Log splitter dump valve installation and pressure adjustment questions

[Socalmisfit]

So I want to put a dump valve on my splitter, I kind of get how the system works and I believe all the return oil flows through the log lift side of the system. All those hoses are smaller so more restriction. By the looks of it I would hook a & b from the cylinder to the dump and then into the return if I’m understanding it right. I’m wanting to add the dump for faster recoil and help to keep the oil cooler. I understand I’m gonna still have heat but if I can shove it straight back to the tank and not through the detents it should help a little.
Next question my pump pressure can’t be set, it is set through the detent and the valve has a fixed pressure of 2000 psi. If I got a different valve could I then adjust the pressure up, or buy a valve with a higher fixed rate? Like I said I am new to hydraulics and I get the basics. I also understand the less restrictions I have in the system the cooler the system runs, and that’s what I am trying to accomplish.
I also understand that I can put a 5” ram and get a higher splitting force, but a valve is cheaper than a ram. I’m not exactly sure how much more force 500-1000 more psi would make but if it would get what I’m looking for I would like to try it. I know adding more pressure puts more of a working load on the cylinder but if the cylinder is rated at 3000 I’d like to be somewhere from 25-2800.
I don’t run an auto cycle so I will be there to make sure stuff don’t get tore up with the added force. Just want to get a little more out of the system with out the huge cost of a bigger ram. If after doing these upgrades, if I’m on the right path and they can work, and I’m still looking for more than a bigger cylinder it is. After that I’ll have more questions about the oil cooler I will need thanks guys.

 

[nathan4104]

The dump valve may help with your oil temp a bit, and maybe a bit on your return speed, but if you gain more than a second or 2 that would be all I bet.
As for splitting force, are you running into a lot of wood you can’t split now? Going to a bigger cylinder may solve that issue, but you’ll go a lot slower. Ying and yang.....
Sure a different valve with an adjustable relief would allow you to set a higher pressure, if the pump and motor have the power to supply it! So you have a Single or 2 stage pump? Your higher pressure will only be of use on the slow speed/high pressure side, so again, assuming you must be running into a lot of wood you can’t split now?
take smaller bites off the round? Noodle it with a saw first? Forget the massive rounds and stick with pecker pole wood like me and use smaller/cheaper equipment
Want strong and fast? Get your wallet out, that’s the only way.

 

[Socalmisfit]

The dump valve may help with your oil temp a bit, and maybe a bit on your return speed, but if you gain more than a second or 2 that would be all I bet.
As for splitting force, are you running into a lot of wood you can’t split now? Going to a bigger cylinder may solve that issue, but you’ll go a lot slower. Ying and yang.....
Sure a different valve with an adjustable relief would allow you to set a higher pressure, if the pump and motor have the power to supply it! So you have a Single or 2 stage pump? Your higher pressure will only be of use on the slow speed/high pressure side, so again, assuming you must be running into a lot of wood you can’t split now?
take smaller bites off the round? Noodle it with a saw first? Forget the massive rounds and stick with pecker pole wood like me and use smaller/cheaper equipment
Want strong and fast? Get your wallet out, that’s the only way.

It’s a 2 stage pump, it splits 95% of the wood I got. It’s the eucalyptus it don’t like. Some of the pieces are just so wound up it ridiculous. The dump valve is mostly for the oil temps, the splitter is fast enough, just wasn’t sure if those little thing would help out. Motor don’t bog down when it hits the reliefs point, it just seems like a little more pressure would help it out. On my old splitter it would bog down and kill itself, this one just releases the pressure. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Are you talking about a pilot operated check valve?

Unless you are flowing more on the return stroke than a standard control valve and lines can handle, there's no purpose. (Referred to as blind end output)
It's mostly a problem on higher flowing systems that have cylinders with large rods. Such as a 4" cylinder with 3.25" rod

Sounds like you may have issues with the current plumbing that just needs to be sorted out.
Figure out the flow rates and lookup what size tubes or hoses are needed.

 

[nathan4104]

I doubt the dump valve will help much with oil temp in your case. You’re gonna be spending a few hundred bucks to get it on with a few fittings and a few new hoses. Like Choppy mentioned, it’s really only gonna help with a cylinder that has a large rod. I happened to do that to mine.... so the dump valve helped me, or al least the effect of spending a lot of money makes me think it helped!!
you may be better off plumbing in a bigger tank for more fluid, adding a second tank, or adding some sort of heat exchanger/cooler if you are worried about temp.
Have you used a temp gun to see what you are running at? Point it around and look for hot spots maybe?

 

[Socalmisfit]

I doubt the dump valve will help much with oil temp in your case. You’re gonna be spending a few hundred bucks to get it on with a few fittings and a few new hoses. Like Choppy mentioned, it’s really only gonna help with a cylinder that has a large rod. I happened to do that to mine.... so the dump valve helped me, or al least the effect of spending a lot of money makes me think it helped!!
you may be better off plumbing in a bigger tank for more fluid, adding a second tank, or adding some sort of heat exchanger/cooler if you are worried about temp.
Have you used a temp gun to see what you are running at? Point it around and look for hot spots maybe?

I’m gonna temp it next time I run it hard. It gets hot, not hot enough not to touch, but hot enough for me to wonder. U know a place that sell coolers?

 

[nathan4104]

If you can touch it, then it’s not too hot. You want it to get hot enough to keep the water out of it.....
a tranny cooler or oil cooler from a junk yard would work, any hydraulics shop could get you something too maybe even have something used.

 

[Del_]

Great discussion fellows!

I'd like to add that for setting pressure adjustments on my log splitter I've got a high pressure rated 'T' on the back end of the 5" cylinder. This is where I insert the pressure gauge for adjustment purposes. After I set the pressure I take the gauge out and put a plug in the 'T'. I use the same gauge for setting up the pressure on the hydraulic motors on my Bandit 250 XP, which also has a 'T' installed. I've used the same gauge for over 30 years and no way would it have lasted that long had it been permanently installed.

 

[Socalmisfit]

So my valve is a fixed 2000 psi valve. If I put an adjustable valve, or buy the valve that would allow mine to be adjustable, I could bump up the pressure and gain 10000lbs. At 2000 psi with 4” ram & 2” rod it is 25000 lbs. 2500 psi gives u 31000lbs, and 2800 is 35000lbs. The system is rated at 3000 psi, if I add the 500 psi them maybe I would hear the engine labor when splitting some gnarly eucalyptus instead of just releasing.
I ran the system today trying to pin point a small leak, the leak was on the log lift valve. After about an hr the temp was up above 140 degrees. So if at 500 psi more was to put me up in the red zone which I believe is 180 degrees, I could then add a cooler and be good. I would like the splitter at least try to split the wood rather than just release the pressure before the motor even labors. So I get it, I need an adjustable valve.
As for the dump valve I understand it doesn’t eliminate all heat but any help keeping the system cool before adding the cooler, and speeding up the recoil by 1-2 seconds is tempting. I just have to look into lines and fittings.

 

[cantoo]

I also thought I would do this to my homemade 36" splitter to hopefully save some seconds. After a bunch of research I decided that it just wasn't worth the cost involved. I made my own tank so it was big enough so I just upped the amount of oil in the tank. When I ran my splitter the cylinder would get hot enough that you could not hole your hand on it. Adding more oil and covering the tank from the sun and putting a cover over the motor so that the exhaust and heat from it was directed away from the splitting area seemed to make a difference to me. I also kept a better eye on the rounds as I put them on the splitter, things like always putting the butt to the wedge, positioning rounds so they split thru the center of crotches instead of having to slice thru the branches. And the biggest was throwing the few nasties to the side instead of wasting time splitting on them and building up heat. To save more than just a few seconds I took the money and added an auto cycle valve. In my opinion that gave me the biggest bang for my buck. It takes me hours to drop trees, load them up, bring them home, buck them to rounds and I was worried about saving a few seconds on the splitting cycle. Best to save some effort on your body so you can be more productive I think. The actual splitting of wood is the least amount of time that I spend on firewooding.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

So my valve is a fixed 2000 psi valve. If I put an adjustable valve, or buy the valve that would allow mine to be adjustable, I could bump up the pressure and gain 10000lbs. At 2000 psi with 4” ram & 2” rod it is 25000 lbs. 2500 psi gives u 31000lbs, and 2800 is 35000lbs. The system is rated at 3000 psi, if I add the 500 psi them maybe I would hear the engine labor when splitting some gnarly eucalyptus instead of just releasing.
I ran the system today trying to pin point a small leak, the leak was on the log lift valve. After about an hr the temp was up above 140 degrees. So if at 500 psi more was to put me up in the red zone which I believe is 180 degrees, I could then add a cooler and be good. I would like the splitter at least try to split the wood rather than just release the pressure before the motor even labors. So I get it, I need an adjustable valve.
As for the dump valve I understand it doesn’t eliminate all heat but any help keeping the system cool before adding the cooler, and speeding up the recoil by 1-2 seconds is tempting. I just have to look into lines and fittings.

150-180* is a normal operating range.

A pilot operated check valve isn't going to reduce cycle speed unless the current return path can't flow enough and is causing a restriction.
Typically this is an issue with higher flow and large rod cylinders.
Example, a 35gpm system using a 3.25" rod on a 4" cylinder.
Blind end flow would be around 100gpm.

A 4" cylinder with 2" rod shouldn't be any issue.
At 16 gpm, blind end output is only about 20 gpm.
Most splitter valves can easily handle that.


Going through and properly sizing everything will help with heat. Though it would need to be well undersized to be causing issues on a splitter.

Some photos and details on your machine would help in being able to figure out any issues.

 

[Socalmisfit]

I also thought I would do this to my homemade 36" splitter to hopefully save some seconds. After a bunch of research I decided that it just wasn't worth the cost involved. I made my own tank so it was big enough so I just upped the amount of oil in the tank. When I ran my splitter the cylinder would get hot enough that you could not hole your hand on it. Adding more oil and covering the tank from the sun and putting a cover over the motor so that the exhaust and heat from it was directed away from the splitting area seemed to make a difference to me. I also kept a better eye on the rounds as I put them on the splitter, things like always putting the butt to the wedge, positioning rounds so they split thru the center of crotches instead of having to slice thru the branches. And the biggest was throwing the few nasties to the side instead of wasting time splitting on them and building up heat. To save more than just a few seconds I took the money and added an auto cycle valve. In my opinion that gave me the biggest bang for my buck. It takes me hours to drop trees, load them up, bring them home, buck them to rounds and I was worried about saving a few seconds on the splitting cycle. Best to save some effort on your body so you can be more productive I think. The actual splitting of wood is the least amount of time that I spend on firewooding.

How many psi are u running your system at?

 

[Socalmisfit]

150-180* is a normal operating range.

A pilot operated check valve isn't going to reduce cycle speed unless the current return path can't flow enough and is causing a restriction.
Typically this is an issue with higher flow and large rod cylinders.
Example, a 35gpm system using a 3.25" rod on a 4" cylinder.
Blind end flow would be around 100gpm.

A 4" cylinder with 2" rod shouldn't be any issue.
At 16 gpm, blind end output is only about 20 gpm.
Most splitter valves can easily handle that.


Going through and properly sizing everything will help with heat. Though it would need to be well undersized to be causing issues on a splitter.

Some photos and details on your machine would help in being able to figure out any issues.

Heat isn’t the biggest issue, the psi the system is running at is what I’m concerned with. I am fixed at 2000 psi. If I bump the psi up I get more splitting force. 500 psi gets me 6000 more lbs of force, 800 would put me up around 31000. Seems a lot cheeper than getting a bigger cylinder. That’s when the heat factor may take place. I don’t need a dump, would be nice to have. But if I bumped the psi, and had heat problems. Easiest way to fix would be a cooler or bigger tank. To me a cooler sounds less expensive, due to oil changes.

 

[Del_]

Make sure the rest of the splitter can take the extra force.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Heat isn’t the biggest issue, the psi the system is running at is what I’m concerned with. I am fixed at 2000 psi. If I bump the psi up I get more splitting force. 500 psi gets me 6000 more lbs of force, 800 would put me up around 31000. Seems a lot cheeper than getting a bigger cylinder. That’s when the heat factor may take place. I don’t need a dump, would be nice to have. But if I bumped the psi, and had heat problems. Easiest way to fix would be a cooler or bigger tank. To me a cooler sounds less expensive, due to oil changes.

Raising the pressure isn't going to raise the temperature of the oil. In fact, it'll lower it if you are constantly bypassing oil through the pressure relief.
Running a system constantly against a pressure relief will quickly heat it up.

 

[kevin j]

The dump valve can help with heat generation, but it won’t affect speed unless you were grossly undersized on the return path. If your goal is to reduce the back pressure when you’re splitting, thus giving you more force at the rod, it won’t have any effect when you’re splitting (extending) because it only opens the flow path from the closed side to tank when the cylinder is retracting. It’s just a blocked port when the cylinder is extending.
As Choppy said, raising your relief valve setting may actually reduce the heat because The cylinder will keep moving and you’ll split the wood rather than passing flow across relief valve at 2000 psi and creating heat. But you do have to make sure the structural can take 50% more force, and that all your hydraulic system components are rated at 3000 psi which they probably are.

 

[Socalmisfit]

The dump valve can help with heat generation, but it won’t affect speed unless you were grossly undersized on the return path. If your goal is to reduce the back pressure when you’re splitting, thus giving you more force at the rod, it won’t have any effect when you’re splitting (extending) because it only opens the flow path from the closed side to tank when the cylinder is retracting. It’s just a blocked port when the cylinder is extending.
As Choppy said, raising your relief valve setting may actually reduce the heat because The cylinder will keep moving and you’ll split the wood rather than passing flow across relief valve at 2000 psi and creating heat. But you do have to make sure the structural can take 50% more force, and that all your hydraulic system components are rated at 3000 psi which they probably are.

All components are rated at 3000, I will make sure the framework can handle the extra force. I don’t have an auto valve so I will be at the helm the whole time.

 

[Socalmisfit]

I also thought I would do this to my homemade 36" splitter to hopefully save some seconds. After a bunch of research I decided that it just wasn't worth the cost involved. I made my own tank so it was big enough so I just upped the amount of oil in the tank. When I ran my splitter the cylinder would get hot enough that you could not hole your hand on it. Adding more oil and covering the tank from the sun and putting a cover over the motor so that the exhaust and heat from it was directed away from the splitting area seemed to make a difference to me. I also kept a better eye on the rounds as I put them on the splitter, things like always putting the butt to the wedge, positioning rounds so they split thru the center of crotches instead of having to slice thru the branches. And the biggest was throwing the few nasties to the side instead of wasting time splitting on them and building up heat. To save more than just a few seconds I took the money and added an auto cycle valve. In my opinion that gave me the biggest bang for my buck. It takes me hours to drop trees, load them up, bring them home, buck them to rounds and I was worried about saving a few seconds on the splitting cycle. Best to save some effort on your body so you can be more productive I think. The actual splitting of wood is the least amount of time that I spend on firewooding.

I agree, some stuff is just murder to split, and splitting is the fastest process. On my old splitter when the wedge would stick in the wood I could just back out and use the ears on the splitter to detach the stuck piece. Now that I’m pushing into the wedge if it stops with the wood 1-2 inches in the wood, it is murder to get that piece off of the wedge. I use a maul to beat it off. It’s like it just needs a little bit more to get it to the point of cracking it open.
I also see that when the wood isn’t positioned flat on the pusher, it will start to want to bind. So I am as careful as I can be with making sure I am giving the splitter the best chance to split. I don’t know if you’ve ever split eucalyptus, but some of it is just HARD & twisted, even the straight pieces. Cutting it is also a task.
When I split most of the time I have a helper, so someone is working the machine. So the auto cycle is something I don’t see needing right now. Also with having someone at the helm, we can watch for the pinch and make sure everything is working as it should. I appreciate all the feedback thank u.

 

[Socalmisfit]

150-180* is a normal operating range.

A pilot operated check valve isn't going to reduce cycle speed unless the current return path can't flow enough and is causing a restriction.
Typically this is an issue with higher flow and large rod cylinders.
Example, a 35gpm system using a 3.25" rod on a 4" cylinder.
Blind end flow would be around 100gpm.

A 4" cylinder with 2" rod shouldn't be any issue.
At 16 gpm, blind end output is only about 20 gpm.
Most splitter valves can easily handle that.


Going through and properly sizing everything will help with heat. Though it would need to be well undersized to be causing issues on a splitter.

Some photos and details on your machine would help in being able to figure out any issues.

Here is the system. Comes off the pump into the ram valve on the left. Then into the flow control. I believe it splits and let’s half the fluid go back and the other half goes through the log lift valve. Then that goes back into the tank as well. So it goes from a 3/4” id hose to two 1/2” id hoses back into the tank. Only downfall I see is if the fluid coming off the ram is not being able to pass out through the flow control fast enough. So the hose coming out of the left side of the flow control could be bigger?
I don’t think the system is over heating. 180 degrees is HOT. The splitting force doesn’t fall off and I feel no shudder after hours of splitting. My main want is a little more splitting force out of the system without changing the ram. I also believe with 5-800 more psi I can get there. Thank for the input.

 

[cantoo]

I have no idea what my PSI is, I installed gauges but never actually even look at them. They would still be on the factory settings. I have a hydraulic wedge with power up and down so if I do get a piece stuck I can just raise the wedge throw a split under the round and use down pressure to pop it off. My boiler has a 24x 24" door so I just cut the tough round in half to 16" and it go straight into the boiler. I split at least 95% ash so it's easy splitting for the most part.