Need a carb kit for the splitter

[Whitespider]

Last weekend when it was colder than billy-ell I tried to start my splitter... she wouldn’t go. It was a bit sluggish pullin’ on the rope ‘cause the hydraulic oil was really cold. Figured I’d disconnect the pump, get the engine running and warm, then reconnect the pump. Still wouldn’t start; didn’t seem to be getting fuel. I ended up pulling the carb and found ice in the bowl and jets; needle and screws rusted and pitted. Anyway, cleaned it up best I could and got it running... gonna’ haft’a pick up a kit for it.

I called dad because he’d been using it up at the lake home over the summer and asked (or accused) him if he let it sit out in the rain all summer. Nope, he assured me he hadn’t. So I ask about the fuel he’d been using. He tells me it was fresh, but all there is to be had in that area is ethanol blend...

Today I did a quick internet search. I think we’ve been lied to about how green, clean and economical ethanol is. Iowa even uses the slogan, “Cleaner Air For Iowa” on the pumps. Any of you other guys have carb deterioration problems in small 4-stroke engines with ethanol? This is what I found in just 10 minutes...

Ethanol combustion in an internal combustion engine yields many of the products of incomplete combustion produced by gasoline and significantly larger amounts of formaldehyde and related species such as acetaldehyde. This leads to a significantly larger photochemical reactivity that generates much more ground level ozone. These data have been assembled into The Clean Fuels Report comparison of fuel emissions and show that ethanol exhaust generates 2.14 times as much ozone as does gasoline exhaust. When this is added into the custom Localized Pollution Index (LPI) of The Clean Fuels Report the local pollution (pollution that contributes to smog) is 1.7 on a scale where gasoline is 1.0 and higher numbers signify greater pollution.

One problem with ethanol is that because it is easily miscible with water, it cannot be efficiently shipped through modern pipelines, like liquid hydrocarbons, over long distances. Mechanics also have seen increased cases of damage to small engines, particularly the carburetor, attributable to ethanol's increased water retention in fuel over time.

Compared with conventional unleaded gasoline, ethanol is a particulate-free burning fuel source that combusts with oxygen to form carbon dioxide, water and aldehydes. Gasoline produces 2.44 CO2 equivalent kilograms per litre and ethanol 1.94. Since ethanol contains 2/3 of the energy per volume as gasoline, ethanol produces 19% more CO2 than gasoline for the same energy.

A study by atmospheric scientists at Stanford University found that E85 fuel would increase the risk of air pollution deaths relative to gasoline by 9% in Los Angeles, a very large, urban, car-based metropolis that is a worst case scenario. Ozone levels are significantly increased, thereby increasing photochemical smog and aggravating medical problems such as asthma.

For each billion ethanol-equivalent gallons of fuel produced and combusted in the US, the combined climate-change and health costs are $469 million for gasoline; the number increases to between $472 million and $952 million for corn ethanol depending on bio-refinery heat source and technology.

Ethanol fuel can negatively affect electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear, cause undesirable spark generation, and is not compatible with capacitance fuel level gauging indicators and may cause erroneous fuel quantity indications in vehicles that employ that system. It is also not always compatible with marine craft, especially those that use fiberglass fuel tanks. Ethanol is also not used in aircraft for these same reasons.

 

[super3]

Yep,welcome to yesterday.

 

[radroy92]

Last weekend when it was colder than billy-ell I tried to start my splitter... she wouldn’t go. It was a bit sluggish pullin’ on the rope ‘cause the hydraulic oil was really cold. Figured I’d disconnect the pump, get the engine running and warm, then reconnect the pump. Still wouldn’t start; didn’t seem to be getting fuel. I ended up pulling the carb and found ice in the bowl and jets; needle and screws rusted and pitted. Anyway, cleaned it up best I could and got it running... gonna’ haft’a pick up a kit for it.

I called dad because he’d been using it up at the lake home over the summer and asked (or accused) him if he let it sit out in the rain all summer. Nope, he assured me he hadn’t. So I ask about the fuel he’d been using. He tells me it was fresh, but all there is to be had in that area is ethanol blend...


Today I did a quick internet search. I think we’ve been lied to about how green, clean and economical ethanol is. Iowa even uses the slogan, “Cleaner Air For Iowa” on the pumps. Any of you other guys have carb deterioration problems in small 4-stroke engines with ethanol? This is what I found in just 10 minutes...

I knew the mixed gas made less power and more co2. Politics. When I get out of the city and fill up my truck has more power and better mileage. I have good luck using fuel stabilizer or just run the small engines dry if I'm not going to use them for a while. If you get a carb kit with new jets and needles make sure they are brass. They might turn green and get gunked up but they will never rust.

Roy

 

[Whitespider]

Well I knew it cost more make than gasoline.
And I knew (from experience) that a lot of stuff didn't run as well with it.

I didn't know it polluted more (cumulatively).

And I sure the heck didn't know it would eat the tip clean off the high-speed screw in my carburetor.
I thought it was at least supposed to be "safe" for all engines.
Good lord, I've now learned the stuff draws water from the atmosphere; how can it be safe for anything?

 

[freemind]

I work on a farm. Ethanol is a STUPID idea, especailly corn ethanol.

This idea was fueled by special interest groups.

Just like the law that banned incadesent light bulbs. Those crappy "green" bulbs are full of mercury. Mercury is supposed to be disposed of in special land fills because of the toxicity. Not to mention, if you break one, you are supposed have a hazmat team come in for a clean up.

 

[mga]

so, do we need a nation-wide protest or petition to stop feeding us ethanol junk?

 

[Whitespider]

Hmmmmmmm....... didn't intend for this one to go political, but looking back at my starting post I surely left it open for that. I was just trying to make the point that there are problems, cloaked by the "Green'n'Clean" crowd, that we are all gonna' haft'a deal with... such as how to keep the carb on my splitter from rotting away.

Ethanol blended fuel is here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future; even a well organized, nationwide push to end it would take years. Where I live it's still possible (for now) to buy ethanol-free gasoline but, according to dad, all fuel in Minnesota must contain 10% ethanol (?) (I haven't confirmed that)

The brass jets, needles and screws are a good idea, if they're available. Stabilizer may help, but I'm not sure how, or if that would stop the absorption of moisture from the atmosphere (research is needed?). Yeah, running the small engine dry is one idea, but not very practical for an engine used often, or daily and still does nothing to protect the 5-gallon can of fuel sitting in the shed.

One other problem I had once I got the thing running... the crankcase vent would freeze/plug with where it connected to the carb (actually internally) causing oil to be forced out of the engine. Of course the easy fix was to disconnect it from the carb and let it vent to atmosphere.

Now here's the real kicker... Last weekend, after talking with dad, and after I brought the fuel can into the house (basement) to warm up and melt any ice in the can. I shook it up a little and poured some of that fuel into a closed glass jar, and let it sit over night; no water separated from the fuel. Then I shook it again and set it outside overnight (-20 degrees or so); there was ice in the bottom of the jar the next morning. Sure makes me wonder how much ice is sitting in the bottom of gas tanks in Minnesota?

I wonder what the addition of HEET (methanol) would do? Does methanol hold water in solution, or suspension, or whatever at colder temps? And is the addition of methanol and/or fuel stabilizer to a ethanol/gasoline blend even a good idea?

 

[mga]

your dad is right...EPA mandated that all fuels beginning jan 1st have at least 10% ethanol.

i didn't mean to make it political, but i believe the intent of using ethanol, knowing full well what it will do to "older" engines, was the game plan to eventually get rid of them by rendering them useless, thereby forcing people to replace them with more EPA friendly engines. as the percentage of ethanol slowly is increased, old engines will become obsolete.

 

[knockbill]

[QUOTE
Just like the law that banned incadesent light bulbs. Those crappy "green" bulbs are full of mercury. Mercury is supposed to be disposed of in special land fills because of the toxicity. Not to mention, if you break one, you are supposed have a hazmat team come in for a clean up.[/QUOTE]

a little off topic,,, but you mentioned the "green" bulbs,,, here in philly, they are finding that all the led bulbs they used to replace incandescents in teh the traffic signals run too cool to melt teh snow on them,,,, so, there has been a rash of traffic accidents, because teh traffic lights appear to be not working..............

 

[Whitespider]

...EPA mandated that all fuels beginning jan 1st have at least 10% ethanol.

Hmmmm.... That doesn't seem to be the case, I can still buy ethanol-free 87 and 91 octane at the local HyVee gas, just their 89 octane contains ethanol.

 

[mga]

Hmmmm.... That doesn't seem to be the case, I can still buy ethanol-free 87 and 91 octane at the local HyVee gas, just their 89 octane contains ethanol.

i had emailed Kwik-Fill and aksed them how much ethanol, if any, was in their gas.

they told me the EPA, as of jan. 1st mandated that. just going by what they told me. wish i didn't delete their answer, i'd paste it here.

 

[olyman]

Well I knew it cost more make than gasoline.
And I knew (from experience) that a lot of stuff didn't run as well with it.

I didn't know it polluted more (cumulatively).

And I sure the heck didn't know it would eat the tip clean off the high-speed screw in my carburetor.
I thought it was at least supposed to be "safe" for all engines.
Good lord, I've now learned the stuff draws water from the atmosphere; how can it be safe for anything?

bad as people feel eth is--it wont eat the steel off of the fuel screw--

 

[Whitespider]

But rust will.
Right?

 

[ICindrich]

Hmmmm.... That doesn't seem to be the case, I can still buy ethanol-free 87 and 91 octane at the local HyVee gas, just their 89 octane contains ethanol.

I had a couple of stints as a pump jockey in high school. I am almost positive that 89 octane fuel (or any between the regular and premium) are blended by the pump to make the desired in between blend.

 

[firewood guy]

I work on a farm. Ethanol is a STUPID idea, especailly corn ethanol.

This idea was fueled by special interest groups.

Just like the law that banned incadesent light bulbs. Those crappy "green" bulbs are full of mercury. Mercury is supposed to be disposed of in special land fills because of the toxicity. Not to mention, if you break one, you are supposed have a hazmat team come in for a clean up.

Like others have said, ethanal derived from grain requires more energy (input) costs that it yields in (output) energy. The American public has been sold a bill of goods that nobody can pay for. This illogical "solution" to the nations energy needs is snake - oil at it's best. Stay tuned... the powers in control are ready to unleash the rest of their adjenda.....

 

[Whitespider]

I had a couple of stints as a pump jockey in high school. I am almost positive that 89 octane fuel (or any between the regular and premium) are blended by the pump to make the desired in between blend.

It is Iowa law that any pump dispensing an ethanol blended (1% or greater) fuel must be labeled. There are nine fuel stations in the closest town, only two have 91 octane, seven of those have only 87 & 89 octane fuel so they can't be blending a low/high to get the 89 octane. At three of those seven, and the two that have 91 octane, it is very clearly labeled that only the 89 octane contains ethanol. I haven't personally talked with the owners/managers, but dad has and continues to check with them because he will only burn ethanol-free, 91+ octane in his Corvette.

 

[Whitespider]

Guys -
I spent over an hour on the EPA web site last night and another hour this morning, I can't find anything requiring ethanol in all gasoline. I did learn that six states have mandatory E10 laws, Minnesota, Montana, Missouri, Hawaii, Oregon and Florida, but in nearly every case there are exemptions for non-highway use engines and antique automobiles (of course the problem would be finding a seller). From what I've found, there isn't any such mandatory EPA ethanol regulation, but... The EISA 2007 regulations set quotas, based on the projected use of E85, and now it seems E85 is going nowhere. So rather than admit the EISA 2007 is bad law, the EPA is pushing for more E10 (and now E15) blending to try and meet the EISA 2007 quotas. The EPA is using tax breaks and economic pressures (strong-arm tactics?) to get more and more fuel terminals to blend ethanol.

Now here's the real kicker... If all the terminals in a geographic area install blending equipment the refinery can supply low octane fuel (read cheaper to refine). For example, they need only supply that area with 84 octane because the added ethanol raises the octane level to 87. Because ethanol blended fuel gives less fuel mileage the refineries end up selling more fuel, and the fuel (because of the lower octane) is cheaper for them to make. So now we have the refineries also pressuring the terminals to install the blending equipment.

There isn't any law requiring all gasoline to contain ethanol on January 1, 2011... but the requirement for the amount of ethanol produced goes up in 2011 (and every year after), they're just having a problem figuring out what to do with the stuff because E85 fell on its face. It's all politics after all, and we're the ones who will be taking it in the shorts. Luckily, here in Iowa, we won't be forced into the "all ethanol-all fuel" thing for a while yet.

And guess why Iowa won't be pressured into the all-ethanol thing anytime soon? Again, it's all politics, just follow the money. Why would the EPA or refineries focus their attentions on Iowa? We're small potatoes in the market with a low population density, it's you guys living in the high population density, larger market areas who'll be getting screwed first. Even though we make more of the stuff than any other state, Iowa won't pass a mandatory ethanol law, because we make a ton more money exporting it to your state rather than using it here! LOL

 

[bejay]

ya its hard to find anything on that site couldnt find anything also, but I did find alot on using ethanol as an additive to the fuel to reduce emmissions to replace the more polluting additives such as mtbe, but were probably talking less than 10 percent here, and I dont think the use of oxygenated fuel is still required.
im not totally against ethanol but it is hard on carbs and fuel systems if there not designed for it and e85 does look like its going to be a flop even in vehicles that are designed for it, e85 is either going to have to get cheaper or gas is going to have to go way up for it to get used much cause right now the price difference isnt worth the drop in mpg.

 

[ICindrich]

It is Iowa law that any pump dispensing an ethanol blended (1% or greater) fuel must be labeled. There are nine fuel stations in the closest town, only two have 91 octane, seven of those have only 87 & 89 octane fuel so they can't be blending a low/high to get the 89 octane. At three of those seven, and the two that have 91 octane, it is very clearly labeled that only the 89 octane contains ethanol. I haven't personally talked with the owners/managers, but dad has and continues to check with them because he will only burn ethanol-free, 91+ octane in his Corvette.

Got ya Whitespider,
Unfortunately for us Rhode Islanders, everything we get is E85. Almost every station has a low of 87 octane and a high of 93. E-85 is bad enough in cars and small engines but even worse on the boats. As mentioned before, it eats fiberglass tanks(I read something a few years back stating that of the 1000+ types of fiberglass resin used, only 2 are "ethanol proof". Even boats with steel or aluminum tanks are feeling the problem as they hold massive amounts of water. I haven't used my boat much over the past 3 years but keep the tank full, as this was what was taught to me in the pre-E85 days. Past summer I had to change the water separator filter twice a trip for the first 5 or so times I used it because there was so much water in the tank.

 

[ray benson]

Got ya Whitespider,
Unfortunately for us Rhode Islanders, everything we get is E85. Almost every station has a low of 87 octane and a high of 93. E-85 is bad enough in cars and small engines but even worse on the boats. As mentioned before, it eats fiberglass tanks(I read something a few years back stating that of the 1000+ types of fiberglass resin used, only 2 are "ethanol proof". Even boats with steel or aluminum tanks are feeling the problem as they hold massive amounts of water. I haven't used my boat much over the past 3 years but keep the tank full, as this was what was taught to me in the pre-E85 days. Past summer I had to change the water separator filter twice a trip for the first 5 or so times I used it because there was so much water in the tank.

Are you sure you can't get e-10? Most 2 cycle boat motors ,chainsaws and old cars can't run e-85.