I Want a Roof-mounted Crane, to Put on a Van

[BigSix]

Hello, everyone!

I know there is no appropriate forum, here, for this question, but I've learned a lot by "lurking" here, and believe I've even posted occasionally, and I trust you guys. :msp_smile:

I injured my back, had surgery, and am told by my surgeon (please knock on REAL wood three times--thanks--I'm superstitious) that I have to live with a 25lb. weight limit on what I can lift, for the rest of my life….

The problem is, I want to start a small business buying abandoned storage containers, and selling the valuables (yeah, I got the idea from History Channel's "Storage Wars.")

I realize many of the storage units are inside buildings, so this question would apply only to those located outside, obviously.

I'm thinking of putting a rear lift gate on a used van (one ton van). So far, so good.

But that doesn't help me clear out the container. So...I would like to find a small, ELECTRIC (over hydraulic) CRANE that I can mount on the rear ROOF of the van.

Before I go any further, I should explain that I grew up in my family's heavy construction business (which then became exclusively a crane service), and can operate up to 55 tons, have operated dozers, a Cat 977, backhoes, etc..., but I am unlicensed for cranes (went to college instead--I did well in school, but the things that interest me I didn't learn in college, so—extended midlife crisis--LOL).

Anyway, I'm comfortable around cranes, and most other large, yellow and orange equipment.

Here is a link to one I do NOT want:
Vestil Winch Operated Truck Jib Crane

I do not want that one because it's not electric, and it's too small, I NEED IT TO FOLD FLAT, and I want a LONG umbilical, from which to operate it, electrically, from INSIDE THE CONTAINER, to either pick/drag large items out onto the van's lift gate. Then, I can put the lift gate at a comfortable work height, and do my sorting from there.

What I'd like is a crane with at least a 2,000lb. lift capacity, so that I don't hook onto something that weighs 1,001 lbs., and suddenly have a broken, flying cable snapping around.

I realize the umbilical will probably have to be custom-ordered, to get the 30'+ length I'll need, to ensure that I'm BEHIND the object I'm dragging out.

I also realize I may need a larger-than-normal cable drum, to get the length I need, and I’m HOPING that is possible, as an option on an existing unit. Otherwise, I'll be screwing with chains to get the length I need.

I realize that the van's roof will have to be reinforced, SIGNIFICANTLY, to have this be safe.

I was thinking of welding or bolting the crane base to a “van-width” (6' x 6'?) sheet of 1/4" steel, and have an identical sheet made for the inside, and bolting them together, to make a "sandwich," with the van's roof inside the "sandwich." I realize this will distort the van roof and probably both sheets, but this isn't a beauty contest. I would probably have a fab shop cut the sheets and bolt holes with a plasma cutter, so everything lines up.

I also realize that I will then have weld floor plates to the van, for the four vertical supports I plan to build, to connect to the four corners of the 6'x6' inside plate, to the floor of the van. and I may have to have custom brackets fabbed up, so that I can do this, because I want to be able to UNBOLT (or unpin?) THE INNER, VERTICAL SUPPORTS, in case I need the extra width, for big items, that the vertical supports will consume. I was thinking of 1 and 1/2" or 2" box section tubing, for the vertical supports, possibly of a thicker-than-normal wall thickness.

I also realize I will have endless leaks to silicone up, with the bolts and umbilical/power cords penetrating the roof. And I may need an "ambulance alternator," (i.e., a 130 amp "high output" model) to keep up with the crane and lift gate. And a ladder on one of the rear doors, to get up there, to "park" the crane, down LOW, for transport, etc....

Okay, guys--rip me up! What have I missed?

Oh--in addition to manufacturer recommendations on the crane, I have a few other questions:

1. Who makes such cranes? (I know, I asked that above).:yoyo:

2. Is 1/4" steel plate too thin? Too heavy? (Remember, two 6'x6' sheets are being planned on).

3. Does anyone think this amount of weight, plus crane, will make a one-ton van "tippy"? I drive an F-250 4x4 now, have driven trucks all my life, and I realize the reason that the most common SUV accident-cause is "tripping" (where they turn too sharp for a high vehicle, then catch a drain/curb/pot hole, and BLAM! And yes, that SUV "tripping" statistic is a FACT, or was, when I read it a few years ago). What I'm saying is, I drive trucks like TRUCKS, and I drive cars like CARS, and I know the difference. So I'm personally not thinking the weight will be a problem, but I'd like your opinions anyway. LOL

4. Does anyone think I need to make "backing plates" for UNDER the van, and through-bolt the vertical members' bases to these backing plates? I can do that, IF there's nothing in the way, like brake/fuel lines, gas tanks, etc....

Thanks in advance!

BigSix

 

[Bomber]

Hire a kid in high-school or a neighbor instead. Will be cheaper for you and will instill some work ethic in our younger generation.

 

[BigSix]

I Hear Ya...

Bomber,

I hear ya when you say:

"Bomber

Hire a kid in high-school or a neighbor instead. Will be cheaper for you and will instill some work ethic in our younger generation."

And I will definitely be doing that for the storage lockers that are inside buildings. I'm just thinking about having to pay him travel time, if I go for non-local auctions.

Plus I'm part Scottish, so....

Thank you, though-it's good advice!

Big Six

 

[Fifelaker]

Check out the "rent a mover" at local moving co's when you travel. You can hire a guy out of them by the hour.

 

[Guido Salvage]

I am confused as to what you are attempting to do. While I understand the use of the crane, how is it going to help you place a load in the van? It is one thing to use a knuckleboom to load an open trailer, it is quite another to try to place it inside a van that the jib is mounted to.

Your best bet is some type of auto crane that would allow you to load a flatbed truck or an attached open trailer. While it would not be enclosed it would make loading/unloading easy and the items could be covered with a tarp. With a trailer you would also have the benefit of ramps for loading and unloading.

I would look at an used service truck. Loads of storage on the sides, open bed, solid mounting point, stabilizers to support your loads and it would probably already be wired as you need (or easily convertible).

However, I think that before I invested $1,000's of dollars in equipment I would realistically determine whether there is actually any margin in what you are looking to do. Many lockers are stuffed with junk and there will be many bidders (including many more experienced than you). How do you plan to get rid of your treasures? Do you have a retail location, are you going to auction it, put it on Craigslist or wholesale it to someone else?

Without a well conceived plan you may be doomed to be the next person profiled on "Hoarder". As someone who has attended and bought at auctions for 40 years, it is a lot easier to buy junk than it is to sell it. If you need proof, I have a 3000 square foot shed that I can offer up as evidence...

 

[Toddppm]

Hello, everyone!

Okay, guys--rip me up! What have I missed?

BigSix

Sorry to burst your bubble , the crane things sounds cool and yo've obviously put alot of thought into it. I don't think think it will be a worthy project for the time involved and for the occasional use it'd get.
Besides that....I used to run one of the largest storage places in my metro area and I'll tell you what-those shows are full of ####! I did our auctions and went to many others, knew all of the guys that did it for a living and the ratio of #### units to good ones is waaaay in favor of the #### ones. Those shows are set up completely, even hollywood doesn't have enought money to film all of the crappy units long enough to run into all of the good ones that they supposedly find.
The guys I knew that made good money off this were in business a very long time and had established shops and real estate. Then there were the guys that were just wheeler dealers that loved to buy and sell anything, not just units cause they couldn't live off of it.
I love watching a couple of these shows but there are like 5 or 6 now? The people in them are having success only because of the shows and since they've been out everybody has an idea to start their own biz. See how many more people are at the auctions now in these shows compared to the beginning? Do youself a favor and go to a bunch of auctions first and see from there, maybe you have? and your still interested?

 

[Walt41]

I hope you read this: My son and his best friend had been buying lockers up until about episode six of that show, about one in ten is profitable...fact!
People know what they have in there and will take the good stuff before they get locked out for non-payment...fact
The folks on the show are paid per episode...up to 10k per showing...fact
You are not being paid to show up to an auction.

What has recently changed:
Buyers premium has gone from 5% to as high as 15% in some cases as a result of the show, so now in addition to tax, add another 10% or so to your cost.
Rules have changed as to items that can be kept, in most cases guns and cash have to be turned in and they watch you unload so you will be caught.
Items with a first lien cannot be kept: ie, Jr bought a locker with commercial cleaning equipment in it and it turns out the stuff was leased and had to go to the first lien holder per local law<-$,1,800> right there.
The show brings in a constant stream of new dreamers that go broke quick, this does not matter because there are new ones every week. Fact-you cannot continually compete with ignorance.

After paying more for your locker than anyone else in the crowd is willing to pay, you must now transport, sort, store and resell the contents. You also have to dispose of literally tons of trash at your cost.

 

[Guido Salvage]

If you are looking to buy and sell, scrap the storage auction route and go to auctions where you can see/feel/test/kick the item that you are interested in. You can then make an unemotional assessment on its condition and value and bid accordingly. Better to know what you have and what you can sell it for than to end up as a garbage hauler for no profit.

As Walt says, how many people are going to let their good stuff get sold out from under them if they can't pay the bill? I have had decent luck buying good stuff at cheap prices at trucking salvage auctions.

 

[BigSix]

Fifelaker,

Thank you SO MUCH for the “rent a mover” tip! The idea of paying someone to sit in the seat while I drive for hours, to and back, bothered me, because I’m part Scottish, which is a nice (I guess?) way of saying I’m…uhm…frugal? LOL :msp_razz:

Really, really appreciate the advice.
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Guido Salvage,

I understand your confusion, because I realize, now, that I BELIEVE all I need is a WINCH, (in addition to the 1,000 lb. lift gate). I envision that the winch would be up high, inside, behind the front seats, like behind the bulkhead in a modern, Ford, one-ton U-Haul van I recently used, to help someone move. I thought I could put the lift gate on, and simply winch the stuff up onto the lift gate, (possibly using a temporarily-placed roller-fair lead at the rear-most floor of the van, that slips out of two welded-up pipes, under the floor of the van.

I figured I could fab up brackets going down through the floor, to the frame, if necessary, like a pickup roll bar, but inside the van, if floor plates weren’t enough.

However, this advice hit home—HARD:

However, I think that before I invested $1,000's of dollars in equipment I would realistically determine whether there is actually any margin in what you are looking to do. Many lockers are stuffed with junk and there will be many bidders (including many more experienced than you). How do you plan to get rid of your treasures? Do you have a retail location, are you going to auction it, put it on Craigslist or wholesale it to someone else?

Without a well conceived plan you may be doomed to be the next person profiled on "Hoarder". As someone who has attended and bought at auctions for 40 years, it is a lot easier to buy junk than it is to sell it. If you need proof, I have a 3000 square foot shed that I can offer up as evidence...

I originally suspected the lockers were “salted,” but then I just decided they’re filming hundreds of these auctions, and just showing the “shockers.”

However, I already sort of came to the same conclusion as your advice, i.e., ATTEND SUCH AUCTIONS, and either a (new) neighbor kid (when we move) or Fifelaker’s “rent a mover” idea.

Guido Salvage—I gotta ask—do you own/run a scrap yard/salvage business? I would LOVE such a business, but I can imagine that the environmental issues are only getting worse, and it would DEFINITELY make me a “hoarder.” (Full disclosure—I’ve got the “hoarder gene” in me, and I know it.)

I also hear, and RESPECT, the fact that most of these bidders will be “….more experienced than you….” I’m a pretty good shade tree wrench (or was, until this back injury—please knock on REAL wood, three times, everybody—you know I’m superstitious—thank you. Funny—I just realized, I have to tell most people their desks are Formica, etc…, but this is ARBORISTSITE, so you guys are the LAST people that need to be told to look for “REAL wood.” LOL Please accept my apologies on that one! LOL

Oddly, yes, I could, possibly, have a “retail location,” as we’ve purchased a house with a (“post and beam” construction) that the former owner, a builder, completely re-skinned in beautiful, barn-red steel siding, with a steel roof, 10 years ago. The original barn floor boards are in place (some like 16” wide?) and I could foresee that as a “retail location,” in the future.

Funny point—I have never, ever, visited a junk yard, to pull auto parts, that did not have a lazy, putrid, slow-moving STREAM behind it. I **** you not! And I’ve frequented a few junkyards regularly, over the years.

Is there some kind of karmic rule that all of the TOXIC fluids that the (unscrupulous) yard owners are SUPPOSED to drain out, are destined to run into a moving waterway?

Also, just curious about your handle generally, because, again, I’ve thought that owning a “breaker yard” would be fun all day, every day. If you choose not to discuss your business online, however, I don’t blame you ONE BIT, and totally understand. Thanks again.

Wait—Guido Salvage—I think you may have made another post as I was answering, so I’ll try to address it here:

If you are looking to buy and sell, scrap the storage auction route and go to auctions where you can see/feel/test/kick the item that you are interested in. You can then make an unemotional assessment on its condition and value and bid accordingly. Better to know what you have and what you can sell it for than to end up as a garbage hauler for no profit.

Can you kindly tell me where such auctions are listed, and by whom? I like your GOOD ADVICE to be able to see the inventory, rather than to “gamble,” even though I must admit that I do get a little feverish when someone on “Storage Wars” DOES hit a home run, like when Darrell bid (I believe) 3,300+ and estimated he’d “made” $18,000. profit. However, I do think Darrell overestimates the value of some items, as the no-name, 110v MIG welder he got he called “…a $300. bill,” and I believe they’re cheaper than that, new, at the big box stores.

And I hear you, re: what Walt says, below, which I'll discuss under his handle, due to the character-limit for posts. Thanks again!
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Toddppm,

This was some SOBERING testimony, I can tell you, given your experience RUNNING such storage facilities:

Besides that....I used to run one of the largest storage places in my metro area and I'll tell you what-those shows are full of ####! I did our auctions and went to many others, knew all of the guys that did it for a living and the ratio of #### units to good ones is waaaay in favor of the #### ones. Those shows are set up completely, even hollywood doesn't have enought money to film all of the crappy units long enough to run into all of the good ones that they supposedly find.

The guys I knew that made good money off this were in business a very long time and had established shops and real estate.

Sadly, I’m afraid I will find out EXACTLY what you say may be the case, i.e., many **** auctions and only a few “home runs.”

To answer the bulk of yours, (and everyone else’s!) very pertinent questions, yes, I figured ebay (which I understand has a looooong list of items one CANNOT list?), Craigslist, and maybe certain antique dealers, etc…, as the case may be. I do not plan to hold any auctions myself. As Clint Eastwood said: “A man’s got to know his limitations…..”

I think yours is DAMN (can I say that?) good advice, and I plan to take it:

Do yourself a favor and go to a bunch of auctions first and see from there, maybe you have? and you’re still interested?

Thanks again for all of the thought and effort that went into yours (and everyone else’s!) responses.


Because of my alleged 25lb. weight-lift limit (ARRRRRGGHHH!) I may build a winch-set-up in my pickup, or in a van (IF I get one). Anybody got any criticisms of my idea to mount a 2-3,000lb. winch, right up near the roof, behind the front seats, and support it with the “rollbar-type” construction, i.e., a horizontal piece, near the ceiling, with two trusses, on a 45-degree angle, down to some floor plates?


Anyone think I have to go all the way down to the frame, for the 45-degree “roll bar trusses”?
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Walt41,

The heartfelt sentiment of your post came through LOUD and CLEAR, so I posted your whole post, just to reassure you that I DID read it and, sad as it makes me, it has the unmistakable ring of truth:

I hope you read this: My son and his best friend had been buying lockers up until about episode six of that show, about one in ten is profitable...fact!

People know what they have in there and will take the good stuff before they get locked out for non-payment...fact

The folks on the show are paid per episode...up to 10k per showing...fact
You are not being paid to show up to an auction.

What has recently changed:
Buyers premium has gone from 5% to as high as 15% in some cases as a result of the show, so now in addition to tax, add another 10% or so to your cost.

Rules have changed as to items that can be kept, in most cases guns and cash have to be turned in and they watch you unload so you will be caught.

Items with a first lien cannot be kept: ie, Jr bought a locker with commercial cleaning equipment in it and it turns out the stuff was leased and had to go to the first lien holder per local law<-$,1,800> right there.

The show brings in a constant stream of new dreamers that go broke quick, this does not matter because there are new ones every week. Fact-you cannot continually compete with ignorance.

After paying more for your locker than anyone else in the crowd is willing to pay, you must now transport, sort, store and resell the contents. You also have to dispose of literally tons of trash at your cost.

Walt41,

I must admit, I NEVER thought of this, but it rings true as well:

People know what they have in there and will take the good stuff before they get locked out for non-payment...fact

Now, and with NO offense intended whatsoever, you've confirmed my (original) suspicion that the "regulars" are paid to show up ("up to 10K...")-I've suspected the same re: Ax Men, Deadliest, etc... But may I ask how you know this for a fact?

Also, Walt41, can you kindly tell me how I can get on a notification list, or otherwise find out, when/where there are “trucking salvage auctions”? I’ve not heard of these before.
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If I’ve mixed up anyone’s questions with another member’s handle, I do apologize. I tried to keep everyone straight, but I’ve been up awhile now—LOL.

Thanks, again, most sincerely, to ALL!

BigSix

 

[Walt41]

You can go to Auctionzip.com and enter your zip code to find auctions, you can also search local auctioneers websites and sign up for notifications. But...that will only get you on a level playing field with others, real money is made when you cultivate inside sources like the HD manager and the kid that does returns at Sears. Don't rule out dumpster diving either, I have dragged home everything from cutting boards to lawnmowers for the cost of my time and gas.

 

[Walt41]

As far as that traveling circus they call "storage wars" I read an article last week that Hester was quitting because he wanted more than his 10k per episode payment, a quick Google will pull it up for you

 

[Toddppm]

I have to admit that one is my favorite show and is the most realistic. At least with the people and attitudes etc, their finds-no way.
Salvage auctions? https://www.iaai.com/ here's the auto insurance site but you have to have a license just to buy. I know a guy that does this too but he has alot of friends in the business that helped him out and can fix the cars up. I've thought about getting into parting out motorcycles as side biz because they go super cheap. I have the space but I think I'd do better if I improve on the biz I have and not get distracted anymore than I already am. At least for now......

 

[Terra Elegante]

Honestly, I think you would be better off buying a flat bed truck with a lift gate on it, get a very light duty fork lift. one that wont anhilate the lift gate on the back of a truck... get a few pallets, and hire a kid to go with you, stack the stuff on a pallet for you, take some plastic & duct tape, wrap the pallet a few times, then fork lift it onto the bed, tie it down, jack up the forklift, chain it in, and be on your way.

Might actually end up being cheaper than having to have all the custom modifications made to a van. Plus when the motor in the van dies, good luck trying to get all that equiptment back out of it and reinstalled into a new van.

thats what I would do anyway.

 

[treemandan]

Bomber,

I hear ya when you say:

"Bomber

Hire a kid in high-school or a neighbor instead. Will be cheaper for you and will instill some work ethic in our younger generation."

And I will definitely be doing that for the storage lockers that are inside buildings. I'm just thinking about having to pay him travel time, if I go for non-local auctions.

Plus I'm part Scottish, so....

Thank you, though-it's good advice!

Big Six

Well THERE"S YER PROBLEM! YER SCOTTISH! Well yer gonna have to get that outta yer system ain'cha? Eyupp!
I would think about using dollies, ramps, maybe a trailer with a winch.

Besides, that kid you get is not gonna care about you paying him dirt for sitting in the passenger seat. Just give him lots of food and tell him how to get laid.

 

[Ax-man]

I am glad to see that others have seen that most of these get rich quick resale shows shows are staged for entertainment. My son wanted to get into this and I told hem the same thing stay away from the lockers because no one leaves good stuff in them and he will be buying junk to get rid of at his own cost. Much better and easier to go local auctions to find stuff. Most of the time the good items get bidded up to where you couldn't resell themfor a good profit. About the way to make money reseeling used items is to get it free by hauling it away or better yet get paid to do it.

The show I get a kick out of is those Pawn Stars. In Vegas they probaly have good pawn shops because gambler's need money. The stuff that comes in there has to staged for entertaiment. I just can't believe your average person would have in there possesion some of those rare items, especially some of the guns. Most pawn shops I have ever been in mostly have jewelery , musical instuments and worn out constuction tools. There are no real bargains either.

Another show is that pickers show. All you see is the marked -up cost and how much money there making. What you don't see is the time on the road chasing dead end leads, the fuel costs and repairs to the truck, plus being on the road is expensive ,meals and motel rooms. That would wipe any profit real quick. Seems like you would be in red instead of the black.

The crane in the van doesn't sound like a good idea to me either.

 

[Guido Salvage]

I have bought many good items at rock bottom prices at auction. When you buy cheap you can sell cheap and make money. Below is an example of a deal I gave members here a couple of years ago.

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/137757.htm

I have bought many other items at auction from the same location. Most were cheap, but often even cheap does not equate into a sale and you are stuck with the item. I have a pallet load of these deli trays for a supermarket and can't get rid of any of them.