Hesitation on Bar for an MS261

[MichMich]

Hi Folks!

I currently use 3 saws, two MS461 and one MS261. The two 461s are currently fitted with a 20" Stihl Rollomatic E bar, and are being upgraded with a 20" Cannon Superbar and a 25" Tsumura Light Weight.

The MS261 (non Mtronic) is fitted with a 13" Oregon Advance Cut B&C. I'm lurking to other brands, with a 15 or 16" bar, but I'm wondering if it would be worth the investment (I don't cut that much with the 261, which also serves to clean small limbs, while the 461s do the big work).

What would be your advices?

cheers

 

[Walkdog]

Sugihara makes an 18” .325 .063, which is what I run on my carb 261 V2. Balance is perfect and the saw has no trouble pulling an 18” chain completely buried in the hardest woods I see regularly - oak, madrone, and bay laurel. Sugihara’s shorter options are only available in 3/8P AFAIK.

 

[windthrown]

Best B&C on that saw is a 3/8 Picco 0.050 16" with Stihl PS chain. It WILL cut the fastest compared to any 3/8 std or .325 in that size. By a long shot. I (and many others) have tested them all with different B&C. I put a 3/8 Picco bar and full chisel non safety PS Stihl chain on my 026/260 hybrid saw and it is a great setup. No going back.

 

[John Lyngdal]

I run a 16" bar with .325"x .063 RS chain driven with a 8T rim.
I've considered switching to 3/8" .050" picco. It isn't available in pre-made RS loops, so the local saw shop make me a loop.

 

[windthrown]

Yeah, you can get 25 foot lengths of picco PS (not RS) on Ebay from KevlarGafs here in Portland. I get them made at the local Stihl shop. The non safety full chisel PS on this is great stuff. It gets the 026 to cutting way above its pay grade.

I also got a rim drive for it at an old Stihl saw shop in Cottage Grove, OR. Marked with a P, it is a mid spline size. I ordered 3 more on Ebay, but they sent me 3 mini spline drives. I complained, they said keep them and gave me my money back. The rim drives are harder to find in this size, as are the bars in the US. They come this way in a picco option in Europe on the MS261. Bar, chain and rim drive. Not here though. They stopped selling large mount picco bars in the states many years ago.

 

[Mad Professor]

Yeah, you can get 25 foot lengths of picco PS (not RS) on Ebay from KevlarGafs here in Portland. I get them made at the local Stihl shop. The non safety full chisel PS on this is great stuff. It gets the 026 to cutting way above its pay grade.

I also got a rim drive for it at an old Stihl saw shop in Cottage Grove, OR. Marked with a P, it is a mid spline size. I ordered 3 more on Ebay, but they sent me 3 mini spline drives. I complained, they said keep them and gave me my money back. The rim drives are harder to find in this size, as are the bars in the US. They come this way in a picco option in Europe on the MS261. Bar, chain and rim drive. Not here though. They stopped selling large mount picco bars in the states many years ago.

GB made large mount/3003 stihl 3/8 picco bars. Left Coast Supplies had them at bargain prices. I brought some for milling.

Too bad Left Coast is gone.

I've tried contacting GB here in USA they don't know anything about 3003 mount picco bars. I also emailed GB in OZ, got no reply.

If you need picco rims try Danzco/6Kproducts.

I also found this. Stihl lists a bar sprocket (not a whole tip) in picco. Could yellow (11T) large tip stihl 3/8 0.050 3003 mount E bars be fitted with this? If so you could convert many stihl bars to picco. I also wonder if a stihl ES bar tip would accept this?

3003 650 9938 SPROCKET 3/8P .050G - 11T 26.99

There is a part # for 16" 3003 mount picco bars: 3/8"P .050 9 teeth 60 DL 3003 000 6313

I need to check a dealer to see if these parts are available........

 

[esean]

Stihl .325 RS Pro full chisel narrow kerf may be another option, now that its finally available in the US.

 

[Doorfx]

Best B&C on that saw is a 3/8 Picco 0.050 16" with Stihl PS chain. It WILL cut the fastest compared to any 3/8 std or .325 in that size. By a long shot. I (and many others) have tested them all with different B&C. I put a 3/8 Picco bar and full chisel non safety PS Stihl chain on my 026/260 hybrid saw and it is a great setup. No going back.

Is this the chain you are talking about? But in a 16” ? See pic

 

[Mad Professor]

Is this the chain you are talking about? But in a 16” ? See pic

I'm pretty sure that what he meant. Full chisel non-safety 3/8 picco lopro.

The 63PM is similar but semi chisel.

 

[MichMich]

Wow, what a set of replies!

So, from what I understand, I should transition to 16" length, 3/8 pitch. But what about the bar maker?

 

[Mad Professor]

Wow, what a set of replies!

So, from what I understand, I should transition to 16" length, 3/8 pitch. But what about the bar maker?

If you are talking 3/8 picco you need a bar with 3/8 picco tip. Don't run picco chain on regular 3/8 drive sprockets or 3/8 bars.

Stihl 3003 mount bars in 3/8 picco are hard to find. See my post

 

[full chizel]

I bought the picco kit from the UK last year but have never mounted it. I got a 241 a week after i bought the kit so i just kept the 261 with .325. It has the 16” bar, rim, and 3 PS chains.

 

[Short timer]

Wow, what a set of replies!

So, from what I understand, I should transition to 16" length, 3/8 pitch. But what about the bar maker?

People are making this too difficult. The saw is amazing with how it’s set up from the factory. 063 .325 and a 16 inch bar is the perfect length. It’s silly to put a 18 inch bar on this saw when you have a 461 with a 20 on it. No need to be converting this 261 to 3/8 pico either imo. You still need different files and are throwing money at an advantage that is minuscule. Don’t fall for this crap, it’s a conversion that makes everything uncommon.

Btw, I run the same combo. 261 with 16 and 461 with 20 90% of the time. The saws rip, less cutters to sharpen, cheaper chains, oilers oil better, and less wear and tear on everything.

 

[windthrown]

GB made large mount/3003 stihl 3/8 picco bars. Left Coast Supplies had them at bargain prices. I brought some for milling.

Too bad Left Coast is gone.

I've tried contacting GB here in USA they don't know anything about 3003 mount picco bars. I also emailed GB in OZ, got no reply.

If you need picco rims try Danzco/6Kproducts.

I also found this. Stihl lists a bar sprocket (not a whole tip) in picco. Could yellow (11T) large tip stihl 3/8 0.050 3003 mount E bars be fitted with this? If so you could convert many stihl bars to picco. I also wonder if a stihl ES bar tip would accept this?

3003 650 9938 SPROCKET 3/8P .050G - 11T 26.99

There is a part # for 16" 3003 mount picco bars: 3/8"P .050 9 teeth 60 DL 3003 000 6313

I need to check a dealer to see if these parts are available........

I bought heaps of GB bars from Left Coast and also from a guy in Michigan that got them in bulk. But both are gone now.

There are three Stihl large mount picco 3003 bars. I posted them here many years ago. They are:

16" 3003 000 6313
18" 3003 000 6317
20" 3003 000 6321

You can still get all of these easily in the UK and Europe, and the 16" bar there also comes in an available kit with the rim drive and the chain. But not here. Stihl stopped selling them for liability issues. People stateside were putting them on 440 saws for milling. Logosol also made and sold them for milling, but they do not sell them any more.

You cannot fit the picco large mount bar tips to large mount 3/8 std. bars. They are different size/width bars. The std 3/8 bar is wider.

Baileys still sells the 16 inch bar in that line for a hefty $81 price here:

https://www.baileysonline.com/stihl...ive-links-3003-000-6313-qs-3003-000-6313.html

 

[Short timer]

So let’s direct the OP to do a conversion where he can’t get anything here in the U.S.

So when his rim wears out, he’s gotta order from over seas, if his bar gets fugged up, he’s gotta order from over seas, if he needs a new loop, he’s gotta get someone to spin him up one or invest in the tools necessary to do it himself. $80 bucks for a 16 inch bar? Pfffft.

For what? A minuscule advantage over .063 .325?

I’ll pass.

 

[windthrown]

People are making this too difficult. The saw is amazing with how it’s set up from the factory. 063 .325 and a 16 inch bar is the perfect length. It’s silly to put a 18 inch bar on this saw when you have a 461 with a 20 on it. No need to be converting this 261 to 3/8 pico either imo. You still need different files and are throwing money at an advantage that is minuscule. Don’t fall for this crap, it’s a conversion that makes everything uncommon.

Btw, I run the same combo. 261 with 16 and 461 with 20 90% of the time. The saws rip, less cutters to sharpen, cheaper chains, oilers oil better, and less wear and tear on everything.

East coast shrimpy bar mentality. Running a 461 with a 20 inch bar is a complete waste of torque and money IMO. I run one 361 with a 20 and the others with a 25 (one skip, one full comp). No issues. 18" bars work fine on 260/261 saws on soft woods here in the west with full comp chain. You can also run them with a 20" bar and skip chain just fine. Different cutting conditions require different setups. Also .325 is not the only designed factory option for the 261. In Europe you can get a 261 new from the dealers with the optional Picco B&C kits. I have run many 026, 260 and 261 saws with 3/8 std B&C, .325 B&C, and 3/8 picco B&C. Timed tests resulted in 3/8 std being the same cut times as .325 in all runs on 4 different saws. Same kerf, same cut times. The 3/8 picco was BY FAR the fastest cutting in ALL RUNS on ALL these 50cc SAWS. THE RESULTS ARE NOT MINUSCULE as you claim. There are significant advantages to running Picco on different large mount saws, depending on your cutting requirements. Google it. Its not just me that has done these comparisons between B&C options on the 260/261 saws.

Also if you want to save on money and not have different files, why run a .325 when you can run all 3/8 std B&C on your 261 and 461? Seems like a waste using your reasoning.

 

[windthrown]

So let’s direct the OP to do a conversion where he can’t get anything here in the U.S.

So when his rim wears out, he’s gotta order from over seas, if his bar gets fugged up, he’s gotta order from over seas, if he needs a new loop, he’s gotta get someone to spin him up one or invest in the tools necessary to do it himself. $80 bucks for a 16 inch bar? Pfffft.

For what? A minuscule advantage over .063 .325?

I’ll pass.

Yeah yeah yeah.. you stated this before. But you are wrong about cutting speed comparisons here. Of course you have never made the comparisons yourself or run Picco B&C on your 261, have you? Mr miniscule... and you can order this stuff from Baileys. I bought ALL of this large mount rim, chain and bars from here in the states. So you are wrong there as well. And big whoop having to drive 6 miles and having a chain loop made up. OH THE HORROR! Man, you are dishing out the BS here bub.

 

[windthrown]

Oh looky, here is a large mount Picco bar for sale RIGHT HERE IN THE US for $52.

Ships from United States

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=3003+000+6313&_sacat=0
But but but Mr Minuscule says that it cannot be had! Sad that... I guess New Jersey is like china and they do not have Google there. Or trees bigger than 3 inches DBH. Poor boy will never know the full potential of his saws. And I guess he never orders anything from overseas? Missing out there. I can often times get stuff from Korea and the UK faster than I can from the US. Royal Mail is fast. Last shipment was 4 days from London. I used to get all my Range Rover parts from Famous 4 in the UK. No issues. I ordered some parts from Korea a few weeks ago and they took a WHOPPING 5 days to get to my door. That after they said it may take a month with Covid.

 

[Short timer]

East coast shrimpy bar mentality. Running a 461 with a 20 inch bar is a complete waste of torque and money IMO.

I just don’t see the need to run a longer bar than necessary. Like I stated, the saw oils better, there’s less cutters to sharpen, bars and chains are cheaper, there’s less wear and tear on the powerhead and the saw will outperform with an undersized bar than oversized.

I run one 361 with a 20 and the others with a 25 (one skip, one full comp). No issues.

60cc saws are a useless class, they are for people who aren’t smart enough to realize a one saw plan will never be the best option. The ONLY reason to buy a 60cc saw is the mentality that it will be your only saw.

18" bars work fine on 260/261 saws on soft woods here in the west with full comp chain. You can also run them with a 20" bar and skip chain just fine.

A 20 inch bar is just silly on a 50cc unless your reasoning is for reach and reach alone.

I have run many 026, 260 and 261 saws with 3/8 std B&C, .325 B&C, and 3/8 picco B&C.

If I were to make any suggestion for the OP, it would be to go with 3/8 std for the sole purpose of having the same files and or grinding wheels. Any other conversion isn’t worth it IMO.

The 3/8 picco was BY FAR the fastest cutting in ALL RUNS on ALL these 50cc SAWS. THE RESULTS ARE NOT MINUSCULE as you claim.

Well, let’s see some times! Times that make up the need to spend $80 bucks on a bar, new rim and custom spun chains. Then we’ll do some math to see how long it’ll take him to get his return on investment.

Also if you want to save on money and not have different files, why run a .325 when you can run all 3/8 std B&C on your 261 and 461? Seems like a waste using your reasoning.

I never said what you’re insinuating. What I implied at is the only reason IMO to do a conversion is to keep everything the same. Since going with 3/8 picco wont do that, the performance gain doesn’t outweigh all the negatives for making the conversion.

 

[Short timer]

Yeah yeah yeah.. you stated this before. But you are wrong about cutting speed comparisons here. Of course you have never made the comparisons yourself or run Picco B&C on your 261, have you?

Again, let’s see these dramatic times to make this worth it for the OP.