Lessons learned on 045/056 Rebuilds

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TRTermite

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I LIKE my Magnums A LOT. Biggest issue I have is not with the saw but with myself. I used them for years to cut firewood. Not a one saw plan but a one sized (2 or 3) saw plan. Later in life I am dealing with left hand carpal tunnel and I am right handed. Too much flipping the big saw around when I should have had a smaller trim saw.... There are a lot of options now compared to a few yeas ago for after market seals bearings/seals/ignitions and ignition repairs. The AM stuff seems to have flushed some of the NOS stuff off of the shelf. I have yet to try any of the After Market P/Cs or ignitions but the gas caps have been good so far except the retainer on the chain is chincey, I reuse the OEM ones. Haven't seen any reviews on the Saggen Penzi Sems GA coil yet. These Am parts have boosted what the 056 saws are bringing (I think)
 

George Hurchalla

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I LIKE my Magnums A LOT. Biggest issue I have is not with the saw but with myself. I used them for years to cut firewood. Not a one saw plan but a one sized (2 or 3) saw plan. Later in life I am dealing with left hand carpal tunnel and I am right handed. Too much flipping the big saw around when I should have had a smaller trim saw.... There are a lot of options now compared to a few yeas ago for after market seals bearings/seals/ignitions and ignition repairs. The AM stuff seems to have flushed some of the NOS stuff off of the shelf. I have yet to try any of the After Market P/Cs or ignitions but the gas caps have been good so far except the retainer on the chain is chincey, I reuse the OEM ones. Haven't seen any reviews on the Saggen Penzi Sems GA coil yet. These Am parts have boosted what the 056 saws are bringing (I think)
I'm looking forward to the day I like my Supers a lot. Botched another crank seal install, the ignition side seems trickier than anyone else has suggested without a sleeve tool to keep it from folding. Thought I lubricated it enough with two stroke oil it should have been fine. I noticed the one saw I apparently folded the seal on before was way harder to turn over than it should have been initially because there was so much pressure from the folded seal. I only understand that now, I couldn't figure out what was binding so much before. The new seal isn't sealing at all and really hard to turn the crankshaft again and looking at it I'm pretty sure I folded the new one over installing it. Grrrr, need to be more patient doing this.
 

TRTermite

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I'm looking forward to the day I like my Supers a lot. Botched another crank seal install, the ignition side seems trickier than anyone else has suggested without a sleeve tool to keep it from folding. Thought I lubricated it enough with two stroke oil it should have been fine. I noticed the one saw I apparently folded the seal on before was way harder to turn over than it should have been initially because there was so much pressure from the folded seal. I only understand that now, I couldn't figure out what was binding so much before. The new seal isn't sealing at all and really hard to turn the crankshaft again and looking at it I'm pretty sure I folded the new one over installing it. Grrrr, need to be more patient doing this.
Just did another crank /bearings/seals. Hope I don't have your misfortune. Did you put your bearings in a prewarmed case? That may explain some alignment issues. When I split a case on a 056 I remove the 2 locating pins before trying to "MAKE the BREAK" seems to help a lot.
 

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Those metal clad thin walled seals like to hang the lip during install especially the smaller id ones. I found I need to closely check every install and use a very fine tipped pick to get under the lip edge then roll the lip back into position half the time, I also twist them as I push them up the crank to the bearing. If you catch the rolled lip right after install it can be corrected without damaging the seal.
 
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I'm leaving for Lake Tahoe to celebrate Independence Day but when I get back I'll see if I can figure out how to get that video onto my laptop. It started on VHS then was made into a DVD and this laptop still has a DVD player so maybe I can get one of my techno friends to put it on my laptop and then I can post it here. I'm really low tech, still have a flip phone and just stated texting this last winter so I'll probably need help. As I recall it's about 30 minutes long and was filmed near Truckee California. In fact, the photographer pans across the big canyon and you can see Squaw Valley ski resort with no snow in the distance. This was the worst logging job of my life and even worse for one of my employees as he got killed on that job. The only good thing was that the autopsy said he died either instantly upon impact or within moments. He was only 23 years old with an 18 month old baby.
Ted Goodwin- "A loggers life is a short and painful hitch between the cradle and the grave."
I fully commend real life stories from folks that actually do or did the work,
 

George Hurchalla

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Just did another crank /bearings/seals. Hope I don't have your misfortune. Did you put your bearings in a prewarmed case? That may explain some alignment issues. When I split a case on a 056 I remove the 2 locating pins before trying to "MAKE the BREAK" seems to help a lot.
Yeah, prewarmed the case on both saws - one is fine and has no binding and the AM nitrile (non-steel rimmed) seal holds pressure well and the other saw I've tried to put an OEM steel rimmed seal in twice has been heavily binding in comparison and beginning to think it's alignment on it. I'll check on movement without the seal installed which I haven't really done and if it still has some of that overall binding feel I should split the case and start over again. To be honest I don't know the seal is the problem, I messed about a lot trying to correct it and it seemed like it wasn't folded. I think I mighta just forced things a bit too much on the rejoining of that crankcase and ended up with a non-aligned crankshaft. I should suck it up and split that case again and start over on that saw.
 

TRTermite

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Yeah, prewarmed the case on both saws - one is fine and has no binding and the AM nitrile (non-steel rimmed) seal holds pressure well and the other saw I've tried to put an OEM steel rimmed seal in twice has been heavily binding in comparison and beginning to think it's alignment on it. I'll check on movement without the seal installed which I haven't really done and if it still has some of that overall binding feel I should split the case and start over again. To be honest I don't know the seal is the problem, I messed about a lot trying to correct it and it seemed like it wasn't folded. I think I mighta just forced things a bit too much on the rejoining of that crankcase and ended up with a non-aligned crankshaft. I should suck it up and split that case again and start over on that saw.
I did have too give the case and crank a few TLC taps and the one that made the difference was on the bottom of the crank lobes/counter weights. Didn't take much and it was still a small ball pein hammer.
 

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I did have too give the case and crank a few TLC taps and the one that made the difference was on the bottom of the crank lobes/counter weights. Didn't take much and it was still a small ball pein hammer.
The more I read, the more I'm certain my problem is a cockeyed bearing install. Also remembering on the second case the install was a major PITA when I'd read with warmed cases (and even better bearings in the freezer) the bearings should literally fall into place. Both were nothing close to that though and the first case I think I got right and the second one I just forced it way too hard with my shop press. In a private conversation with PogointheWoods about his rebuild experiences, he suggested before I do anything major to try seating things with a few good hammer blows to the crankshaft and by damn if that didn't free up all the chafing and make it turn smooth now. Wish I'd had the sense to do that months ago instead of chasing my tail endlessly. Mistakes of my first full rebuilds, not surprising. Live and learn.
 

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Still learning lessons - while I managed to pressure test well sealing the intake and exhaust on one saw with strips of bicycle innertube, the other saw refused to build up pressure at all. Finally got the intake reasonably well sealed but couldn't get the exhaust to seal with it. There are tiny ridges in the rubber that make it not seal perfectly that I thought were maybe the problem. Just couldn't figure out when I was getting zero leakage from the crank seals spraying soapy water on them, where the hell the leaks were coming from. Realized it was kind of dumb that I've never bothered buying sheets of gasket material because I'd save a bunch of money making my own gaskets and it would be handy for instances like this when I needed to seal off something properly. Funny how out of convenience we've gotten used to paying 10-15 times the cost of gasket material just to buy ones pre-made. The lazy ones of us that is, lol. Strange that I got the innertube rubber to seal so well on the one saw and hardly at all on the other. Ah, still no luck and think I finally nailed why. Muffler face is warped. See air bubbling around the bottom when I spray around it. Filing that flat should have been part and parcel of a rebuild but never occurred to me it would be that warped, just assumed a new gasket and I'd be fine. Not real bright.
 

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Made up a little seal install tool out of a thin plastic tube a large drill bit came in, fit perfectly over the crank. Got one of my new OEM seals installed on the nicer of the two saws. It had been pressure testing fine once I got some Loctite around the outer race on the clutch side, so put it back together and gave it a whirl. Seems like it may be good, have to work on the high speed tuning but got it idling well and did one brief test cut that went well with my 36" lo pro setup. Didn't seem to be spitting gas anymore. Having to screw the high speed jet all the way in to run right so don't know if it's a fixed jet carb or was a shoddy rebuild - it's a rebuilt Tillotson I recently bought on Ebay. Should probably put one of the three carbs on it I rebuilt and deep cleaned ultrasonically to see if they do the same. If they do, back to the drawing board and pressure test again.
 

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Sorry to hear that you're having so many challenges on your rebuilds. It was a long time ago but I rebuilt quite a few 045/056's and don't remember having so many problems. Of course, there's a lot of things I don't remember so maybe I'm just not remembering. I do recall my wife complaining about saw parts being in the freezer while other parts were in the oven. I do have memories of frequent carb rebuilds on both Tillotson's and Walbro's. Not sure why there were so many rebuilds. I think there was a third carb, Zama or something like that but not too sure. Ignition switches were a common wear item too. Clutch springs and drum bearings along with bar plates were prone to wear too. I traded all my parts (and I had a lot) with my local dealer for parts on newer saws that replaced the 45's and 56's. I'll look around my shop as I think I saw a few crank seals for these saws somewhere. If I find them you can have them. My gift to a fellow aficionado. Glad to hear you got one running!
 

George Hurchalla

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I do recall my wife complaining about saw parts being in the freezer while other parts were in the oven. I do have memories of frequent carb rebuilds on both Tillotson's and Walbro's. Not sure why there were so many rebuilds. I think there was a third carb,
My wife said when I updated her on the one saw seeming to run okay - "Does this mean when you're done I never have to hear about them again?" She's heard more about these two saws than she ever wanted to hear about chainsaws. My problems have been my lack of experience for the most part with ever doing a total rebuild - lack of knowledge of tricks of the trade and basic common sense. (Don't just assume seal installation went okay, pressure test it.) Not that complicated, just wasted huge amounts of time barking up the wrong tree rebuilding and messing with carbs when I never checked my bearing and seal installs in the first place to ensure they went okay. My second saw wasn't turning as freely after the initial rebuild as it should have and it never occurred to me I hadn't seated the bearings right and it was chafing. All that took was a few good whacks with a hammer in the end on each side and it was good. I did piston and jug replacements before this without much trouble, but splitting a case and doing bearing installs was new to me. It didn't help that I didn't get enough contrast in hot/cold between bearings and cases. Heated the cases a lot I thought, but should have frozen the bearings beforehand because they required way more pressing force than they should have and didn't seat right in the one saw as a result. I should have evenly heated the cases in the oven rather than trying to quickly heat them with a torch which clearly didn't work that well. But my first piston/jug install I ever did was 2-3 times as long as all the ones I've done since, I'm used to everything being way harder the first time. I just work on so many different damn things - cars, outboard engines, chainsaws, machinery, welding, woodworking, fabricating - that it seems a never ending process of there being another "first time" to learn something lol.
 

TRTermite

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My wife said when I updated her on the one saw seeming to run okay - "Does this mean when you're done I never have to hear about them again?" She's heard more about these two saws than she ever wanted to hear about chainsaws. My problems have been my lack of experience for the most part with ever doing a total rebuild - lack of knowledge of tricks of the trade and basic common sense. (Don't just assume seal installation went okay, pressure test it.) Not that complicated, just wasted huge amounts of time barking up the wrong tree rebuilding and messing with carbs when I never checked my bearing and seal installs in the first place to ensure they went okay. My second saw wasn't turning as freely after the initial rebuild as it should have and it never occurred to me I hadn't seated the bearings right and it was chafing. All that took was a few good whacks with a hammer in the end on each side and it was good. I did piston and jug replacements before this without much trouble, but splitting a case and doing bearing installs was new to me. It didn't help that I didn't get enough contrast in hot/cold between bearings and cases. Heated the cases a lot I thought, but should have frozen the bearings beforehand because they required way more pressing force than they should have and didn't seat right in the one saw as a result. I should have evenly heated the cases in the oven rather than trying to quickly heat them with a torch which clearly didn't work that well. But my first piston/jug install I ever did was 2-3 times as long as all the ones I've done since, I'm used to everything being way harder the first time. I just work on so many different damn things - cars, outboard engines, chainsaws, machinery, welding, woodworking, fabricating - that it seems a never ending process of there being another "first time" to learn something lol.
And an AMEN to your last sentence.
 

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Kind of an old thread, but there was one oddball late model Tillotson carb used on the 056 saws, HS221A, that had a main fuel bypass circuit built into it. Runs & cuts well with the Hi needle almost closed. You might have that same carb…

Strange that it was never listed in any Tillotson application files nor Stihl IPLs & have only come across two saws in many years with it installed.
 

TRTermite

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Kind of an old thread, but there was one oddball late model Tillotson carb used on the 056 saws, HS221A, that had a main fuel bypass circuit built into it. Runs & cuts well with the Hi needle almost closed. You might have that same carb…

Strange that it was never listed in any Tillotson application files nor Stihl IPLs & have only come across two saws in many years with it installed.
I will have to check a couple of my later serial # ones have the sticker showing "0" turns for the high screw .. I think they were the Walbro. After being used to the Tillotson settings I got caught assuming, And I assumed the wrong setting.
 
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