Lowering large rounds off a slope

[Harlen]

We could use some advice on techniques for lowering large heavy oak rounds down a slope. Just finished the job felling a 40" Iiveoak (Q. agrifolia), and had one hell of a time lowering the rounds without damaging the house below. I found nothing about this online, and so I tried various techinques. I made a giant tarp out of very strong trampoline fabric, and wrapped the rounds in it, to be lowered by gathering the loose ends in with a running bowline, and lowering with the rope from above. My second new technique was to load the front end of a longer round (~4-5 feet) into a cart that I had removed wheels from, to better slide the wood down. Mixed results with that too, as it was too slow having to wrap the log in. Trying to get around these slow processes, my son and I tried our old standard-- 3/4" webbing girth-hitched around the log, 2 different straps in different directions of cinching pull to avoid loosing the wood round through loosening of a hitch. It worked alright, but several times we were very lucky not to have one get away from us. We had the rope well-wrapped around uphill trunks for friction control.

The background is that the client wanted all of the wood tranported to his wood stacking area below. We had to lower about 50-75,' and the forest floor was very soft. We could have cut the rounds thinner to make the weight more manageable, or split them with wedges above, but we were after the fastest technique to get the wood down. I reckon the rounds were between 250 and 300+ lbs!

What is a better, that is, more secure method? Thanks for the advice, Harlen.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

We could use some advice on techniques for lowering large heavy oak rounds down a slope. Just finished the job felling a 40" Iiveoak (Q. agrifolia), and had one hell of a time lowering the rounds without damaging the house below. I found nothing about this online, and so I tried various techinques. I made a giant tarp out of very strong trampoline fabric, and wrapped the rounds in it, to be lowered by gathering the loose ends in with a running bowline, and lowering with the rope from above. My second new technique was to load the front end of a longer round (~4-5 feet) into a cart that I had removed wheels from, to better slide the wood down. Mixed results with that too, as it was too slow having to wrap the log in. Trying to get around these slow processes, my son and I tried our old standard-- 3/4" webbing girth-hitched around the log, 2 different straps in different directions of cinching pull to avoid loosing the wood round through loosening of a hitch. It worked alright, but several times we were very lucky not to have one get away from us. We had the rope well-wrapped around uphill trunks for friction control.

The background is that the client wanted all of the wood tranported to his wood stacking area below. We had to lower about 50-75,' and the forest floor was very soft. We could have cut the rounds thinner to make the weight more manageable, or split them with wedges above, but we were after the fastest technique to get the wood down. I reckon the rounds were between 250 and 300+ lbs!

What is a better, that is, more secure method? Thanks for the advice, Harlen.

I’ve done this using a choker cable and winch on my truck, but cut the sections into 3-round logs cut into rounds at the bottom.
the choker held the log tight so some side to side shifting while lowering wasn’t an issue.
winching out does tend to heat up the drum so you have to let it cool down every few drops.

 

[Harlen]

Singinwoodwa, as a former choker-setter up in AK I can see how a real cable choker would hold better, or at least it would be unbreakable. I don't have any of that gear, nor even a truck right now. I am glad to hear that you also chose to lower large 3-round logs. I wondered if we were off base, thinking that they would hold better than lighter, but thinner single rounds. I wonder if there is a rope tying tech, a webbing set-up, some bomb-proof mesh bag, or ??? , with which to lower log rounds easily.

I get the sense that you are full on Sing., compared my now infrequent tree work jobs. All I know for sure is that I am going to expand my fee when this sort of work is involved. Thanks for your reply, Harlen.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Singinwoodwa, as a former choker-setter up in AK I can see how a real cable choker would hold better, or at least it would be unbreakable. I don't have any of that gear, nor even a truck right now. I am glad to hear that you also chose to lower large 3-round logs. I wondered if we were off base, thinking that they would hold better than lighter, but thinner single rounds. I wonder if there is a rope tying tech, a webbing set-up, some bomb-proof mesh bag, or ??? , with which to lower log rounds easily.

I get the sense that you are full on Sing., compared my now infrequent tree work jobs. All I know for sure is that I am going to expand my fee when this sort of work is involved. Thanks for your reply, Harlen.

You can get cargo slings rated for tons that would do the trick but time and $ would be a problem.

 

[northmanlogging]

zip line

 

[pdqdl]

With a back-haul line to control descent.

 

[Harlen]

zip line

Northmanlogging wrote: " Are you here for advice or bias confirmation?"
Now that I know that "confirmation bias" is:

The tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories. I can tell you that I was seeking advice. We had a very tense day lowering giant rounds, and called it quits when one actually did get loose, and only a lucky catch by another tree trunk kept it from smashing the client's wall, and me having to learn to patch stucco! The cargo sling recommended by singinwoodwa may be just what we need, and that is the sort of advice I was after. Sorry if I'm wasting your time.

One of many cargo sling/netting options I found:
https://www.usnetting.com/cargo-netting/cargo-nets/2-inch-webbing-cargo-nets/rings/

 

[pdqdl]

This would be helpful for all of us if you could post some wide angle photos from the top and bottom. This might give us better ideas about what the project involves.

 

[northmanlogging]

Northmanlogging wrote: " Are you here for advice or bias confirmation?"
Now that I know that "confirmation bias" is:

The tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories. I can tell you that I was seeking advice. We had a very tense day lowering giant rounds, and called it quits when one actually did get loose, and only a lucky catch by another tree trunk kept it from smashing the client's wall, and me having to learn to patch stucco! The cargo sling recommended by singinwoodwa may be just what we need, and that is the sort of advice I was after. Sorry if I'm wasting your time.

One of many cargo sling/netting options I found:
https://www.usnetting.com/cargo-netting/cargo-nets/2-inch-webbing-cargo-nets/rings/

yes, then you take that cargo sling attach it to a ZIP LINE that is anchored well away from the wall, and give it a good shove, big horkin round goes sliding down the line and lands at a predetermined spot, easy work.

edit: or just double wrap a sling around the chunk, rather then spending money on a cargo net, if your worried about the chunks coming loose, cut em double long and choke the middle. then send them down a zip line. if you don't have a sling a short length of rigging rope tied in a girth hitch or timber hitch works just as well.

Unless you already have a bias that you know everything, then you would fail to realize anything new, hence bias confirmation.

 

[pdqdl]

And... If you rig that zip line with a pulley arrangement with a high enough power factor (that's how many pulleys you use), you can pull on the line, lift the log off the ground, and then the downhill tension from the zipline will keep it in the air until you lower it slowly (Use a friction device!) to your stopping point.

If you work it out right, that is. Doing it all wrong might prove catastrophic, as a zip line might deliver the logs somewhere at a velocity you cannot control, with some spectacular destructive force.

Be sure to take a video of the first log you send down, as we do like to watch disaster videos as well as skillful log-lowering videos.

 

[pdqdl]

When all seems hopeless for hanging on to your logs with a rope, the stillson hitch is your friend. It will hold a very short, heavy log.



I think it is funny the guy is wearing his climbing belt as a badge certifying his expertise. C'mon guy! You are obviously inside the office.

 

[Harlen]

pdqdl wrote:

If you work it out right, that is. Doing it all wrong might prove catastrophic, as a zip line might deliver the logs somewhere at a velocity you cannot control, with some spectacular destructive force.

Salient point, and my greatest fear when exploring rigging techniques, that are often beyond my ken. We did finish the job using the double slings. Sorry no photos yet; I will figure out how to attach them the next time I need advice. Thanks to you all for the helpful advice to a new member.

I'll take a stab at adding photos:

Okay, it works the same as the mountaineering forum. That's my backpacking partner Bearzy by a weird Sierra juniper.

 

[pdqdl]

For the most part, you should be able to just copy a photo and paste it into position. I suppose it depends on the operating system that you are using.

I work with a Windows operating system computer, and it is quite easy. Additionally, there is the little picture icon/tool above the editing window when you are entering a post. Play with that a bit, and you will see that you can insert the link to a picture or uploaded one from your device.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

pdqdl wrote:


Salient point, and my greatest fear when exploring rigging techniques, that are often beyond my ken. We did finish the job using the double slings. Sorry no photos yet; I will figure out how to attach them the next time I need advice. Thanks to you all for the helpful advice to a new member.

I'll take a stab at adding photos:
View attachment 1077431
Okay, it works the same as the mountaineering forum. That's my backpacking partner Bearzy by a weird Sierra juniper.

Looks a lot like the one from the Rubicon trail at Little Sluice…it fell several years back.