How's this for a problem oak

[calamari]

First let me say I'm not going to use a ladder on this one.
This is on a friends property near where Grizz55chev lives. It's a dead oak that was broken off in the last snow storm that is about 30" DBH. The break is between 20' and 25' up on the trunk and when it fell over it fell into a small fir thicket getting its main fork around a 10" fir bending it over and thus pressing the break back into the trees trunk. The place where the fork has stopped on the fir is maybe 25' up in the air and the oak has a number of branches fanning out from that point on both sides like a fan because some are bent up by other firs. There is a lot of pressure pushing back against the trees trunk.
I got a heavy line over the broken part and tried jerking it down using all my cables and a snatch block with the pulling force being down and to the side while I pulled directly away from the tree. All that happened was that I broke my 5/16 cable that was the weak link in my setup. I couldn't get very close to the tree with my truck so I had to string together all the cables and heavy rope I had.
You can't get a bucket truck to the tree w/o a huge amount of tree removal and expense. There are no other trees close to the tree that aren't angled away that would allow a climber to rope over to it. His experienced and insured tree climber won't touch it. There's a house close by so no explosives. It's coming down.

 

[SweetMK]

Somebody needs to genetically cross an oak tree with a cucumber vine,,,
so that these trees will grow horizontal ,, rather than vertical.

I would bet the insurance companies will fund this cross breeding/genetic change.
NO MORE falling oak trees,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, !!

Think how much safer cutting firewood will be when the tree that you want to cut is already down,, ALL the time!!

 

[TheJollyLogger]

First let me say I'm not going to use a ladder on this one.
This is on a friends property near where Grizz55chev lives. It's a dead oak that was broken off in the last snow storm that is about 30" DBH. The break is between 20' and 25' up on the trunk and when it fell over it fell into a small fir thicket getting its main fork around a 10" fir bending it over and thus pressing the break back into the trees trunk. The place where the fork has stopped on the fir is maybe 25' up in the air and the oak has a number of branches fanning out from that point on both sides like a fan because some are bent up by other firs. There is a lot of pressure pushing back against the trees trunk.
I got a heavy line over the broken part and tried jerking it down using all my cables and a snatch block with the pulling force being down and to the side while I pulled directly away from the tree. All that happened was that I broke my 5/16 cable that was the weak link in my setup. I couldn't get very close to the tree with my truck so I had to string together all the cables and heavy rope I had.
You can't get a bucket truck to the tree w/o a huge amount of tree removal and expense. There are no other trees close to the tree that aren't angled away that would allow a climber to rope over to it. His experienced and insured tree climber won't touch it. There's a house close by so no explosives. It's coming down.
View attachment 967273

Yeah, that calls for an accordion cut, but that's not something I recommend to someone that hasn't seen it done in person before... but what the hell, you've already said it is coming down no matter what, so this is the safest way.
Rig a pull line right below that limb. Slight tension. Put a couple heavy duty ratchet straps or chains on the main trunk to close the split. Apply slight tension to the pull line, just to equalize the tension in the main stem. Cut an open and 1/4 to 1/3 deep notch notch on the right side of the trunk, away from the limb, and then apply slightly more tension. This is just to keep your backcut open. Slowly and carefully start a backcut, and asap apply a wedge behind your bar to judge movement. As soon as you see any wiggle on the wedge, immediately retreat, and finish pulling it over with the pull line... the main trunk will fall and suck the canopy out of the firs, and it will accordion down on itself...

Full disclaimer: This is a total last resort pro technique that I first learned in Houston in '08 after Ike, and is not for the faint of heart...It works, but it is sketchy as hell and you have to bring your A game...

 

[TheJollyLogger]

And for the record, if you snap a 5/16" wire rope, you're doing it wrong...

 

[calamari]

I appreciate your input jollylogger and I like how you're thinking. I think I follow what you're suggesting. There are a couple parts that need clarifying with details you didn't know.

"Rig a pull line right below that limb. Slight tension."
The break is about 20+ feet in the air. I don't climb any higher than I can get on a standard Stanley extension ladder which with overhang has about a 14' usable length. I don't climb any higher than the last rung being at my chin so it is just too short to get up right below the limb to set a line. Setting it where I can get to I think won't have enough lever to make it work. I can only drive my truck to one position so don't have a lot of options there.

"Put a couple heavy duty ratchet straps or chains on the main trunk to close the split."
The main trunk isn't split. When the leader broke off it was a pretty clean break as far as the trunk. The top is split with it broken off 1/2 way through and the remainder bent over with fibers attached. There's no need to bind the trunk because its still apparently sound at the split.

"Apply slight tension to the pull line, just to equalize the tension in the main stem."
There's really nothing to set a snatch block on that is close and in line with the force for the fir. I guess I could dig and set a deadman but that means messing around under the hanging limb risking becoming even more height challenged than I am already. I'll have to be under it some but I want to limit my exposure.
The fir is putting a large amount of force back against the trunk. If you took the fir and bent it to the same arc I'd guess it would have enough force to lift the front end of my truck off the ground. The trunk has some deepish splits in it from pressure from some direction.
The top of the oak isn't just resting in firs in the thicket it's actively being pushed back in the direction it came from. It couldn't have fallen in a worse way.
My plan, open to modification, is to cut as many small firs in the thicket as needed to prevent it from hanging up further when it comes down. I think then I'll take my 18' pole saw and start to cut on the 10" fir hopefully from a safe distance and location. It shouldn't take much cutting to get it to fail given how much it's bent. That would allow the oak to fall and then it's just dirty bucking to get it all in the wood shed. The hard part is deciding if the top will fall straight down of move to one side or another. If I can, I'll set a line just in case.

 

[calamari]

And for the record, if you snap a 5/16" wire rope, you're doing it wrong...

It's hard to calibrate the force when you're jerking on it with a pu in 4WD.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

It's hard to calibrate the force when you're jerking on it with a pu in 4WD.

Yeah, that's why pros don't jerk on wire rope with a 4wd pickup....
As far as your last post, I see a green missing running down the trunk right below the split branch... looks like an internal flaw from that one pic...

As far as setting the line goes, just toss your throwball over the limb, and then use it to pull an open running bowline up to right below the limb. That will also help close the split when you apply tension.

 

[calamari]

Yeah, that's why pros don't jerk on wire rope with a 4wd pickup....

I've been chastised. I do it because it works, it keeps people out away from hung trees and it's the first one I've broken in 5 years. As I've said a number of times, I'm not a pro. I do what I do for myself and for friends for free plus some of the wood.

As far as your last post, I see a green missing running down the trunk right below the split branch... looks like an internal flaw from that one pic...

I don't see what you're seeing unless it's the short split for a foot or so just below the bent over wood on the top.
I think the focus is all on the top because once the top touches the ground it's all very easy. The joker is that fir.
.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I've been chastised. I do it because it works, it keeps people out away from hung trees and it's the first one I've broken in 5 years. As I've said a number of times, I'm not a pro. I do what I do for myself and for friends for free plus some of the wood.

I don't see what you're seeing unless it's the short split for a foot or so just below the bent over wood on the top.
I think the focus is all on the top because once the top touches the ground it's all very easy. The joker is that fir.
.

Oops, spell check fail. Meant to say green moss line running down the trunk. Could just be the lighting on the picture.

 

[calamari]

Oops, spell check fail. Meant to say green moss line running down the trunk. Could just be the lighting on the picture.

Whew! I thought that a split was actually forming in the picture making a bad situation even worse.

 

[calamari]

Whew! I thought that a split was actually forming in the picture making a bad situation even worse.

One comment about the broken wire rope, I expected to find a short section of the cable with the rope clamps so I coud use them again but all I found was the fraid end of the rope, the clevis still attached to my pull hitch and the thimble. For some reason the rope broke and the eye broke too because that was all there was that was left. I think I might have heard some glass breaking at that house in the picture but can't be sure.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Whew! I thought that a split was actually forming in the picture making a bad situation even worse.

I'd hit that moss line with a screwdriver to make sure it isn't hiding a hidden defect... it sure seems to run right down from the split.

 

[calamari]

I'd hit that moss line with a screwdriver to make sure it isn't hiding a hidden defect... it sure seems to run right down from the split.

Good idea. We dug at the obvious cracks from the strain it's under and hit it with a hammer to listen for dead spots but it all seems pretty good except where the crotch got some rot (that reminds me of an admonition I got in the service) and allowed the snow to break the tree there. Those old oaks often have rot in the center but the live wood is so strong that it doesn't usually play a role.
The tree in the picture on the site where I took gas over using a ladder had a base that was 6' to 7' feet in diameter but it had been hollowed out from at least a couple fires in the past and the only live wood was a ring around the perimeter about 5" to 10" wide. A circle is a strong shape but hard to deal with when it's time for the tree to go.

 

[grizz55chev]

First let me say I'm not going to use a ladder on this one.
This is on a friends property near where Grizz55chev lives. It's a dead oak that was broken off in the last snow storm that is about 30" DBH. The break is between 20' and 25' up on the trunk and when it fell over it fell into a small fir thicket getting its main fork around a 10" fir bending it over and thus pressing the break back into the trees trunk. The place where the fork has stopped on the fir is maybe 25' up in the air and the oak has a number of branches fanning out from that point on both sides like a fan because some are bent up by other firs. There is a lot of pressure pushing back against the trees trunk.
I got a heavy line over the broken part and tried jerking it down using all my cables and a snatch block with the pulling force being down and to the side while I pulled directly away from the tree. All that happened was that I broke my 5/16 cable that was the weak link in my setup. I couldn't get very close to the tree with my truck so I had to string together all the cables and heavy rope I had.
You can't get a bucket truck to the tree w/o a huge amount of tree removal and expense. There are no other trees close to the tree that aren't angled away that would allow a climber to rope over to it. His experienced and insured tree climber won't touch it. There's a house close by so no explosives. It's coming down.
View attachment 967273

Todd Valley? Been snowing here since last night, not much sun all day and cold, like 30 degrees.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

One comment about the broken wire rope, I expected to find a short section of the cable with the rope clamps so I coud use them again but all I found was the fraid end of the rope, the clevis still attached to my pull hitch and the thimble. For some reason the rope broke and the eye broke too because that was all there was that was left. I think I might have heard some glass breaking at that house in the picture but can't be sure.

Oh no!!! Just saw that.... yeah, as much as I'm not a fan of wire rope over synthetic ropes, never ever use clamps... either a swaged connection, or a splice.... sounds like your rope pulled through the clamps.

 

[calamari]

Oh no!!! Just saw that.... yeah, as much as I'm not a fan of wire rope over synthetic ropes, never ever use clamps... either a swaged connection, or a splice.... sounds like your rope pulled through the clamps.

Yes, I'm sure you're right. As I say I usually don't overstress my stuff but I changed my trottle return spring and it now suddenly goes from not enough to too much. I guess I'll take the time to splice an eye in it next time.

Todd Valley? Been snowing here since last night, not much sun all day and cold, like 30 degrees. View attachment 967308

Close. Across from the USFS office and back in that death trap of houses, brush and big old trees off Thomas.
We got snow but no stick until noon. Big freeze coming so working on that tree is going on hold for awhile. I cut down a couple other manageable hangers for my friend and bucked them up. My back is sore today and I had to put my friend on my tailgate to get him back to his house a couple hundred feet away because his is worse. Geezers Rule!
.

 

[davidwyby]

What part of CA? I’d tackle that for fun.

 

[calamari]

East of Sacramento and I appreciate your interest but it's not as easy as the one picture seems to indicate. I'll put up better pictures in the future. Maybe it will have fallen down by then?

 

[davidwyby]

Maybe in april in conjunction with @Bob95065 GTG.

 

[calamari]

Let me be clear. I'm not soliciting anyone to come and help with the tree. Only showing an example of one of many problem oaks here in the central foothills. Having a broken tree hang up in another tree or several other trees isn't particulaly unique. This one having the top jammed into a tree small enough to flex a lot and push it back into the trunk while susp[ending it horizontally over 20' in the air isn't one you see every day. At least I haven't.
Updates won't come for awhile.