MS 216 C-M: Clutch shoe broke....and needle cage, washer, & E-clip gone. Why? How?

[rustyb]

I had about 1/4" more to cut in the back cut when my saw stopped. Geeze!!! I pull it out, start it, and heard something inside hit the saw then saw something fly out. Then the saw quit.

I took the cover off and found that the E-clip that holds the sprocket on was gone....as well as the washer under it and the needle cage. I then pulled the clutch drum off and saw that the clutch shoe was broken (see pic).

What the heck happened to cause all this? Is this common?

For what it's worth, I have run ~7 gallons of gas through this saw.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

I just worked on a 261c while back…same issue. Still shop where I ordered a new clutch said he’d never seen a clutch do that…this one had 2 broken shoes…
destroyed the cage and did enough damage to the drum that it had to be replaced as well. Oil pump was really beat up but not enough to need replacement.
tree service saw…
I wonder is stihl had a bad batch of shoes that went out.

 

[rustyb]

I just worked on a 261c while back…same issue. Still shop where I ordered a new clutch said he’d never seen a clutch do that…this one had 2 broken shoes…
destroyed the cage and did enough damage to the drum that it had to be replaced as well.
tree service saw…
I wonder is stihl had a bad batch of shoes that went out.

Roughly 10 minutes before this happened, I noticed my chain got super loose....looser than I had seen. Thought that was weird. Then, after I tightened it, I thought there was some extra noise and friction....but, chalked it up to my imagination and continued sawing. Guess it wasn't my imagination after all. Hope nothing else is screwed up!

Do I have to replace all three shoes? Either way, do I need a special tool to get this shoe assembly off?

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Roughly 10 minutes before this happened, I noticed my chain got super loose....looser than I had seen. Thought that was weird. Then, after I tightened it, I thought there was some extra noise and friction....but, chalked it up to my imagination and continued sawing. Guess it wasn't my imagination after all. Hope nothing else is screwed up!

Do I have to replace all three shoes? Either way, do I need a special tool to get this shoe assembly off?

I just ordered the whole clutch kit including the drum and rim sprocket. All were toast. Near $100

 

[4CornersPuddle]

I've had E clips come off the crank on a MS390 twice. Both times the chain loosened, the caged bearing was destroyed, and there was plenty of noise. In my case, I shut the saw down immediately. The clutch drum on the 390 doesn't seem to have enough side clearance to come off the clutch when the clutch cover is in place.
Could there be enough clearance on the 261 to allow the clutch drum to move outward enough that the clutch shoes would lose contact with it? That could result in a broken shoe if the clutch flew apart?

 

[trains]

Had a center star come apart on an 034S, took out the oil pump too.

Me thinks they tried to undo it anticlockwise, thankfuly the crank survived.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Wow, that's nuts.
Tjere has to be some issue of bad castings of clutches.
Even if the initial problem is crappy C clips, that shouldn't cause that kind of catastrophic failure.

 

[northmanlogging]

Injection molded metal, also known as sintered injection... normally its pretty skookum process, but a little contamination goes KABOOM

Which explains the shoe going awol, the e-clip and the rest of the clutch happens because of the massive vibrations introduced is enough to eject the E clip.

Should be a fairly easy fix though.

 

[northmanlogging]

a saw that new should be covered under warranty FYI

 

[rustyb]

a saw that new should be covered under warranty FYI

I wish! I bought this saw in 2016. Warranty has expired. :-(

 

[HarleyT]

According to the mediacat, it is the same clutch as the ms271. I have dozens laying around.

 

[Wood Doctor]

According to the mediacat, it is the same clutch as the ms271. I have dozens laying around.

Correct. Both are the same part number: 1121 160 2051

 

[HarleyT]

A new shoe costs @ $12 from Stihl.
I'll sell you a new {off a new saw} clutch for $20, I have a few that have developed a spot or two of rust from sitting around.

 

[user 122190]

I had about 1/4" more to cut in the back cut when my saw stopped. Geeze!!! I pull it out, start it, and heard something inside hit the saw then saw something fly out. Then the saw quit.

I took the cover off and found that the E-clip that holds the sprocket on was gone....as well as the washer under it and the needle cage. I then pulled the clutch drum off and saw that the clutch shoe was broken (see pic).

What the heck happened to cause all this? Is this common?

For what it's worth, I have run ~7 gallons of gas through this saw.

We have folks here that claim to run their saws very hard, never clean them, and don't give a shiet. I don't know you or your situation, but some cleaning and maintenance can go along ways in keeping a saw running and running well.

I post a thread about tips or ideas about how to keep a saw clean, and I'm the Anti-Christ. What happened to your saw? You tell us. Might be bad luck, or might be all seven gallons of gas was run all at once over a continious 18 hours in 118 degree temperatures, cutting Australian Buloke.

 

[rustyb]

A new shoe costs @ $12 from Stihl.
I'll sell you a new {off a new saw} clutch for $20, I have a few that have developed a spot or two of rust from sitting around.

Ah, damn! I ordered one from the local shop this morning. I really appreciate the offer though! Thank you!

We have folks here that claim to run their saws very hard, never clean them, and don't give a shiet. I don't know you or your situation, but some cleaning and maintenance can go along ways in keeping a saw running and running well.

I post a thread about tips or ideas about how to keep a saw clean, and I'm the Anti-Christ. What happened to your saw? You tell us. Might be bad luck, or might be all seven gallons of gas was run all at once over a continious 18 hours in 118 degree temperatures, cutting Australian Buloke.

Haha....7 gallons since 2016...in aspen, mostly. And I take a lot of pride when it comes to taking care of my tools. I touch up my chain at each gas up for instance, clean often, and handle with thought and respect. I had some other bad luck the same day so I guess I'll chalk it up as a consequence of walking under the ladder early in the day....

 

[trains]

As already mentioned by northmanlogging, most likely just a flaw in the casting of the part, and you were unfortunate to have gotten it, and had it take out other bits when it failed.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

I would not just replace one shoe in a questionable clutch assembly...

 

[huskihl]

E clip came off first probably. That allowed the bearing to come out which is why your chain got loose. And then the clutch drum started rattling around on the clutch until it broke the shoe

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Damn! Sorry to see it. For future reference and I’m not saying this was the cause of your issue, but just a useful tip - e-clips lose their spring and should be replaced If there isn’t a firm and secure snap when you install them. If they slip on with moderate ease then bin them or they can just fall off. I have had this happen. Also e-clips should be placed with their flat side facing out, the curved side facing the clutch drum.

edit to add: also, don’t bend them together tighter hoping they’ll work again, they won’t. If they don’t secure with a firm snap in their current state, bin them.

 

[rustyb]

Damn! Sorry to see it. For future reference and I’m not saying this was the cause of your issue, but just a useful tip - e-clips lose their spring and should be replaced If there isn’t a firm and secure snap when you install them. If they slip on with moderate ease then bin them or they can just fall off. I have had this happen. Also e-clips should be placed with their flat side facing out, the curved side facing the clutch drum.

edit to add: also, don’t bend them together tighter hoping they’ll work again, they won’t. If they don’t secure with a firm snap in their current state, bin them.

Good tip. Thanks! I never touched this one though....so maybe a fluke or it got messed up in some other manner.