I hit metal and now make crooked cuts

[gggGary]

True story; doing tornado clean up, damaged old tree next to an even older farmstead garage, team leader moved away some steel scrap that was leaned against the tree, made his first cut, predicable results. Then said hey let me use YOUR saw Gary. His saw was from the equipment trailer. My saw was MY saw. I declined, he was kind of mad about it. Yeah he ruined three more chains trying to saw through metal inside that tree. They finally pulled it down with a skidder.
I kinda think whether you can get a straight cut with uneven teeth also depends on how worn the guide bar slot is.

 

[Captain Bruce]

Yes. Everyone should have at least one spare chain. The old chain needs to be sharpened equally, and doing that with a machine is the best way, providing the "mower shop" actually sharpens correctly. Giving them a damaged chain is a good way to find out, too.

It also gets your customer service moved up the food chain. By keeping someone working, you help the shop. Local shop has a young guy / late 20's, who works in the afternoons, driving the van and trailer around. Machine pick-up's, and deliveries. When he's in the shop, he goes straight to the sharpener bench. He takes his time, and is getting better. His sharpened chains are mirror-like. He will also firmly tell the customer, "this chain is beyond sharpening/ its junk". His work has value, as does his desire to do it right. He'll sell you a box of files, and hand guide, and show you how to practice. This Guy is willing to lose his job, to keep it.

Deal with your local shop, regularly. The savings are in the costly stuff. The true value is in being considered, "A Good Customer".

 

[Captain Bruce]

Yes, I normally do but i could tell some of the corners were still not "done" so in an attempt to keep em close I did 10 strokes per tooth but some did get even more until they looked good. Up until this I think I was keeping the chains as sharp or sharper than getting em done at the shop using the 2in1. I am horrible with just a file so i had always taken them in until i tried the 2in1. I thought id never take them in to be sharpened again until this. Maybe I will try doing the left teeth only before I do. it cuts to the right, now.

This is a gag, right? You're going to sharpen a chain, lop-sided? No, buts thats funny, I don't care who you are......

 

[Philbert]

I might be a huge offender of throwing them out. Maybe start a new thread on the challenge.

Offer up some damaged chains for the price of shipping on the Trading Post. Guys who want to practice can have a go at it, maybe salvage a few, and learn something. Just like guys who want old cylinders to practice porting on.

It took me a while to try different things, and figure what works for me. Having lots of chains from storm cleanup volunteers helped! I learned a lot about different styles of chains, as well as what can go wrong with them.

Especially if they are 'someone else's chain", my standard approach is to: clean them; inspect for damage; even things out / reset them with a grinder; re-lube them. They go back out with a fresh start, even if with some of the life used up.

In addition to damaged cutters, I see: damaged drive links, bent/twisted chains, rust, poorly made 'field repairs', and just bad sharpening attempts. After a while, it becomes easier to spot problems, and to decide which chains are worth the effort. A spinner / breaker set is also a good tool for chain repair - the cost can be justified by saving just a small number of chain loops.

Philbert

 

[singinwoodwackr]

It also gets your customer service moved up the food chain. By keeping someone working, you help the shop. Local shop has a young guy / late 20's, who works in the afternoons, driving the van and trailer around. Machine pick-up's, and deliveries. When he's in the shop, he goes straight to the sharpener bench. He takes his time, and is getting better. His sharpened chains are mirror-like. He will also firmly tell the customer, "this chain is beyond sharpening/ its junk". His work has value, as does his desire to do it right. He'll sell you a box of files, and hand guide, and show you how to practice. This Guy is willing to lose his job, to keep it.

Deal with your local shop, regularly. The savings are in the costly stuff. The true value is in being considered, "A Good Customer".

Wow. Hard to find people like that anymore

 

[501Maico]

The reason that chains can cut crooked are unequal cutting forces on each side. Sharpness, raker height, and tooth angle. Random cutter length is not a cause but this idea may have been started years ago because some sharpening methods/tools will cause a wrong raker height unless all teeth are the same length. A progressive raker height tool is best for unequal cutter lengths.
Personally, my biggest problem is tooth angle, especially when using many strokes to sharpen damaged chains. The easy side is always correct but I have to be extra careful on the awkward side or it will always be a slightly different angle. A tooth with more angle will cut with less force than one with a lesser angle.

 

[ValleyForge]

Don't know where you heard that, but its just not right......
The raker controls the depth of the cut for each individual tooth, not the entire chain. If you have cutters that are different heights, the ones that are lower won't cut very much if at all, making for a very inefficient chain. You want to check the entire chain, see which tooth is the shortest and file the rest to match.

great pic showing the effect of the low cutter. Now if by chance the majority of short cutters are on one side, you will cut crooked. It’s just simple physics. There are the other reasons listed why it will cut crooked, and ALL need to be addressed to get a proper sharp chain.

 

[sean donato]

The low cutters do not matter if the depth gauge is set properly. The chain will cut straight. Period. Efficiency of cut is another topic and not all cutters cut all the time as the cutters do not stay flat on the bar as they cut. They twist into the wood as they cut.

 

[ValleyForge]

The low cutters do not matter if the depth gauge is set properly. The chain will cut straight. Period. Efficiency of cut is another topic and not all cutters cut all the time as the cutters do not stay flat on the bar as they cut. They twist into the wood as they cut.

So,you wouldn’t need say the left cutters, and the chain would cut straight?

 

[sean donato]

No, the cutters are individuals. They really don't care what the next one is doing so long as each cutter is set up right. The length of the tooth is not a factor as long as that tooth depth gauge is set correctly. The chain will cut straight.

 

[ValleyForge]

No, the cutters are individuals. They really don't care what the next one is doing so long as each cutter is set up right. The length of the tooth is not a factor as long as that tooth depth gauge is set correctly. The chain will cut straight.

no, the bar makes the cutters a system. See the pic that was posted. it all the left cutters were low the blade would migrate right because the actual cutting is favoring the right. Now, that’s a worst case scenario I am talking about but, it highlights the importance of all cutters participating in the cut.

 

[sean donato]

no, the bar makes the cutters a system. See the pic that was posted. it all the left cutters were low the blade would migrate right because the actual cutting is favoring the right. Now, that’s a worst case scenario I am talking about but, it highlights the importance of all cutters participating in the cut.

No the bar is just there to guide the chain in a circle. That illustration is crap. The not every cutter cuts at the same time. The pull themselves Into the wood and this twists them away from the bar.
Here he explains this better then me.

 

[ValleyForge]

No the bar is just there to guide the chain in a circle. That illustration is crap. The not every cutter cuts at the same time. The pull themselves Into the wood and this twists them away from the bar.
Here he explains this better then me.

Oh, so the short cutters know they are short and manically jump into the wood because they know the long cutters in front and behind are stopping them?
of course not, the bar makes them a system and the cutters only do what you file them to do, and that’s what the crap pic is telling you….

we will have to agree to disagree with the physics But there is no chance of a bar cutting right or left with my approach. Period.

 

[sean donato]

Oh, so the short cutters know they are short and manically jump into the wood because they know the long cutters in front and behind are stopping them?
of course not, the bar makes them a system and the cutters only do what you file them to do, and that’s what the crap pic is telling you….

we will have to agree to disagree with the physics But there is no chance of a bar cutting right or left with my approach. Period.

No you fail to realize the cutter don't stay flat on the bar, and not all cutter cut at the same time. The physics is quite simple when you realize how a chain saw actually works. The cutters are not dependent on each other for depth of cut. Doesn't matter one bit. They can all be different lengths so long as the Individual cutters depth gauge is set correctly.
Your base assumption that the cutters stay flat on the bar is wrong. Hence why the illustration is wrong and yoll never understand it. Your thinking of a single linear motion of the chain, when thats just not true.

 

[ValleyForge]

No you fail to realize the cutter don't stay flat on the bar, and not all cutter cut at the same time. The physics is quite simple when you realize how a chain saw actually works. The cutters are not dependent on each other for depth of cut. Doesn't matter one bit. They can all be different lengths so long as the Individual cutters depth gauge is set correctly.
Your base assumption that the cutters stay flat on the bar is wrong. Hence why the illustration is wrong and yoll never understand it. Your thinking of a single linear motion of the chain, when thats just not true.

No, actually the short cutter floats between the two taller cutters…it’s just along for the ride, in the system the bar creates. They physics is simple…

and I’m not assuming the cutters stay flat on the bar at all…the cutters are in the wood if they can reach it, that’s kinda how a chainsaw works…

 

[sean donato]

No it doesn't skip over the shorter cutters. Each cutter tips forward cuts its little piece of the wood, doing this rocks it down away from the bar into the wood. The depth gauge limits its downard travel. Next cutter comes along and does the same thing. It's a progressive chipping at the wood. Not every cutter makes a cut, it's a combination of chain speed and number of cutters thay makes a smooth cut. Look at a standard hand saw, the tooth design is totally different. Straight line the teeth cannot move individually from each other. In this case it's imperative each cutter is exactly the same. The chain on a chain saw is designed to allow each cutter to pivot on the wood and take is little chunk of wood out. This action can best be seen when noodling or cutting with the grain.

 

[ValleyForge]

No it doesn't skip over the shorter cutters. Each cutter tips forward cuts its little piece of the wood, doing this rocks it down away from the bar into the wood. The depth gauge limits its downard travel. Next cutter comes along and does the same thing. It's a progressive chipping at the wood. Not every cutter makes a cut, it's a combination of chain speed and number of cutters thay makes a smooth cut. Look at a standard hand saw, the tooth design is totally different. Straight line the teeth cannot move individually from each other. In this case it's imperative each cutter is exactly the same. The chain on a chain saw is designed to allow each cutter to pivot on the wood and take is little chunk of wood out. This action can best be seen when noodling or cutting with the grain.

so if the short cutter can’t reach the wood, it still cuts anyway? What force tilts it If not the resistance of the wood it can’t reach?

 

[Okie]

Sometimes chainsaws do not like the way you hold your mouth when trying to make them operate correctly.

 

[sean donato]

Yep I'm done, I've explained this every way I can think and your still thinking 2d. Assuming the chain is glued to the bar.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Yep I'm done, I've explained this every way I can think and your still thinking 2d. Assuming the chain is glued to the bar.

I had a whole dissertation written up about how chain works in practice...deleted it because of exactly what just happened. lol

Some people just refuse to be open to the idea of being wrong. I was in their corner not long ago...then I took a long hard look at it and realized I was wrong. The information is out there if they decide to seek it out. Not only that, all it takes is sharpening a chain so that tooth lengths are different and cutting with it. Which was the first thing I did when I realized I was wrong...and sure enough...even with all one side sharpened shorter, it still cut straight.