Need help with a stubborn Blake's Hitch

[user 182564]

Recently I've been having trouble with my blake's hitch while repelling. It gets incredibly stubborn and will not repel smoothly, so I have to hold the rope and yank it down, then lower myself however far I brought the blake's hitch down (if that makes sense). It just won't slide smoothly. I have double-checked it so many times and know that I'm tying it correctly. Is there anything I can do about it?
It's worth mentioning that the gear I'm using isn't in the newest or best of condition because it's a class at the school I go to, but it seems like I'm the only one having these issues. I excel in every other area of tree climbing so far (I think), so this has been pretty annoying for such a simple thing to hold me back.
Please also keep in mind that I'm new and have an incredibly basic understanding, thanks!

 

[pdqdl]

What kind of rope are you using? It makes a difference.
Is it covered in pitch, perhaps rope burned or soft & fuzzy? These can all cause problems.

Myself, I've never been fond of the Blakes. You might wish to consider a prussic cord. I find that an 8mm prussic cord with a 7-turn friction hitch has much less tendency to bind up on me than the Blakes. Another option might be adding a turn to your Blakes, or perhaps experimenting with how far around the coil you are finishing with your tail-tuck. The only disaster you can have is tying one that won't hold at all, and you can test that before you get somewhere precarious.

 

[Bango Skank]

Just making sure of something here.

The rope isn’t tied off in the canopy, right? It’s passed over a branch or false crotch and attached to your saddle and your hitch is on the other leg of rope?

I just want to make sure you’re not trying to descend a single stationary rope on a hitch alone.

 

[user 182564]

What kind of rope are you using? It makes a difference.
Is it covered in pitch, perhaps rope burned or soft & fuzzy? These can all cause problems.

Myself, I've never been fond of the Blakes. You might wish to consider a prussic cord. I find that an 8mm prussic cord with a 7-turn friction hitch has much less tendency to bind up on me than the Blakes. Another option might be adding a turn to your Blakes, or perhaps experimenting with how far around the coil you are finishing with your tail-tuck. The only disaster you can have is tying one that won't hold at all, and you can test that before you get somewhere precarious.

Sorry, I don't know the type of rope, but I do know that it definitely has some fuzz on it.
Also, I can't seem to find anywhere online what a 7-turn friction hitch is. Do you mind explaining what it is, or linking an article/video?
I'll definitely try adding another turn to my blake though.

 

[pdqdl]

You know, that's a good point, Bango. I hadn't considered that.

Perhaps the OP (original poster) will comment on what class they are taking, and give us a bit more info about the climbing setup they are using.

 

[user 182564]

Just making sure of something here.

The rope isn’t tied off in the canopy, right? It’s passed over a branch or false crotch and attached to your saddle and your hitch is on the other leg of rope?

I just want to make sure you’re not trying to descend a single stationary rope on a hitch alone.

Oh yea, definitely not trying to descend on a single stationary rope like that haha

 

[user 182564]

You know, that's a good point, Bango. I hadn't considered that.

Perhaps the OP (original poster) will comment on what class they are taking, and give us a bit more info about the climbing setup they are using.

I'm taking a pretty general forestry and landscaping class, and I'm climbing on an open split-tail system if that helps any.

 

[pdqdl]

Sorry, I don't know the type of rope, but I do know that it definitely has some fuzz on it.
Also, I can't seem to find anywhere online what a 7-turn friction hitch is. Do you mind explaining what it is, or linking an article/video?
I'll definitely try adding another turn to my blake though.

Open split tail tells me a lot. Blake's should be fine for you, so something is not quite right.

Just take a picture of your rope and then upload it. The exact type of rope isn't as important as the general construction.

When it comes to ropes, as a newbie, you need to try to understand as much as you can about rope construction. Different rope constructions behave differently, different materials make a huge difference to your survival aloft.

There are basically 4 different types of rope construction.

• Twist or 3-strand rope is the basic rope that mankind has been using for thousands of years. Easily spliced and holds knots great. Hard to handle, and pure hell to climb on with a friction hitch. This is the kind of rope many of us old-timers started on.
• simple braided rope. Some varieties are easily splices, and some are nearly impossible. Generally, they make good climbing ropes with lots of strength.
• Double braided rope. Somewhat harder to splice, they consist of a braided rope inside the middle of another braided rope. This is probably the most popular rope for arborists, although they have a draw-back: the inner and outer ropes can get too loose relative to the other, and then there are strength and handling problems.
• Kernmantle rope. This has a woven outer shell, with a core of fibers down the middle. The strength of the rope is all drawn from the core, while the shell protects the core. This seems to be most popular for rock climbing, and isn't generally used by arborists. Splicing is out of the question (at least for the shell), and I think durability and knot holding are similar to double-braid.

The tightness of braid (or twist) can determine how hard the rope is to handle, the materials they are made out of make a huge difference as to how strong they are and how much stretch is present. If you were to have a 10 foot fall on an amsteel rope, it would break you in half. Conversely, I've seen rock climbers casually jump off the rock face and fall that far on their stretchy ropes and have no discomfort at all.

In the same respect, our ability to advise you on your hitch problems is a bit limited without a little more information.

 

[pdqdl]

I use a 28" long 8mm beeline prussic with a Valdotain-tresse "VT" friction hitch on my 10mm Velocity climbing line.

You can look all that stuff up on the internet, right?

The Beeline rope is a fabulous rope, but quite expensive. It has a melting point of around 900°, so it will never melt down and fuse to a rope. It is also exceptionally tough to abrasion. On the other hand, it also passes the heat right through to your hand, so don't think that is the answer to sliding out of a tree real fast.

If you are climbing on school materials or some old chunk of rope you got used, you are likely to be on Arborplex. It is a decent rope, and should work fine for you.

 

[user 182564]

Open split tail tells me a lot. Blake's should be fine for you, so something is not quite right.

Just take a picture of your rope and then upload it. The exact type of rope isn't as important as the general construction.

When it comes to ropes, as a newbie, you need to try to understand as much as you can about rope construction. Different rope constructions behave differently, different materials make a huge difference to your survival aloft.

There are basically 4 different types of rope construction.

• Twist or 3-strand rope is the basic rope that mankind has been using for thousands of years. Easily spliced and holds knots great. Hard to handle, and pure hell to climb on with a friction hitch. This is the kind of rope many of us old-timers started on.
• simple braided rope. Some varieties are easily splices, and some are nearly impossible. Generally, they make good climbing ropes with lots of strength.
• Double braided rope. Somewhat harder to splice, they consist of a braided rope inside the middle of another braided rope. This is probably the most popular rope for arborists, although they have a draw-back: the inner and outer ropes can get too loose relative to the other, and then there are strength and handling problems.
• Kernmantle rope. This has a woven outer shell, with a core of fibers down the middle. The strength of the rope is all drawn from the core, while the shell protects the core. This seems to be most popular for rock climbing, and isn't generally used by arborists. Splicing is out of the question, and I think durability and knot holding are similar to double-braid.

The tightness of braid (or twist) can determine how hard the rope is to handle, the materials they are made out of make a huge difference as to how strong they are and how much stretch is present. If you were to have a 10 foot fall on an amsteel rope, it would break you in half. Conversely, I've seen rock climbers casually jump off the rock face and fall that far on their stretchy ropes and have no discomfort at all.

In the same respect, our ability to advise you on your hitch problems is a bit limited without a little more information.

Wow thanks, this is all really helpful. I'll try to get a picture of the rope I've been using tomorrow!

 

[pdqdl]

Just be sure to include a picture of your Blake's hitch with it. Put a quarter in the pic, then we can gauge the size of your rope, too.

Like this:





I really like this combination because it never binds up (like you are experiencing) and the VT hitch is marvelously light on ascending the rope. On the other hand, it is a bit more fussy a knot, as it needs to be tended more while climbing. It needs to be "set", otherwise it can just slide down the rope. Obviously, rope condition is very important when you are using a more advanced friction hitch.

I like the 10mm rope to climb on because it is just less weight to lug around all the time. It is also much harder to hang on to than the 1/2" ropes, but I mostly use a Petzl ascender anyway.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

PD and Bango covered it all well... my only question is why are you asking questions here instead of your instructor? An extra wrap on your Blake's is the easy solution, but that is something your instructor should have caught and suggested...

 

[pdqdl]

I was going to suggest that he have the instructor check it out, too. Then, as I thought about it, I can't imagine a combined general forestry and landscaping course where the instructor is checking out folks while they are in a tree swinging from a rope. That sounds like an activity that would only be found in an exclusively arborist-oriented class.

I suspect our arborial student is working a bit outside the curriculum.

 

[old CB]

Like so many, I learned to climb on a Blake's hitch. I was taught to make the Blake's with 5 turns, 3 below and 2 above, as I recall. I found the 5-turn model to be too grabby, and I converted to 4-turn, 2 above & 2 below, which seems smoother to operate. So I would advise against adding a turn if your setup is too grabby. And, as has been pointed out, pitch on your rope will make it grabby.

Like PDQL, I graduated to a VT with a tending pulley. But I think it best to learn the Blakes, because in a pinch you can tie one with whatever cordage. While at camp last summer I took myself up and down a tree (to mount a wood duck box 20' up) with a blakes tied in my rigging rope.

 

[pdqdl]

CB, buddy, I think you may have crossed up your terminology. "3 below and 2 above" would be an odd variety of taut-line hitch. "2 above & 2 below" might be the standard mountaineer's prussic hitch (assuming you had the rotation done correctly), or a taut-line if all rotations were in the same direction. A Boy Scout taut-line (as shown in the manual) is just one above and two below.

A Blake's hitch doesn't really have any "below" wraps, even though the tail does exit in the middle of the wraps. The load on the knot is below all the wraps.


On a prussic knot or taut-line, the load is placed on the middle of the knot.

 

[old CB]

CB, buddy, I think you may have crossed up your terminology. "3 below and 2 above" would be an odd variety of taut-line hitch. "2 above & 2 below" might be the standard mountaineer's prussic hitch (assuming you had the rotation done correctly), or a taut-line if all rotations were in the same direction. A Boy Scout taut-line (as shown in the manual) is just one above and two below.

A Blake's hitch doesn't really have any "below" wraps, even though the tail does exit in the middle of the wraps. The load on the knot is below all the wraps.


On a prussic knot or taut-line, the load is placed on the middle of the knot.

Nope, I'm talking about the Blake's--just like shown in the video you feature. The "above and below" I'm talking about is above and below where the tail emerges. I was taught 5 turns before the final around and through, which left 3 turns below where the tail emerges and two turns above. Which I found grabby on descent. Two turns above, and two below, are what your Brit guy shows and how I tie the Blake's.

 

[pdqdl]

Ok. Just checking. I've not ever heard of anyone using that description for a Blake's is all.

By the way: us really old timers never heard of a Blake's hitch until "modern" arboriculture took over. I started out on a Boy Scout taut-line hitch on 3-strand nylon, and that was a real upgrade from the manilla rope that was still available.

To it's credit, that knot holds quite well on 3 strand.

 

[gumneck]

I agree, that 5 turns is probably the problem with the grabbiness. I learned it to make 2 turns, put thumb up after second turn then make two more turns above.