Machinery you would not live without?

[softdown]

Sorry if wrong section - this one seemed as good as any.

I started a lot clearing and tree service business awhile ago. Bit old at age 62 but I used to do triathlons and can kind of afford to buy heavy equipment for most of the work. Mostly just studying and buying used equipment this year. Thoughts to date:
Major league tree service is very expensive if using machines for most everything. Lot clearing even more so if the lots are filled with trees.
It is dangerous. Already heard of fatalities from someone that somebody that I know - knew. Operating the heavy equipment is about as risky as chopping up trees and making them vanish.
Great exercise! Even with machines - working my rear off!

Back to the title - here is what I have or am actively negotiating on (lot clearing and tree service):
Multiple chain saws
55' bucket truck with chip bed
21,000 pound dedicated mulcher with 9' wide head
12,000 pound high flow skid steer with 5' disc mulcher
3500 truck with multiple modifications. Came within $1000 or of getting a F550 today. The 3500 is "weak" for big loads at 10,000' and mountain passes. It has a 5.9 Cummins that has been tuned as highly as trailering calls for.
20' dump trailer
36' flat bed equipment trailer
rough terrain fork lift
skid steer tree shears
skid steer tree chipper
72" skid steer grapple
CDL

Actively seeking stump grinder and dedicated log grapple and smaller equipment trailer. I would have to sell some assets to get much more. Am I missing items of grave importance?

What items would your tree service or lot clearing business be lost without?

 

[catbuster]

First thing first, and I think they get overlooked a lot is the 3/4 or one-ton pickup with some combination of toolbox and diesel transfer tank-I prefer a shallow gull-wing box and a 75 gallon L tank. Getting fuel and parts to the equipment is the most important part of this business. The F-250 has been the backbone of industry for years and will continue to be as such for the forseeable future. I couldn’t operate without one, but I could figure out the rest.

The next thing I could come close to not living without is a 60 or 80,000 lb class excavator-with a hydraulic thumb, reach boom and mid length stick. They’re small enough to move (or have moved) easily, but still have the reach and power to really get in and rapidly do some work. I prefer a wedge style quick coupler, but a direct pin on 48” bucket works well too, and pin grabbers can work fine but just aren’t as durable and increase tip radius which reduces breakout force at your bucket teeth. Moving logs, digging stumps, pioneering roads, loading trucks, and on and on and on. Smaller than a 290/329 just doesn’t have the ass behind it or the reach to do anything quickly and bigger than a 350/336 and it’s hard to move and not very nimble.

 

[softdown]

Interesting on the 3/4 ton truck. Yes - it will do most jobs alright. But I have already found my 3500 dually to be small in some regards:
10,000' altitude equals a 33% horsepower loss so the next engine should be 300 HP or better.
Need 4WD for the 4 low gearing on steep terrain with heavy loads.
Want bigger brakes.

So I was very actively studying 550/5500 class trucks. But today I almost breezed up the tough side of a Colorado pass to 9400' with an ~ 17,000 pound trailer load. The last (steepest) mile was at 38mph and 2400rpm. Trannie finally hit 190F, the engine hit 210F. Very acceptable numbers - the fall weather helped of course - it was about 50F. The modifications to the 5.9 Cummins and cooling systems paid off today. Had a much, much rougher time with an unaltered gasoline Dodge V10 (488) several years ago.

Current challenge: Tons of Bobcat skid steer attachments. I think they tend to be 7 pin while "the rest" use 14 pin. So I wonder about spending $550 for an adapter and hope it always works. Seems only 4 of the pins are actually "hot" (carrying electricity).

Yes I would like another diesel tank and a tool box. Tried it and had a real rough time with the gooseneck - I could not see it when backing to trailers. Thinking of a smaller tank and box mounted at an angle that allows viewing of the gooseneck ball.

 

[catbuster]

The bigger trucks use the same driveline as a 3/4 or one ton, so you’re not going to do any better there. You could try some taller rear gears in the truck you have, 4.30s, or better yet 4.88s pull a lot better than 3.55s when the going gets tough. Other than that, if it’s a mechanical engine, take the fuel plate and put it all the way forward, should help you out a fair bit in the power department. I would be careful with sending power to a Dodge automatic transmission, though, they had a habit of ******** the bed with stock Cummins diesels.

What I’ve done in the past with a gooseneck hitch is line up a piece of tape in line with the ball in the back window and line that up with the trailer neck. After a while it’s a lot easier. There are lower profile cube style tanks but then it eats up a lot more space that a fuel tank probably should.

The biggest reason most people use 3/4 tons over one-tons or bigger is because a 3/4 has a GVWR of 9900 pounds, which keeps employers under the requirement for a DOT physical.

7-14 pin connectors are pretty simple, I’d keep the adapter in the machine and use it as needed. You could, conversely, wire the Bobcat attachments to use the 14 pin connector. It’s not that hard to do and it can save you time. Of course, Bobcat’s attachments have never reall impressed me, so there’s that. Not everyone can afford to be so picky though.

 

[angelo c]

MM 200 welder...stuff breaks all the time

 

[softdown]

The bigger trucks use the same driveline as a 3/4 or one ton, so you’re not going to do any better there. You could try some taller rear gears in the truck you have, 4.30s, or better yet 4.88s pull a lot better than 3.55s when the going gets tough. Other than that, if it’s a mechanical engine, take the fuel plate and put it all the way forward, should help you out a fair bit in the power department. I would be careful with sending power to a Dodge automatic transmission, though, they had a habit of ******** the bed with stock Cummins diesels.

What I’ve done in the past with a gooseneck hitch is line up a piece of tape in line with the ball in the back window and line that up with the trailer neck. After a while it’s a lot easier. There are lower profile cube style tanks but then it eats up a lot more space that a fuel tank probably should.

The biggest reason most people use 3/4 tons over one-tons or bigger is because a 3/4 has a GVWR of 9900 pounds, which keeps employers under the requirement for a DOT physical.

7-14 pin connectors are pretty simple, I’d keep the adapter in the machine and use it as needed. You could, conversely, wire the Bobcat attachments to use the 14 pin connector. It’s not that hard to do and it can save you time. Of course, Bobcat’s attachments have never reall impressed me, so there’s that. Not everyone can afford to be so picky though.

Yes and no to the driveline I think. 550/5500 class trucks are made to tow heavier loads. So they tend to come with 4:88 gears instead of, for example, the 3:55s in my 3500. The larger brakes and stronger trannies are also a big plus.

My transmission guy talked me out of 4:56 gears saying that I really need 4WD for the Colorado altitude and grades. I'm going to try my 2002 4wd Dodge with the V10, 488 CID gas engine. Won't do the big passes well with a heavy load but fine for shorter trips. Plus it is paid for and has posi and lockers and mud tires. Just need to add a gooseneck hitch to the bed.

Know of an affordable Bobcat attachment to Cat skid steer adapter? Or are you recommending making one?

 

[sean donato]

First, your cummins is turbo charged, your not loosing the power you think you are at altitude. Naturally aspirated engines suffer greatly. Forced induction not nearly as bad.
Second, depending on how you order your truck depends on what equipment it has underneath it.
We ordered a new 2019 dodge 5500. (I wouldn't reccomend it, it's a dead turd) 6.7l cummins, optioned the heavy duty transmission (Asian automatic) and 4.55 gears. The axles were what they were. It didn't haul or tow any better then our 2004 f550, that used the same transmission and 6.0l power stroke that the smaller pickup did. It had 4.10 gears, and larger axles then the smaller pickups.
Your current truck would benefit with a lower gear set. We ended up doing this in my cousins f350. 4.10 made a world of difference when towing heavy.
I have added a link to an article by garret about altitude and turbo charged engines for your reading pleasure.
https://www.garrettmotion.com/news/...at-elevation-counteracting-lower-air-density/

 

[softdown]

Thks - did not know that about turbos and altitude. That explains why the 5.9 diesel did so much better than the 8.0 gas - at 9000'. Horsepower and torque at sea level are very roughly similar after the diesel upgrades.

The newer engines have a bad rep for performance and mpg. Ingsoc will frown on more information than that. On that note I may try to stick to pre DEF engines. The enhanced reliability being the factor. Very bad situation for breakdowns here in BFE.

Emissions are why so many skid steers are limited to 74 HP - that is the level before DEF etc. is required.

 

[sean donato]

Thks - did not know that about turbos and altitude. That explains why the 5.9 diesel did so much better than the 8.0 gas - at 9000'. Horsepower and torque at sea level are very roughly similar after the diesel upgrades.

The newer engines have a bad rep for performance and mpg. Ingsoc will frown on more information than that. On that note I may try to stick to pre DEF engines. The enhanced reliability being the factor. Very bad situation for breakdowns here in BFE.

Emissions are why so many skid steers are limited to 74 HP - that is the level before DEF etc. is required.

I'm a 12v nut, but would take a common rail. Dpf isn't as terrible as most make it out to be. Let the system do its job and it's pretty self sufficient. (For the most part)
75hp is one of the hp limits for emissions. So yes, you are correct for the reason skid steers are typically 74hp and lower then jump up to 80or so hp and larger.
Typically it's the high hour machines that have issues, around here a svl90 kubota with 6k hours is asking for issues, especially if it's a rental or contractor owned. Local contractor to me won't keep a skid past 5k hours just to avoid headaches with them and still get a decent trade price.

 

[softdown]

Outside of rentals and contractors, who puts over 5000 hours on a skid steer? I bought one with 4500 hours and am concerned about that of course. This year has proved impossible to buy the right heavy equipment without getting "bent over" and taking it.

 

[sean donato]

Depends on what your doing, I'd consider a higher hour machine for around the house, but I'm not in the land clearing business either.

 

[softdown]

On the bright side it appears and sounds to be in excellent shape with newish tracks. One hydraulic cylinder leaks and needs rebuilt. I know a guy who has offered to show me how to do it. Seems a useful skill. Otherwise the cylinder is $500.

Now I am thinking a power rake could be quite useful. A lot of trees get removed in preparation for a gravel driveway.

 

[angelo c]

On the bright side it appears and sounds to be in excellent shape with newish tracks. One hydraulic cylinder leaks and needs rebuilt. I know a guy who has offered to show me how to do it. Seems a useful skill. Otherwise the cylinder is $500.

Now I am thinking a power rake could be quite useful. A lot of trees get removed in preparation for a gravel driveway.

The repair is $500... I'm thinking replacing the cyl will be a big bit more then $500....just saying

 

[softdown]

The repair is $500... I'm thinking replacing the cyl will be a big bit more then $500....just saying

Got to be. Was told that replacing a cylinder twice the size was $6000. I find that incredible.

 

[catbuster]

Got to be. Was told that replacing a cylinder twice the size was $6000. I find that incredible.

You gotta pay to play, dude. Even when you’re getting screwed. It’s hard to take, I get it, but nobody is in this for charity.

 

[softdown]

You gotta pay to play, dude. Even when you’re getting screwed. It’s hard to take, I get it, but nobody is in this for charity.

You like that quote. I imagine the cash flow of road building differs from lumber jacking. In fact I've heard contractors say this "If you are building roads who cares what the repair cost."

Spent ample time on Hwy 50 in the Colorado mountains. I think they built it for a few million in a few months - now spending hundreds of millions and years for repairs. You just have to love hearing that!

I showed up a minute after 7:30pm and was told I'd have to wait until 6:30am to pass. Then a bright shiny 2500 showed up behind me and they drove us through.

 

[Pepster]

#1 Wire wheel brush on my vintage bench grinder.
Old Craftsman Block grinder.
I bought it at a garage sale & the guy was happy to plug it in for me.
Had it cradled in his arms, flipped the switch & said "Well it USED TO WORK"!
I told him, it is working now!
It's so smooth, he never knew it was turning! Lol!
Gave $20 for it.

 

[Pepster]

^^^^^ Industrial model, made in the 60's & will prolly live on forever!

 

[Pepster]

I couldn't live without my metal cutting band saw (Mic Drop).

 

[catbuster]

You like that quote. I imagine the cash flow of road building differs from lumber jacking. In fact I've heard contractors say this "If you are building roads who cares what the repair cost."

I got my start on farms, where we weren’t cash fluid, either. We ran a lot of older equipment because it was what we could afford, even if we had to work on it, seemingly endlessly. Same deal applies whatever business you’re in once you start working with any sort of heavy equipment. I’ve spent plenty of time tipping trees as my means of income, too. Regardless, the same rule applies once any equipment starts being injected into the equation. The stuff is expensive to keep going, be it a skid steer loader, or a 1250 Komatsu.

Your ROI is what it is, it needs to be more than equal to make stuff work. You have to pay to play regardless of what you’re getting into, it’s the nature of the business. You’re right-I have had some repairs where I didn’t give a damn about what it cost, it just needed to be fixed ASAP. Those jobs are the reason why my hairline continues to recede around a widow’s peak.

So, I guess, I do like that phrase. I like it because there’s a lot of truth behind it.