More adventures in lo pro milling

[Lightning Performance]

72" 3/8 LP?


Curious because the .325 is easy to find. And I already have sprockets for it.

I may order some LP stuff for this job, it's taking forever to find time to do it. Most of the logs aren't that big, 32" bar will take care of them.

I thought of doing that with the circular saw. I hate the cut this bigger stuff up though. Hopefully I can keep most of it as slabs. Some of the grain is really beautiful.
I have the Sawsquatch too. It's a beast! I love wormdrive saws.
I picked up a Festool HK 85 (had to come from Europe because they don't sell them here) so I can cut staright smooth cuts on the thicker stuff. Of course the "like new only cut once to test" saw had a bad bearing that damaged the commutator. So it has to go back.

I saw the Archer but I was hesitant on the quality. The WP I have has worked well so far and is half the price of the Oregon ripping chain. Which is a lot when you're talking about spools.

What WP chain are you using?
It's made by Carlton.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Double reeds could pay big divotends milling. I'm considering them on my one saw for more grunt. It does one thing only buck with a bow. It could use more grunt for sure. Porting the cylinder will help. I do believe going with a bigger carb on that is a plus once ported and better reeds added. The compression is starting to go away after a decade of use so it's time to get in there to smoothing out and update the old wear items and toss some machine work at it for more compression.

Your 045 could use a timing advance I'm sure so getting a better air filter on it will make a big difference. Anything you can do to increase airflow will help. Porting a carb is one of the most overlooked performance gains on many tools or a simple swap to something slightly bigger.

Was out bucking locust yesterday with my 660 milling saw with a ride foot clamped on the bar. 28" 404 RS was the happiness chain yesterday. Was pleasantly surprised to see one of my ported saws at the jobsite running a long bar in locust on 59cc ported power head. It did very well and in fact almost out cut a 72cc modified saw. This was built as low compression easy to start saw and it is. The thing really does go with a 28 bar on it. The 72cc was running a 30". If I had a choice it would definitely be the 59cc milling or bucking vs the bigger saw. Nothing over a 100cc was run so the other milling saws were left home this trip. Next time there I hope to test a 166dl 404 custom loop in a 4ft burl maple log. Plenty of cherry just came in there and some fat chunks of gum to do something with or use as log bunks to get stuff up off the ground. A few five foot wide logs to be milled this spring mostly old hardwoods up there at that lot.

Have you tried any square filed LP?

Have not tried squared filed LP yet - have barely scratched the surface of lo pro chain yet compared to my messing w other chain - and even then I've hardly tried any square filed in other chains. I built a whole big air intake w foam filter copied off another guy's 056 Super's intake for milling but haven't remounted it yet since I got the first saw working right. Didn't want to put it back on til I was sure the thing wasn't spitting gas anymore. Might see if the carb can be swapped for something bigger later on but want to make sure I've got tuning dialed on the existing one I have first.

I got schooled by an old chainsaw maestro when I was milling trees in southern Mexico years ago when we were Alaskan milling with my 87cc Stihl and he was freehand milling with a Husky 365. I barely knew what I was doing then, couldn't sharpen worth a damn, and we were plodding slowly through 30" guanacaste (similar to monkeypod). He was accurately freehand milling at about 3x our speed lol because he kept his chains razor sharp and had been wielding a saw forever.

Tree service guy I work with sometimes salvaging his logs ports all his saws - didn't necessarily strike me as the best choice in urban tree work because the things are just that much more annoying to neighbors than saws already are. But definitely for bucking I'd prefer a 55-65cc ported saw over something heavier. Still have to get around to upgrading my Makita 64cc to 79cc with a piston and cylinder swap. Seems one of the best power to weight ratio saws going when you make that upgrade.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Have not tried squared filed LP yet - have barely scratched the surface of lo pro chain yet compared to my messing w other chain - and even then I've hardly tried any square filed in other chains. I built a whole big air intake w foam filter copied off another guy's 056 Super's intake for milling but haven't remounted it yet since I got the first saw working right. Didn't want to put it back on til I was sure the thing wasn't spitting gas anymore. Might see if the carb can be swapped for something bigger later on but want to make sure I've got tuning dialed on the existing one I have first.

I got schooled by an old chainsaw maestro when I was milling trees in southern Mexico years ago when we were Alaskan milling with my 87cc Stihl and he was freehand milling with a Husky 365. I barely knew what I was doing then, couldn't sharpen worth a damn, and we were plodding slowly through 30" guanacaste (similar to monkeypod). He was accurately freehand milling at about 3x our speed lol because he kept his chains razor sharp and had been wielding a saw forever.

Tree service guy I work with sometimes salvaging his logs ports all his saws - didn't necessarily strike me as the best choice in urban tree work because the things are just that much more annoying to neighbors than saws already are. But definitely for bucking I'd prefer a 55-65cc ported saw over something heavier. Still have to get around to upgrading my Makita 64cc to 79cc with a piston and cylinder swap. Seems one of the best power to weight ratio saws going when you make that upgrade.

I used my 6401 some with a lw 24 but never for milling. The 8400 kit was ok but I haven't messed with it much. That saw has 28 on it.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I used my 6401 some with a lw 24 but never for milling. The 8400 kit was ok but I haven't messed with it much. That saw has 28 on it.

everything I've heard about the 8400 kit is "okay" but people sing the praises of the OEM 79cc kit - doesn't seem like the extra bore of the 8400 is really worth it for kind of average performance. And as I already have a pair of grunt-y 87cc saws, a reasonably light 79cc would be a pretty nice all around bucking saw to have. Have 20" lo pro on the 6421 right now on an open ended small mill but not sure what I think of the small mill, seems something mostly suited to 12" or less dimensional softwood, bar doesn't always cut straight in 12-16" mesquite

 

[Up A Creek]

The shipping price from Fr Jones and Sons defeated the savings on their 63PMX. Want about $100 for shipping five 36" chains, which puts it from just under $50 a chain to just under $70 a chain, and you can make them from rolls bought here cheaper than that. I've realized from trying to point someone on another forum to Stihl big bars at a good price that the trick with all things Stihl is having a dealer who is both knowledgeable, can get product easily, and not greedy. I saw a Stihl dealer in upstate NY with 41" bars in stock for $129, and a guy downstate told me his local dealer said it took six months to get them and they'd be $210. Baileys and all online Stihl sellers are resellers, not authorized Stihl dealers, so their prices are quite often higher than they could be. I imagine wholesale on a 100' roll of 63PMX is no more than $350. Just a matter of finding a dealer who won't mark it up too much. Since they can't sell online, few dealers maintain websites detailing their stock, and probably 1 in 1000 Stihl dealers these days is forestry knowledgeable, so that search is a needle in a haystack thing. If you don't live in a traditional logging area, Stihl dealers aren't much use. They've become way too big a company selling way too many products for such a tiny niche as milling to matter to them at all.

Yeah, I called the Stihl dealer near me and they wanted $699 for 100'. I mentioned I could find it cheaper from a non dealer than that and they did say they would do $610 for 100' if it was 4 or more rolls. Still a bit more than I'm interested in paying, but if you want it that bad let me know.
They're also the guys I bought my Husky 435 from (in a pinch and needed a little saw quick) and could never get it to run right and then wouldn't take it back even if I bought another saw. When I went to Lowes (went there first at the same time) and got one that didn't run right Lowes took it back.
So much for going to a dealer for better service.
When I get time that's going to be my first saw to mess with porting.

Have you tried any square filed LP?

Would the octagonal file fit in there?
I've used a smaller round file on 3/8 chain to clear out some of the underside but I haven't gotten around to ordering a file to fully square file yet. So many damn things to order. Parts. Chain. Bars. Gas. Gas. Gas. Oil. lol

What WP chain are you using?
It's made by Carlton.

33RP It's the .063 gauge ripping chain. So far in my limited experience I haven't needed .404. 32, 36, 42 and 52 inch bars.
I think I'm going to order some 3/8 LP as well from Baileys. I really want to try the Stihl but I really can't justify $650 for a roll.
Same reason I went with the WP for my other chain instead of the Oregon 3/8 ripping.

 

[thenne1713]

Just got my WP 33rp roll yesterday from Baileys.
Looks good. Just like the stuff I already have.
Speaking of Baileys, they actually have a 32? Inch 3/8 lp bar. Special order though.
I didn't look for sprockets.

I've been digging and thinking and 32 seems like the shortest bar I would need for milling?
You lose something like 10 inches to the mill (unless you're using something open ended), and I personally don't forsee milling much of anything under 24" or so?

I am curious how the 3/8 lp goes, but wondering if it's worth a different bar/sprocket/ chain for just one bar.....

The 30rp (and suspect 33rp?) has a 1/4" kerf, same as LP. Unless you have tractor/ machine to handle logs/ slabs, do not plan on much over 12, because 16-20 gets real challenging weight wise. I have a manual log arch good for about 16, anything else, I learned to pass up, and loss in 4"-6" range, so 24 bar is secondary and 20 is goto.

 

[Up A Creek]

The 33rp is 3/8 .063 gauge ripping chain. I don't know exactly what the kerf is but it's definitely more than quarter inch.

The 30 and 38 rp are also 3/8. One is .050 (30?) And one is .058 gauge.
Both should have the same kerf as the 33rp.

The 3/8 LP ripping chain is a different number. Don't remember it off the top of my head.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

The 33rp is 3/8 .063 gauge ripping chain. I don't know exactly what the car is but it's definitely more than quarter inch.

The 30 and 38 rp are also 3/8. One is .050 (30?) And one is .058 gauge.
Both should have the same curve as the 33rp.

The 3/8 LP ripping chain is a different number. Don't remember it off the top of my head.

63rp is the 3/8 lo pro ripping from Woodland Pro. My bad experience was just the result of them making me up a loop, I am relative certain new rolls of chain could never look anything like the loop they sent me, which as I said, appeared to be badly reground crosscut chain rather than original 63rp

 

[Flavien Simon]

880 are dogs stock and they all need work is a true statement. I avoided them for just that reason. Once done they have the potential to be the strongest long bar saw for milling or otherwise with the largest case volume. Stroked to 45mm you won't find a stronger saw on gas. The big problem with them is the intake and carb are way small stock. Port timing numbers on the transfers are poor and not enough intake flow. Machine work is what they need first. Then swap to an 084 carb and intake. Two intakes were offered and several carbs are available OE and AM ht type. If your not putting on the best muffler mod everything else is a waste of time. These need to breathe just as much as all the rest do with restricted exhaust systems.

What do you think about the 088 carb ? I think the one I have is the ht12e type. Does it have the same limitations as the 880 carb ? I finished porting my 088 and grinded the intake port a lot, but it is a concern if my saw is still limited by its carburetor...

 

[Up A Creek]

Yeah, I called the Stihl dealer near me and they wanted $699 for 100'. I mentioned I could find it cheaper from a non dealer than that and they did say they would do $610 for 100' if it was 4 or more rolls. Still a bit more than I'm interested in paying, but if you want it that bad let me know.

So, I hadn't realized a 100' roll of Woodland pro 63rp (equivalent to the Stihl 63 pmx) is $500. So the Stihl is only $150 more. Only $110 more if I got 4 rolls locally. Still more than I want to pay, but not as large of a jump as I thought. Not that I will ever use a full 100' roll of it in my lifetime.

Maybe I need to get a loop of each first and compare how it does and how it sharpens. Might try the Oregon ripping chain while I'm at it too. Plenty of logs in the pile I'm working on, if I can ever get time to finish it.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

So, I hadn't realized a 100' roll of Woodland pro 63rp (equivalent to the Stihl 63 pmx) is $500. So the Stihl is only $150 more. Only $110 more if I got 4 rolls locally. Still more than I want to pay, but not as large of a jump as I thought. Not that I will ever use a full 100' roll of it in my lifetime.

Maybe I need to get a loop of each first and compare how it does and how it sharpens. Might try the Oregon ripping chain while I'm at it too. Plenty of logs in the pile I'm working on, if I can ever get time to finish it.

Oregon 91R is just for small saws, according to the Chainsawbars site. I imagine Woodland Pro was designed as a copy of it and is no stronger. Stihl specifically made PMX to run on up to 36" bars, and other lo pro chains were only designed for small saws so aren't nearly as strong. I imagine Panther chain that Chainsawbars manufactures is probably decent strength as he's making it specifically for milling with all the larger GB lo pro bars and gear he sells. But he doesn't attempt to compare it to the Stihl and readily recognizes 63PMX as the gold standard. In combing the world for deals, the place FR Jones and Son in the UK that had shipping too expensive to bother with loops, I found has 100' rolls on sale for only 345 pounds, or about $430. But min $100 shipping, gets to $530 at least, and Baileys is $650 plus $10 shipping, so are the savings really worth ordering overseas for....

 

[Lightning Performance]

Yeah, I called the Stihl dealer near me and they wanted $699 for 100'. I mentioned I could find it cheaper from a non dealer than that and they did say they would do $610 for 100' if it was 4 or more rolls. Still a bit more than I'm interested in paying, but if you want it that bad let me know.
They're also the guys I bought my Husky 435 from (in a pinch and needed a little saw quick) and could never get it to run right and then wouldn't take it back even if I bought another saw. When I went to Lowes (went there first at the same time) and got one that didn't run right Lowes took it back.
So much for going to a dealer for better service.
When I get time that's going to be my first saw to mess with porting.


Would the octagonal file fit in there?
I've used a smaller round file on 3/8 chain to clear out some of the underside but I haven't gotten around to ordering a file to fully square file yet. So many damn things to order. Parts. Chain. Bars. Gas. Gas. Gas. Oil. lol

33RP It's the .063 gauge ripping chain. So far in my limited experience I haven't needed .404. 32, 36, 42 and 52 inch bars.
I think I'm going to order some 3/8 LP as well from Baileys. I really want to try the Stihl but I really can't justify $650 for a roll.
Same reason I went with the WP for my other chain instead of the Oregon 3/8 ripping.

Can you post or reference a list of the latest cutters?

 

[Lightning Performance]

What do you think about the 088 carb ? I think the one I have is the ht12e type. Does it have the same limitations as the 880 carb ? I finished porting my 088 and grinded the intake port a lot, but it is a concern if my saw is still limited by its carburetor...

Not sure what you have without pics.
Random grinding rarely turns out well.

What are your timing numbers?

 

[thenne1713]

The 33rp is 3/8 .063 gauge ripping chain. I don't know exactly what the kerf is but it's definitely more than quarter inch.

The 30 and 38 rp are also 3/8. One is .050 (30?) And one is .058 gauge.
Both should have the same kerf as the 33rp.

The 3/8 LP ripping chain is a different number. Don't remember it off the top of my head.

YES, the 30RP IS 3/8X050, been using more than 10yrs, and measured kerf many times at 1/4"... which is what was always a bragging point for the sawyers using the STIHL 63PMX ... have always been happy w/ the 30RP.

 

[Up A Creek]

Can you post or reference a list of the latest cutters?

Not sure what you're referencing?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

When setup properly the Logosol mills make true boards/beams with a finish better than bandsaw mills if you use 63PMX chain.

Another nice thing is you can mill a bunch of flitches, then place a bunch on the mill on edge , to edge.

The mill is limited a bit by weight of log. Because of this I never really need a >25" bar. Bigger dia logs get a 1st slab off the top, turned 180, another slab, then turned 90 and another slab. At this point turned 180 and final outer slab to give a square cant that is <25". Then it's off to the races ripping boards......

I took a closer look at the Logosol F2+ and am impressed. I didn't realize it could handle logs as big as it can, guess I was looking at the M7/M8/F2 before (which would be fine for most of what I wanted to do, but bigger/stronger, why not?). I was putting my engineering design brain to work trying to think if I could make a better way of chainsaw milling I could market based around lo pro, and came back to the fact that it's hard to beat Logosol's setup. I initially thought it kinda pricey - people always say "plus the saw, you could have a bandsaw mill for the price" but honestly a really solid bandsaw like a Woodmizer is upwards of $10k. Plus I already have a lot of milling saws and lo pro setups, and have my doubts about lesser bandsaw mills in extreme hardwoods like mesquite (blade drift, etc). Seems like a no brainer. Turns out one of the three dealers in the US is just up the road from me in Canyon Lake, so that's convenient.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Not sure what you're referencing?

The cutter

 

[Flavien Simon]

Not sure what you have without pics.
Random grinding rarely turns out well.

What are your timing numbers?

Here it is.

As the first thing I did before grinding was checking the price of a replacement OEM cylinder, I can assure you I did some research

It was not easy to commit on some numbers, but I ended on 99,5 / 120,5 / 77 including a base gasket removal.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Here it is.

As the first thing I did before grinding was checking the price of a replacement OEM cylinder, I can assure you I did some research

It was not easy to commit on some numbers, but I ended on 99,5 / 120,5 / 77 including a base gasket removal.

Where was it when you started?
What were crossection areas?
Were you shooting for a specific blowdown number?

 

[Flavien Simon]

Where was it when you started?
What were crossection areas?
Were you shooting for a specific blowdown number?

Initial numbers vwere 99.5/119/65. I was not shooting for a specific blowdown number and I don't have an angle grinder so I could not do much work on the upper transfers.
I posted more details about my build in this thread :
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/stihl-088-woods-porting.364845/#post-7932268