I was a machinist for 25 some odd years so I got pretty good with an assortment of files.
The more time on a chain the more small mistakes and inaccuracies magnify, couple that with a narrower tooth in general it adds up to not cutting as efficiently. Many times what I've noticed is that one side is more or less aggressive then the other, so the saw wants to drift even slightly, but you unconsciously correct it, so you put the whole works in a bit of a bind, and you're using that much more effort, so it feels duller the factory chains are pretty good out of the box, and rarely do they cut crooked
Granted up until the very last bit of life you can stihl (heh heh) get a chain to cut as good, or better then factory, but it does take some diligence. Though it feels like some where about 1/2 life if you get the rakers set perfect and a good sparkling edge on the teef, then it cuts better then any other time... could be my imagination though.
Cricket
ArboristSite Operative
" exposed and frightened nerve endings..."
A line clearly composed by someone who has been there...
AND With a sense of Humor mixed with Witt
When the chain gets close to the witness marks and its cutting better than ever there is a reason for that as its getting closer to what a race chain is. Not completely there but closer if the gullet is cleaned down to the tie straps it allows for better chip removal. Get the depth gauges set just right for what`s left of the cutters and that chain will self feed and cut like nobody`s business. There`s less friction/drag and a slightly narrower kerf being removed thus faster cuts.
I saw a post of a chain like that maybe on a different site but he had broken one on a knot the "FIXXDED it"When the chain gets close to the witness marks and its cutting better than ever there is a reason for that as its getting closer to what a race chain is. Not completely there but closer if the gullet is cleaned down to the tie straps it allows for better chip removal. Get the depth gauges set just right for what`s left of the cutters and that chain will self feed and cut like nobody`s business. There`s less friction/drag and a slightly narrower kerf being removed thus faster cuts.
Yep, our race chains don`t like knots much, they could be considered fragile to an extent. High speed sort of demands making sacrifices to strength and durability though, the amount of metal removed from a chain is sort of frightening.
I need to start saving my take off chains and sending them to one of you well deserving, chain sharpening gurus, free of charge, just pay the shipping. When they get down within an 1/8" of the witness marks, I chuck them. Actually I chuck them from my felling saw WAY before that, I will only take time to sharpen it once, MAYBE twice, then that chain gets relegated to bucking duty and I put on a new one.
On a serious race chain mentioned above, Is a fresh (new) chain preferred so it has snugger/tighter tolerances in the drive link joints and drive link to rim sprocket? Or is a worn one more desirable like the old cars would wind up higher rpms 'cuz they had Less friction.. ? I always thought the higher rpms was cuz it was a bucket of bolts in a bunch of rust and nobody cared.. Run it like ya stole it
Well, most are made from individual new parts that are worked over with some magic. If a loop is used then they usually are new chains, just depends on how serious of a chain builder one is.
Thanks for your reply. I can imagine the magic uses a magnetic chuck to thin the drive links and then I would have to have a beer or two to imaginate the next intricate modification. because the ?bushings in the tie strap now stand out too proud. and and then I'd be done in for
Magic, pure magic.
ok. so you carry 2 saws one dedicated to falling, and another dedicated to bucking? or do you go through the hassle of swapping chains between each operation?
Also this seems like a whole lot of wasted effort and time, if your good with a file, or have a properly set up grinder, they will cut better then factory, so to me it seems like a total waste of effort to declare a chain only fit for one operation.
its like deciding arbitrarily that a box knife can only be used on corrugated card board, and not for packing tape or card stock
I can neither confirm nor deny that I have a rather ****ed up smile...
Thanks Chainsaw Addiction Support Network for the answers. What I heard was "Sharpen until the chain is done and don't give too much thought to broken teeth because they don't cause any meaningful danger nor are chains made of gold -- basically find a reasonable balance."
So on a related note, I've read to touch up with the file before a chain gets dull. A few file strokes at the first hint that it's spitting out sawdust vs chips or at least every time you fill the gas tank. Will following that advice of constantly touching up the chain cause it to wear out any slower than a chain that cuts until it's dull and then is sharpened? Does diligent touch up extend life by because you're not building up heat with a dull chain, or is it a matter of keeping the chain sharp and maybe sacrificing a small amount of the life of the chain by filing on it all the time and maybe filing it away faster, but extending the life of the saw and bar by not building up heat? I suppose the engine isn't working as hard as well?
So on a related note, I've read to touch up with the file before a chain gets dull. A few file strokes at the first hint that it's spitting out sawdust vs chips or at least every time you fill the gas tank. Will following that advice of constantly touching up the chain cause it to wear out any slower than a chain that cuts until it's dull and then is sharpened? Does diligent touch up extend life by because you're not building up heat with a dull chain, or is it a matter of keeping the chain sharp and maybe sacrificing a small amount of the life of the chain by filing on it all the time and maybe filing it away faster, but extending the life of the saw and bar by not building up heat? I suppose the engine isn't working as hard as well?
sharpen when it gets annoying, setting a schedule on when to sharpen is ******* stupid, oh its noon better sharpen my saw...
As I've stated before, I've gone days even occasionally weeks on a chain without sharpening, if its cutting good just keep cutting. Keep in mind I burn upwards of 2 gallons of saw fuel in a day.(usually less, I am a fat ass)
Now on the other hand, if it does get dull and your fighting to get through a cut, stop and sharpen, all your really doing is heating up the poor saw, burning more fuel, and just wearing **** out in general.
This is only applicable to me:
I consider a touch up 3-4 strokes and is a precautionary measure. Chain is still cutting but I've probably cut into dirt/silica multiple times. It might cut fine until the end of a cut when it can't feed through a minor pinch (like when cutting branches up.) Could just be one tank of fuel, could be two.
Standard sharpening is 5-8 strokes. By this point I'm about dulled out but could still cut sprouts/brush. Probably 2-3 good tanks of fuel, maybe even four tanks at this point.
9-infinity licks means I hit rock or buggered up the top plate angle/edge. At that point, I switch from same number of strokes to progressive mode and adjust depths/teeth on an individual basis.
Technicly, it's always the progressive method, but when everything is good, all teeth get the same strokes or close to it.
Another thing to note. I only apply a lot of pressure for the first 1-3 strokes, then I let off and let the file glide more on its own than my hand forcing it. Get the bad metal off, then hone it lightly. I'm not pressing hard on all the strokes.
I adjust my stance/positioning relative to the bar throughout. Sometimes I file with one hand on the guide (when applying pressure, especially), and other times I use both hands on the guide.
jackrabbit
ArboristSite Member
I'm jealous you guys can run so long without sharpening. Cutting these dead chinese elms here in Wyoming is hard on chains. The dirt blows nasty here sometimes and impregnates the bark. I feel lucky if I can get through a whole tank without having to touch up the chain. It's always fun to go up the mountains and cut pine. The saws fly through the wood and your chain sharpness seems to last forever! Interesting discussion fellas, thank you!
It all depends on the material/conditions and chain type/angle.
I've had semi chisel go dull in a tank or less cutting decent sized black/white oak rounds that had sat as logs for 2-3 years.
Have you considered the carbide chains?
Did a horrid little clearing job just off a sandy beach (staring straight into the straight of Juan De Fuca) so every tree was packed with sand, killed chains after every one I fell, so we picked up a beater saw and a handful of carbide chains, finished the job on one chain (3 days of cutting)
