McCulloch Saws

[Meteshjj]

Since I was a little kid, my dad has been cutting wood with his McCulloch Super Pro 81e. I've used the saw myself many times, but I don't have a fireplace, so I didn't have a good reason to own a saw of my own.

That's all changing. I'm moving to a place with a wood stove, so I figured I should buy a saw. To that end, I bought a McCulloch Super 250 in unknown condition on eBay for $100. Lucky me, the saw runs, kinda. I have some carb and tank cleaning to do, and maybe some nice yellow paint.

In the meantime, though, I wanted to get some opinions from folks here who run these saws. Am I looking at the same kind of experience with the 250 as I had with the 81e? Also, the 81e runs a 32" sprocket nose bar without hesitating. Can I get away with that on the 250?

 

[Woodslasher]

Calling @heimannm , @sawfun , @PogoInTheWoods @RandyMac
I haven't gotten my Super 250 running as a new piston's still in the mail, but these guys should be able to help you.

 

[heimannm]

The 10 Series saws like the 82 cc Super Pro 81 are much much smaller, lighter, and more nimble than the Super 250. The Super 250 is 87 cc so it is bigger displacement than the SP81 but you really need to have big wood and a long bar to take advantage of it. If you are really need a saw to cut wood and don't have $400 to $600 to spend you might be better off looking for a 57 cc (PM55), 60 cc (PM60) or 70 cc model (4-10, 5-10, 6-10, 7-10, SP-70, CP 70, PM700) that would be affordable and make a good firewood saw.

Mark

 

[mogulmasher]

I agree with Mark, the experience running the 80cc and 87cc large Macs isn't quite the same as a 10 series Mac. That's not to say it isn't enjoyable, just different. I've had a handful of large frame Macs, including my current 87cc Mac 380. I usually fix them up, play with them for a little while and send them off to a fellow Mac enthusiast.

I love my sp81.... probably my overall favorite saw, however my 10-10s is a tough saw to beat in the wood pile.

 

[2broke2ride]

Yup, the big saws are just different. It's like comparing a screaming 327 small block to a 502 big block. They both make wicked power, just different. That super 250 will pull a 32 inch bar easily but it wont be fast, screaming, high rpm.
This is my 380 (same cc) with a 32 inch bar bucking maple.

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[Meteshjj]

Yup, the big saws are just different. It's like comparing a screaming 327 small block to a 502 big block. They both make wicked power, just different.

Is the 6cc really that big of a difference? I don't doubt you (that's why I am asking the experts), but on paper, they don't look like they're radically different saws. I've had a 408 small block and a 400 big block, and the difference in power band wasn't that much. It could be in the porting, carb, and engine design, though. I'm not too clear on chainsaw engine designs...

That super 250 will pull a 32 inch bar easily but it wont be fast, screaming, high rpm.
This is my 380 (same cc) with a 32 inch bar bucking maple.

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I won't be cutting a lot of hardwood, but 12-16" lodgepole and Douglas fir is pretty common. The SP81e eats it's way through those pretty easy, so that's all I'm looking for.

The 10 Series saws like the 82 cc Super Pro 81 are much much smaller, lighter, and more nimble than the Super 250. The Super 250 is 87 cc so it is bigger displacement than the SP81 but you really need to have big wood and a long bar to take advantage of it. If you are really need a saw to cut wood and don't have $400 to $600 to spend you might be better off looking for a 57 cc (PM55), 60 cc (PM60) or 70 cc model (4-10, 5-10, 6-10, 7-10, SP-70, CP 70, PM700) that would be affordable and make a good firewood saw.

Mark

I actually already have the 250 Super on the bench, so that ship sailed for me... But It's not like I'm morally opposed to selling it again, either. On the weight, it looks like the SP81e is only 1/2 lb. lighter than the 250 Super (on paper). I don't have them both here, so I can't compare them directly, but is the difference that much? The only saw I've had to compare to the SP81e was a Stihl MS290, and that thing couldn't cut a wet paper bag, which is why I was looking into a bigger saw. Originally, I was looking for a SP125, but the prices I can find for those are absurd for what I need.

I agree with Mark, the experience running the 80cc and 87cc large Macs isn't quite the same as a 10 series Mac. That's not to say it isn't enjoyable, just different. I've had a handful of large frame Macs, including my current 87cc Mac 380. I usually fix them up, play with them for a little while and send them off to a fellow Mac enthusiast.

I love my sp81.... probably my overall favorite saw, however my 10-10s is a tough saw to beat in the wood pile.View attachment 850228

So, would I be better off selling this saw and getting a smaller one? The only two saws I've really spent any time running were the SP81e and a Stihl MS290, and the Stihl was an absolute dog. I could cut 12" pine faster with the McCulloch than I could cut 4" Aspen with the Stihl...

A few other questions for the experts:

The saw I bought has a flatback MAC-1 with 12/71 stamped in it. Where can I get a full carb kit for this guy? I see a lot of different kit numbers and a lot of different flatback carbs when I look online. Mine also seems to be missing the fuel collector. How important is that?

This saw also came with no bar. Is there a 30-36" roller nose bar out there that fits these, or maybe one that would fit with a little bit of drilling?[/QUOTE]

 

[rupedoggy]

Quick story. My friend had always cut wood with his Dads old Mcculloch. Years later he finally bought a reconditioned 046 I had. He told his wife he was going out to the woods to cut firewood with the new saw. A short time later she saw him and said "I thought you were going out to cut wood".
"I did" was his reply. He told me he had no idea how good the modern high speed saws were.

 

[mogulmasher]

Engines may be similar size, but quite different in design. The large frame Macs use a reed valve motor while the 10 series are piston ported with a port design that doesn't differ too greatly from saws today.

Weight may be similar on paper but a 10 series Mac just handles so much better it feels way lighter even if it's not by much.

Lots of bars still around for the old large frame Macs. Roller nose bars are a little tougher to come by though. I found my 380 with a nice roller nose already on it.

 

[svk]

Is the 6cc really that big of a difference? I don't doubt you (that's why I am asking the experts), but on paper, they don't look like they're radically different saws. I've had a 408 small block and a 400 big block, and the difference in power band wasn't that much. It could be in the porting, carb, and engine design, though. I'm not too clear on chainsaw engine designs...


I won't be cutting a lot of hardwood, but 12-16" lodgepole and Douglas fir is pretty common. The SP81e eats it's way through those pretty easy, so that's all I'm looking for.



I actually already have the 250 Super on the bench, so that ship sailed for me... But It's not like I'm morally opposed to selling it again, either. On the weight, it looks like the SP81e is only 1/2 lb. lighter than the 250 Super (on paper). I don't have them both here, so I can't compare them directly, but is the difference that much? The only saw I've had to compare to the SP81e was a Stihl MS290, and that thing couldn't cut a wet paper bag, which is why I was looking into a bigger saw. Originally, I was looking for a SP125, but the prices I can find for those are absurd for what I need.



So, would I be better off selling this saw and getting a smaller one? The only two saws I've really spent any time running were the SP81e and a Stihl MS290, and the Stihl was an absolute dog. I could cut 12" pine faster with the McCulloch than I could cut 4" Aspen with the Stihl...

A few other questions for the experts:

The saw I bought has a flatback MAC-1 with 12/71 stamped in it. Where can I get a full carb kit for this guy? I see a lot of different kit numbers and a lot of different flatback carbs when I look online. Mine also seems to be missing the fuel collector. How important is that?

This saw also came with no bar. Is there a 30-36" roller nose bar out there that fits these, or maybe one that would fit with a little bit of drilling?

Good morning. Kits for flatback carbs are expensive but they do exist.

Bars are available and there are also other bar patterns that can work. I’d have to check and see what pattern that takes before commenting further.

Rather than comparing small block to big block I’d rather compare the saws to similar trucks with different gear ratios. A 250 is a low revving saw with lots of torque in big wood versus the 81 is going to have higher chain speed so it will be better for limbing and general cutting.

 

[Meteshjj]

Good morning. Kits for flatback carbs are expensive but they do exist.

Bars are available and there are also other bar patterns that can work. I’d have to check and see what pattern that takes before commenting further.

Rather than comparing small block to big block I’d rather compare the saws to similar trucks with different gear ratios. A 250 is a low revving saw with lots of torque in big wood versus the 81 is going to have higher chain speed so it will be better for limbing and general cutting.

Okay, gearing makes more sense. The 250 has high torque, the SP81e has high horsepower (relatively speaking). How much improvement would I see going with a smaller sprocket? Are there 7T sprockets that would fit?

Don't get me wrong; I have a long way to go before I'm ready to start experimenting with that sort of thing (I should probably get it running first), but I like knowing what kind of options I have. Speaking of which, what is the governed or max RPM of both saws? Knowing some meaningful specs might help me wrap my head around it a little better.

 

[svk]

Do you mean going up to an 8T sprocket on the 250?

Acres site shows WOT for a Super 250 to be 6000 RPM. Not sure if this is accurate but he does usually have pretty good info. Doesn’t show WOT for SP81 but I’m pretty sure the 10 series saws are going to be several thousand higher. They were pretty high revving saws for their time.

Also is your 250 set up for 3/8 or .404 chain?

 

[2broke2ride]

Here is my 440 with an 8 pin 3/8 setup on a 32 inch bar bucking 24 inch red oak. Same basic motor as the super 250.
I honestly feel for what you say you will be cutting, you'd be better of with a 10-10 or 7-10.


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[Meteshjj]

Do you mean going up to an 8T sprocket on the 250?

Acres site shows WOT for a Super 250 to be 6000 RPM. Not sure if this is accurate but he does usually have pretty good info. Doesn’t show WOT for SP81 but I’m pretty sure the 10 series saws are going to be several thousand higher. They were pretty high revving saws for their time.

Also is your 250 set up for 3/8 or .404 chain?

I did mean 8T, yes. It's been a long morning already. The 6000 RPM, I can work with though. I think it has the .404 setup right now, but I wouldn't be against a 3/8 chain, especially if it makes parts easier to find.

Here is my 440 with an 8 pin 3/8 setup on a 32 inch bar bucking 24 inch red oak. Same basic motor as the super 250.
I honestly feel for what you say you will be cutting, you'd be better of with a 10-10 or 7-10.


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I usually end up cutting the smaller stuff, but I do occasionally run into bigger 20"+ trees, which is why I'm looking for a little over kill. I'm happy for the advice, and who knows? I might end up selling the saw when all is said and done. I already have the saw, so all I can waste now is time and a little money.

 

[svk]

I’m not totally sure on the availability of a 3/8 drum (or rim sprocket drum) for that model but surely some of these guys would know.

If it was me (as a recreational wood cutter) I’d swap it to 3/8 so I’d only need to keep track of one pitch of chain. But ultimately your bar choice may dictate what chain you’ll want/need.

I acquired a 7-19 Homelite over the winter and amazingly it was set up for 3/8 .058 although a different DL count that what I run. Was able to pick up a nice archer chain for about 14 bucks.

 

[2broke2ride]

This one has a 3/8 7 pin sprocket but once you have the drum you can put anything g you want on there.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/381981236667
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[sawfun]

Do you mean going up to an 8T sprocket on the 250?

Acres site shows WOT for a Super 250 to be 6000 RPM. Not sure if this is accurate but he does usually have pretty good info. Doesn’t show WOT for SP81 but I’m pretty sure the 10 series saws are going to be several thousand higher. They were pretty high revving saws for their time.

Also is your 250 set up for 3/8 or .404 chain?

I can tell you that the super 250 & 660 Mac's I had both went much better than 6k rpm, however only under a big load with 36" bar buried. The 550 & super 550 I had may have been at 6k, however the super 250 when under a big load, has what has been described as the reeds fully opening up, absolutely screams like it got a shot of nitrous. When this happens I'm gonna say the power seems to almost double. The 660's I've had did the same as they are a super 250 in geardrive form. These are considered factory hotrods for a reason, but you ain't likely to find that out with a 20 or 25 inch bar cuttin twigs.

 

[Meteshjj]

This one has a 3/8 7 pin sprocket but once you have the drum you can put anything g you want on there.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/381981236667
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That lead was great. It turns out, Lil' Red Barn sells these sprockets in a variety of flavors. Now, I just need to find a bar that will fit and a carb kit for a flatback. That shouldn't be too hard. As a side note, has anyone converted one of these points saws to a CDI with the kit Lil' Red Barn sells? I've converted a few 2-strokes and 4-strokes with Chevy parts, but you usually need a battery for that route.

 

[svk]

That lead was great. It turns out, Lil' Red Barn sells these sprockets in a variety of flavors. Now, I just need to find a bar that will fit and a carb kit for a flatback. That shouldn't be too hard. As a side note, has anyone converted one of these points saws to a CDI with the kit Lil' Red Barn sells? I've converted a few 2-strokes and 4-strokes with Chevy parts, but you usually need a battery for that route.

Saw conversions are sometimes not as straightforward as automotive. Some saws run great and others the timing is off so they don’t run as well. If the saw is not an everyday user I’d keep the points.

 

[Meteshjj]

Saw conversions are sometimes not as straightforward as automotive. Some saws run great and others the timing is off so they don’t run as well. If the saw is not an everyday user I’d keep the points.

That's probably a better idea. Most of the things I've converted have been dirt bikes, golf carts, etc. They usually have some sort of lighting coil or battery start to work with, but I don't really have a need to get rid of the points right now.

So, after doing some more reading, I noticed that most of the flatback carb kits I can find specifically mention the MAC-9 kit. My carb says MAC-1 on it. I also noticed that most flatbacks are a primer instead of a choke. Is the basic rebuild kit going to be different, or can I just use anything for a flatback McCulloch carb?

 

[heimannm]

The diaphragms are different in the specific kart carburetors but the diaphragms are all the same for the saws.

Mark