Leaner with some decay on base of trunk, hoping for advice on safely felling it

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eye.heart.trees

arborjunky
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
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Location
Tampa-Area
I've got this Live Oak (76lbs/cu.ft., heaviest tree I know by quite a bit) that lost a massive limb - that made/fed its entire canopy - in a storm about a month ago, smashed the fence dead-center on a panel and is currently a big stump/staub(am I using that word correctly?) that I've had sitting for like 1mo because I'm unsure on whether I've got everything taken into-consideration to safely fell it - not only does it have that increasing-as-it-gets-taller lean, it's got like 5 or 7 sq ft of dead-trunk on the rear (rear relative to felling direction, I intend to fell this 100.0% in-line with where it wants to / leans to, further fencing damage is just fine / easy to fix I just want to be sure I drop this w/o it losing control (never fell anything with this much lean before, in fact have fell only a handful of trees this thick..) The slight slope in the ground is as perfect as I could hope for, as-is the lean's direction, in terms of nearly-perfectly aimed *away-from* the house!!!

Picture-album https://imgur.com/a/fQwGPqd , see how much this thing *wants* to fall, its nutrition has only been cut-off a month but that should mean *some* degree of change in bark//sap//hardwood movement...that lean just gets steeper as the trunk goes up and that was the area feeding the fallen limb/canopy so it's heavy-as-can-be and counter-balanced against a rear-bottom that's got a spot that'd started dying I feel like I should be aiming above that so-far as my hinge-height (having the hinge *alongside* the interfacing of live&deadwood seems it'd be incredibly unpredictable), but essentially just doing ~85%(?) as much actual cutting as a true-vertical tree will let me get it weakened enough that a 1/2" tag-line / pull-line from the top will suffice in "that last 15%" so to speak (am picturing anywhere between ~50% to 90% as much cutting as normal actually maybe 80% is a better upper-bound) but am seeing it as something where the actual felling isn't done with the cutting the is merely to make it nice&ready-for a clean and easy snap from the trunk-base (going to have my hinge-height a bit higher as I want to make a planter out of the stump instead of dealing with it, figure it's an easy way to have a neat a planter for a while!), will primarily be pulling via the 1/2" bull line from the trunk's top to my truck's hitch (using 1 or more pulleys in my truck-bed as-needed, truck itself isn't reliable-enough for the subtle-pressurse I'd use for pulling something and it's sand here / I'll be across the lawn 35' from the tree)

Is there a good safe way of just doing a 'normal' type of hinging on something like this? I expect(&hope!!) that it's OK to just cut a moderate hinge, then plunge cuts (center of notch/hinge or through the sides only?), then like 50% of the rear-cut, then get clear of it and rely upon the leverage applied via the rope (eyeballing that trunk, I suck at this but it must be a ton maybe ton and a half, 76lbs/cu.ft.) as, using pulleys, I can generate a ton of pressure and I'm not trying to alter its fall/favor/lean I'm just 'helping it' go down - can't help but wondering if it's worth bringing the saw up (when setting the taglines, will be 2 as I want *some* degree of control from someone holding the rope will probably set that with a sling & pulley for 2:1 advantage for them while they pull alongside my pulling from within the truck-bed, the 2nd line is going to be a 3/8" it's wimpy but should be fine & isn't critical it's really just to prevent any surprising deadwood-fault-lines throwing the thing off-kilter too-much and hurting more fencing than-necessary (hitting another panel on either side doesn't matter although this thing looks like it just wants to go directly where its fallen-limb went through the fence,) I'm not at-all worried about getting the thing to fall I'm worried about doing it as safely as possible because I don't know that this will even creak before it's ready to just slam down, it's got wayyy too strong a lean I think just strategically cutting a hinge & relying on the bull rope is fine- can't get myself to proceed as I'm not sure on it so thanks a ton for any&all advice/tips/etc, am wondering if *wayyy* more of this should be via the bull rope I mean that trunk shouldn't need *that* much coersion from the pull-line after notching & plunging (I feel like the rear-cut is the dicey part because of the chance of underestimating how strong the remaining trunk is for the weight it's holding so want to aim & do a more minimal rear cut and then rely on the rope(s, as the 2nd line is still tension even though it's a true 'tag-line' for not letting it get too-far to its side!)

Thanks a ton for all helpful input it is really appreciated!! :)

[really starting to think I should cut a quick groove into the rear of the trunk's top as a channel for the pull-lines to grab, just for that extra security since - once I've made my cuts & started tensioning that thing - at that point I'd imagine it's incredibly dangerous to be going back into its fall-zone , let alone having to go and try to cut the trunk furtthter..between (2) pull-lines with a person using a 2:1, at least, pulley on each line, one 1/2" line and one 3/8" line with 2:1 advantage must be generating over a thousand pounds maybe get that closer to a ton if setup a 5:1 on the 1/2" line to my truck but I imagine 500lbs of pull-force, at that angle on this trunk, would set-of / crack any halfway-there hinging that was at that sweet-spot down low?!]20190808_162533.jpg
 
Oh! Wedges.....aside from using them to stop this thing from squashing my saw-blade stuck while cutting the notch, I'm totally unsure where else they should&should-not be used, specifically for the back/rear when I've got the hinge done-except-the-rear and I'm 1/4th or 1/3rd into my cut-distance (which is *not* to-center / to hinge), it's then that I'm very uncertain about wedging, I have a ton of wedges so could do it very smoothly/incrementally/spread-out however I just can't tell whether or not any levering-pressure on that side *while someone is near it* is a good/safe thing, of course slamming wedges will help with felling the tree but my instinct is to use as-few-as-possible when making my rear-cut, just-enough to keep my bar moving freely / not enough that I'm exerting real / significant upward-pressure!
 
(oh had a couple other intentions I'd forgot, one is to use straps something like 1.5" nylon webbing to 'brace' the trunking, have seen the recommendation of using (2) slings one at 1' above the cuts/hinge & another a few feet above that. Also, I've been thinking of bracing it *backwards* / against-the-fall just for while-cutting because the idea is to have the thing stay in-place til the rope's are pulling its top & nobody is nearby the trunk itself thankfully have appropriate length&strength lines for this I figure 2 people pulling 2 ropes each using a pulley should be at least 800lbs(if 200lbs generated per-person, guess 600lbs may be better guess so-long-as my pulleys are lined-up perfect, I've got swivels so should be able to set them up ideal/optimal, I went up last night and cut a little groove for the ropes & set the ropes[whcih are just bundled & hanging off the trunk right now!] and, while near the tip-top of the trunking I found that it had WAY more wobble than I'd have guessed, enough that I didn't use full-force to test its degree of wobble in fact, and it was wobble at the lower trunk not the split-area where the limb fell from because I made-certain my feet were clear beneath that so that it wouldn't include flex from the top-most, broken portion of the trunk...so yeah this guy wants to fall, badly, reminding me to jot-down my ideas of strapping the trunk to 'girdle' it[gently-enough I imagine..] and of having an opposite-direction / backwards tag-line from the top so it can be better-managed / supported while I'm nearby it making those last cuts, don't wanna be near that thing when it starts to go as I expect that deadwood goes deeper-inside the heartwood than-suspected, with Live Oaks that happens often-enough where the dieback is exaggerated and live vein / callousing-bark-edge is just following it, have seen tons of ages-old oversized cavities in seemingly-sound Live Oaks)
 
(oh had a couple other intentions I'd forgot, one is to use straps something like 1.5" nylon webbing to 'brace' the trunking, have seen the recommendation of using (2) slings one at 1' above the cuts/hinge & another a few feet above that. Also, I've been thinking of bracing it *backwards* / against-the-fall just for while-cutting because the idea is to have the thing stay in-place til the rope's are pulling its top & nobody is nearby the trunk itself thankfully have appropriate length&strength lines for this I figure 2 people pulling 2 ropes each using a pulley should be at least 800lbs(if 200lbs generated per-person, guess 600lbs may be better guess so-long-as my pulleys are lined-up perfect, I've got swivels so should be able to set them up ideal/optimal, I went up last night and cut a little groove for the ropes & set the ropes[whcih are just bundled & hanging off the trunk right now!] and, while near the tip-top of the trunking I found that it had WAY more wobble than I'd have guessed, enough that I didn't use full-force to test its degree of wobble in fact, and it was wobble at the lower trunk not the split-area where the limb fell from because I made-certain my feet were clear beneath that so that it wouldn't include flex from the top-most, broken portion of the trunk...so yeah this guy wants to fall, badly, reminding me to jot-down my ideas of strapping the trunk to 'girdle' it[gently-enough I imagine..] and of having an opposite-direction / backwards tag-line from the top so it can be better-managed / supported while I'm nearby it making those last cuts, don't wanna be near that thing when it starts to go as I expect that deadwood goes deeper-inside the heartwood than-suspected, with Live Oaks that happens often-enough where the dieback is exaggerated and live vein / callousing-bark-edge is just following it, have seen tons of ages-old oversized cavities in seemingly-sound Live Oaks)
Use a winch. Guys aint pulling that beast over. Do you have a tree that the winch can get tied off to? I use 12k winch and have done well. I'm not pulling hard leaners the opposite way but works well to guide some lean with the correct notch
 
I've got this Live Oak (76lbs/cu.ft., heaviest tree I know by quite a bit) that lost a massive limb - that made/fed its entire canopy - in a storm about a month ago, smashed the fence dead-center on a panel and is currently a big stump/staub(am I using that word correctly?) that I've had sitting for like 1mo because I'm unsure on whether I've got everything taken into-consideration to safely fell it - not only does it have that increasing-as-it-gets-taller lean, it's got like 5 or 7 sq ft of dead-trunk on the rear (rear relative to felling direction, I intend to fell this 100.0% in-line with where it wants to / leans to, further fencing damage is just fine / easy to fix I just want to be sure I drop this w/o it losing control (never fell anything with this much lean before, in fact have fell only a handful of trees this thick..) The slight slope in the ground is as perfect as I could hope for, as-is the lean's direction, in terms of nearly-perfectly aimed *away-from* the house!!!

Picture-album , see how much this thing *wants* to fall, its nutrition has only been cut-off a month but that should mean *some* degree of change in bark//sap//hardwood movement...that lean just gets steeper as the trunk goes up and that was the area feeding the fallen limb/canopy so it's heavy-as-can-be and counter-balanced against a rear-bottom that's got a spot that'd started dying I feel like I should be aiming above that so-far as my hinge-height (having the hinge *alongside* the interfacing of live&deadwood seems it'd be incredibly unpredictable), but essentially just doing ~85%(?) as much actual cutting as a true-vertical tree will let me get it weakened enough that a 1/2" tag-line / pull-line from the top will suffice in "that last 15%" so to speak (am picturing anywhere between ~50% to 90% as much cutting as normal actually maybe 80% is a better upper-bound) but am seeing it as something where the actual felling isn't done with the cutting the is merely to make it nice&ready-for a clean and easy snap from the trunk-base (going to have my hinge-height a bit higher as I want to make a planter out of the stump instead of dealing with it, figure it's an easy way to have a neat a planter for a while!), will primarily be pulling via the 1/2" bull line from the trunk's top to my truck's hitch (using 1 or more pulleys in my truck-bed as-needed, truck itself isn't reliable-enough for the subtle-pressurse I'd use for pulling something and it's sand here / I'll be across the lawn 35' from the tree)

Is there a good safe way of just doing a 'normal' type of hinging on something like this? I expect(&hope!!) that it's OK to just cut a moderate hinge, then plunge cuts (center of notch/hinge or through the sides only?), then like 50% of the rear-cut, then get clear of it and rely upon the leverage applied via the rope (eyeballing that trunk, I suck at this but it must be a ton maybe ton and a half, 76lbs/cu.ft.) as, using pulleys, I can generate a ton of pressure and I'm not trying to alter its fall/favor/lean I'm just 'helping it' go down - can't help but wondering if it's worth bringing the saw up (when setting the taglines, will be 2 as I want *some* degree of control from someone holding the rope will probably set that with a sling & pulley for 2:1 advantage for them while they pull alongside my pulling from within the truck-bed, the 2nd line is going to be a 3/8" it's wimpy but should be fine & isn't critical it's really just to prevent any surprising deadwood-fault-lines throwing the thing off-kilter too-much and hurting more fencing than-necessary (hitting another panel on either side doesn't matter although this thing looks like it just wants to go directly where its fallen-limb went through the fence,) I'm not at-all worried about getting the thing to fall I'm worried about doing it as safely as possible because I don't know that this will even creak before it's ready to just slam down, it's got wayyy too strong a lean I think just strategically cutting a hinge & relying on the bull rope is fine- can't get myself to proceed as I'm not sure on it so thanks a ton for any&all advice/tips/etc, am wondering if *wayyy* more of this should be via the bull rope I mean that trunk shouldn't need *that* much coersion from the pull-line after notching & plunging (I feel like the rear-cut is the dicey part because of the chance of underestimating how strong the remaining trunk is for the weight it's holding so want to aim & do a more minimal rear cut and then rely on the rope(s, as the 2nd line is still tension even though it's a true 'tag-line' for not letting it get too-far to its side!)

Thanks a ton for all helpful input it is really appreciated!! :)

[really starting to think I should cut a quick groove into the rear of the trunk's top as a channel for the pull-lines to grab, just for that extra security since - once I've made my cuts & started tensioning that thing - at that point I'd imagine it's incredibly dangerous to be going back into its fall-zone , let alone having to go and try to cut the trunk furtthter..between (2) pull-lines with a person using a 2:1, at least, pulley on each line, one 1/2" line and one 3/8" line with 2:1 advantage must be generating over a thousand pounds maybe get that closer to a ton if setup a 5:1 on the 1/2" line to my truck but I imagine 500lbs of pull-force, at that angle on this trunk, would set-of / crack any halfway-there hinging that was at that sweet-spot down low?!]View attachment 758052

From your photograph it looks like you could pull it to where your little silver flask is sitting if a rope was tied to the top.
If you are worried about decay at the center, don't go to deep with the mouth. Stay in the live outer white wood? When you do your back cut/felling cut be sure to leave a good four inch parallel hinge
If you have another tree to put the pulling end of your rope around you could set up a Carter's hitch to give you more pulling power. Three or four people could then pull it over. Or. Phone an arborist and give him some dollars?
Here's an example of a Carter's/truckers hitch
 
1 thing I have learned is that wbf is a rocket scientist when it comes to felling techniques after reading some of his felling posts. I have to go get my how to fell a tree book to comprehend what he is saying sometimes. I'm a weekender felling specialist lol so I'm only familiar with a few things Humboldt, open face, and conventional. Also leaving wood on certain sides of the back cut to help with direction and have tried a couple bore cuts. Luckily a majority of the trees I cut direction isn't a big issue.
 
Did you drop this thing yet?

If not, please pay a professional. They can do a job like this in their sleep. And safely.
I don't mind the two years old part. You wrote a book on this. lol It would be nice if you would show some pics with the thing on the ground. Also, I hope you moved the grill before dropping it. JMHO :cool:
 
I'm new hare. (today) I was dismayed to read this post.
This is an easy job for a qualified arborist. Even easier for the poster! All he has to do is dial a phone and pay!
As an arborist, (retired) I was happy to drop and collect. Easy money and fewer accidents.

Question: When an unqualified person causes a mishap, is that really an accident?
 
I'm new hare. (today) I was dismayed to read this post.
This is an easy job for a qualified arborist. Even easier for the poster! All he has to do is dial a phone and pay!
As an arborist, (retired) I was happy to drop and collect. Easy money and fewer accidents.

Question: When an unqualified person causes a mishap, is that really an accident?
Welcome sir.

Yes, it's an accident.
 
I'm new hare. (today) I was dismayed to read this post.
This is an easy job for a qualified arborist. Even easier for the poster! All he has to do is dial a phone and pay!
As an arborist, (retired) I was happy to drop and collect. Easy money and fewer accidents.

Question: When an unqualified person causes a mishap, is that really an accident?



It is no more of an accident than if a person jumps out of a plane with no parachute and hits the ground.
 
Reminds me of the old joke. What's the difference between a welder and a farmer?

A welder doesnt think he can farm.

Knowing when to call a pro is a weakness of men who refuse to ask for directions.
 
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