Newbie Forestry Logging Building Questions

[customcutter]

Hey guys, recently retired a few months ago, 63 now and wanted to build a log home since I was about 30. We presently live on 1/4 acre 2100 sq ft home and pay about $2500 yr in property taxes, and have to pull a permit to put up a shed or a fence.

My in-laws live in Alabama on 700 acres, bigger home, more buildings, structures, etc and pay $700/yr in taxes and live in an un-restricted county.

I'm thinking of buying 75-100 acres wooded or partially wooded (wooded is cheaper). Pouring a 30x50 or 40x50 slab and using a portable bandsaw mill to build a shop (temporary home), while I build my 2-3000 sq ft log home.

Portable Sawmills I'm looking at either a used WoodMizer LT40 or 50 if the price is right or a Cooks HD 3238. I really like some of the features on the Cooks and think it's a better value just looking at video's. (haven't seen one yet)

Most of the re-planted trees in Ga and Al are long leaf pine, a fast growing variety. Is this suitable for lumber for the shop framing and siding or are they only used for pulp wood? I know in north Ga last week we saw some nice spruce type trees, but we will probably be down near Dothan-Eufala area. I think these trees could be harvested and sawn wet with out issues, or would warping be a problem?

I'm also planning on using the same trees for logs in the cabin. My plan was to "ring" the trees when we get the property, let them die and start drying out, and harvest them 6months or a year later. They will be lighter and easier to handle and peel. I plan on using 12-16" log about 20' long. I've heard that harvesting dead or diseased trees is also an option. Any ideas on cost of contracting someone to do that? I know the wood isn't worth much commercially supposedly???

Thoughts, comments, opinions are welcome. Trying to form a plan.
thanks in advance,
Ken

 

[mesupra]

There are many portable type mill's that will serve your purpose. Make sure you can saw out to around 18- 20'

 

[customcutter]

Yes, both the WM and Cooks will cut to 21'.

Should have mentioned I also have 3 herniated disc in my lower back so hydraulics is a must. No log lifting or rolling for me.

thanks, Ken

 

[mesupra]

Yea a Turner would be great on our mill. Esp when cutting 30" plus wood. We have a Hudson farm boss 36

 

[hseII]

How are you planning on handling Big wood?

30” is about max for a LT-40, & quite frankly, I wouldn’t want to handle much larger for a bandsaw Mill.

Do they make bigger ones?
Sure they do, but all the other equipment must be bigger to accommodate the big wood.

I’d recommend sticking with an LT-40 Hydraulic unless you’ve got additional money to burn.

As far as Southern Yellow Pine,

The logs above became the pictures I sent you in the PM.

P.S.,
White Beard is my Dad.


Yes I know I just said go with a smaller mill due to the additional Equipment needs of a larger mill, then posted a picture of a lull.

It’s an option, but it’s like everything else, additional $.

I doubt you’ll find a used LT-50, but all things are possible.

Buy your vertical sections unless you are re-sawing long ago sawn beams: the wall paneling or sheet rock will fall off the walls if you try to saw your own studs.

It’s just difficult to keep the studs straight enough.

Everything else, Just Saw It.

My grandfather’s house was built 60 years ago by the above method, albeit off a circle saw mill, or Pecker Mill with Green Lumber & purchased Studs.

When we remodeled his house in the early 2000s, everybody wanted to step up a hammer Size cause the old lumber was a bit solid & tight compared to what we were accustomed to working with. Think 2 1/2”x 12” floor joist.

But, it was & still is straight as the day it was nailed in.

You need a bigger saw.

I suggest a MS461 with a 28” bar. Start watching the trader.

 

[Trx250r180]

My findings in the milling and warped boards ,mostly come from milling bent logs like the one on the right ,or offset hearts like the one on the left ,if can get heart close to the center will have more stable boards .

 

[hseII]

My findings in the milling and warped boards ,mostly come from milling bent logs like the one on the right ,or offset hearts like the one on the left ,if can get heart close to the center will have more stable boards .

This is true, but it’s difficult to mill the quantity of boards needed for wall studs due to needing perfectly straight trees.

Joist & siding seem to just do better.

 

[customcutter]

Hey Heath, the shop/temp home I hope to only live in for 6months -1 year. I was planning on slab foundation, PT pine on that and then sawn framing from there with vertical siding and 1x2" over the cracks. Probably not even lining the interior walls, except maybe the bathroom/kitchen area. Metal roofing. Just something to eat/sleep in when we are there working on the new log home.

I'm hoping to find property with trees that I can cut 20' sections out of that are 12-16" in diameter to use for the log home. Yes that's going to be heavy, I'm hoping to borrow a Massey Ferguson tractor that my In-laws have that has a front set of forks on it. I've also considered purchasing some type of equipment but not sure what yet. I was thinking the other night that a back-hoe would be perfect. Stacked logs on one side, load them on the saw, cut the cants, unload and stack on the opposite side. But that's probably a little pricey? I'd like to have something that could be used to lift and place the logs on the walls also. I've been thinking about ways to load the logs onto the trailer with cables and a 4 wheeler. Off loading is another problem??? Also wondering what I'm going to do with all of the scraps???? Had one fellow tell me you're not in the saw business your in the trucking business.... I don't think I want to do this commercially, but who knows....

As far as saws I've got a 570 on the bench, that I got for $230. It's a little low on compression, and when I pulled the muffler I could see the piston was lightly scored. Just cleaned up the piston, cyl, and ring, and measured the squish. It's .038, I'd like to do a gasket delete, but there's a gap between the two halves of the case that's .0035", so I think a gasket delete is not an option. Maybe a thinner gasket???

The HD3236 will cut 36 in logs and I think the LT50 will cut 30 or 32??? Have you guys looked at the Cooks saws? A lot of extra features for less money IMHO. Especially on this model vs the lt40.

thanks for the tips,
Ken

 

[Trx250r180]

My mill scraps turn into firewood for the shop .I have a backhoe ,but it is old like a 1974 case ,hard to see over the hood loading the mill ,i have an old skid loader i put forks on ,it does a lot ,very nice for putting logs on the mill with as right in front of you is all vision ,also being a skid steer if log is crooked can pivot in your own spot to position the log on the mill .My chainsaw mill ,not fancy but it gets wood cut up .

 

[customcutter]

There you go, I've wanted a fireplace, almost as long as I've wanted a log home, and nothing to say you can't put a wood heater in the large shop. Sometimes the answers are just staring you in the face. We get 5-6 days a year down hear that we have to turn the heat on. LOL.

Nothing wrong with the CSM, I was wanting one when Irma came through and left all these large trees down. Lot of good wood went to the chippers and dumps. I just came to the realization I'm to old to be pushing and pulling on those big pieces any more. Going to have to have some hydraulics if it's going to get done, or cables and pulleys, etc.

 

[hseII]

Hey Heath, the shop/temp home I hope to only live in for 6months -1 year. I was planning on slab foundation, PT pine on that and then sawn framing from there with vertical siding and 1x2" over the cracks. Probably not even lining the interior walls, except maybe the bathroom/kitchen area. Metal roofing. Just something to eat/sleep in when we are there working on the new log home.

I'm hoping to find property with trees that I can cut 20' sections out of that are 12-16" in diameter to use for the log home. Yes that's going to be heavy, I'm hoping to borrow a Massey Ferguson tractor that my In-laws have that has a front set of forks on it. I've also considered purchasing some type of equipment but not sure what yet. I was thinking the other night that a back-hoe would be perfect. Stacked logs on one side, load them on the saw, cut the cants, unload and stack on the opposite side. But that's probably a little pricey? I'd like to have something that could be used to lift and place the logs on the walls also. I've been thinking about ways to load the logs onto the trailer with cables and a 4 wheeler. Off loading is another problem??? Also wondering what I'm going to do with all of the scraps???? Had one fellow tell me you're not in the saw business your in the trucking business.... I don't think I want to do this commercially, but who knows....

As far as saws I've got a 570 on the bench, that I got for $230. It's a little low on compression, and when I pulled the muffler I could see the piston was lightly scored. Just cleaned up the piston, cyl, and ring, and measured the squish. It's .038, I'd like to do a gasket delete, but there's a gap between the two halves of the case that's .0035", so I think a gasket delete is not an option. Maybe a thinner gasket???

The HD3236 will cut 36 in logs and I think the LT50 will cut 30 or 32??? Have you guys looked at the Cooks saws? A lot of extra features for less money IMHO. Especially on this model vs the lt40.

thanks for the tips,
Ken

I went with a Kubota M7060 Utility tractor for the additional usage,

but a skid steer link I mentioned could be had in the $10,000 range.

We’ve sawn 32”ish logs on our LT-40s.

Download a log weight calculator.

I use the Norwood’s.

 

[customcutter]

Yes a tractor definetly has more all around uses. The in-laws have the small yellow MF with the forks that handles 5' hay bales easily, not sure about 2300#. I think it 40-50HP. Then they have 2 old red MF that they used to use baling hay many years ago. They also 4 fairly new JD cabbed tractors that are 125-150HP that they use to custom bale hay with. They sold off 400+ head of cows with calves several years ago when the market peaked. Now they are just custom baling hay. They are semi-retired at 84 yrs old and leasing out the farm. The little yellow MF doesn't see much use unless the JD with the hay spear won't handle it, but he does have forks for it.

I'd have to buy a green on though or he'd **** a brick. Nothing but American made. He won't wear it, eat it, drink it, what ever if it says anything but American on it. We buy him lottery tickets for birthdays and Christmas. LOL

 

[hseII]

Yes a tractor definetly has more all around uses. The in-laws have the small yellow MF with the forks that handles 5' hay bales easily, not sure about 2300#. I think it 40-50HP. Then they have 2 old red MF that they used to use baling hay many years ago. They also 4 fairly new JD cabbed tractors that are 125-150HP that they use to custom bale hay with. They sold off 400+ head of cows with calves several years ago when the market peaked. Now they are just custom baling hay. They are semi-retired at 84 yrs old and leasing out the farm. The little yellow MF doesn't see much use unless the JD with the hay spear won't handle it, but he does have forks for it.

I'd have to buy a green on though or he'd **** a brick. Nothing but American made. He won't wear it, eat it, drink it, what ever if it says anything but American on it. We buy him lottery tickets for birthdays and Christmas. LOL

You can’t buy a new US Made Green Tractor in the 50-70hp range.

The best respected series ever, the 50 & 55 series smaller tractors were made in France so he’s either running Big Green or Old Green if he follows his rules.

We’ve had the better part of a dozen of them through the years.

The MFs are made overseas also.

I’ll take Japan over India, (John Deere), Turkey, I think (MF), or China any day.

 

[customcutter]

No, he doesn't have anything less than 125HP. When they were in Montezuma GA, he had a 12 wheeler, dang tires were about 7' tall from what I remember. Almost 300HP, my son used to go up on summer vacation and run the tractor. They were farming 1800 acres then. Sold out and moved to Quitman, near Valdosta, then over to Geneva AL about 10 years ago.

 

[hseII]

No, he doesn't have anything less than 125HP. When they were in Montezuma GA, he had a 12 wheeler, dang tires were about 7' tall from what I remember. Almost 300HP, my son used to go up on summer vacation and run the tractor. They were farming 1800 acres then. Sold out and moved to Quitman, near Valdosta, then over to Geneva AL about 10 years ago.

It’s sad to say, but Kubota is the best thing going in the 50-70hp Utility Tractor market.

Compare for yourself & you’ll see why I bought from Big Orange.

 

[northmanlogging]

Hey guys, recently retired a few months ago, 63 now and wanted to build a log home since I was about 30. We presently live on 1/4 acre 2100 sq ft home and pay about $2500 yr in property taxes, and have to pull a permit to put up a shed or a fence.

My in-laws live in Alabama on 700 acres, bigger home, more buildings, structures, etc and pay $700/yr in taxes and live in an un-restricted county.

I'm thinking of buying 75-100 acres wooded or partially wooded (wooded is cheaper). Pouring a 30x50 or 40x50 slab and using a portable bandsaw mill to build a shop (temporary home), while I build my 2-3000 sq ft log home.

Portable Sawmills I'm looking at either a used WoodMizer LT40 or 50 if the price is right or a Cooks HD 3238. I really like some of the features on the Cooks and think it's a better value just looking at video's. (haven't seen one yet)

Most of the re-planted trees in Ga and Al are long leaf pine, a fast growing variety. Is this suitable for lumber for the shop framing and siding or are they only used for pulp wood? I know in north Ga last week we saw some nice spruce type trees, but we will probably be down near Dothan-Eufala area. I think these trees could be harvested and sawn wet with out issues, or would warping be a problem?

I'm also planning on using the same trees for logs in the cabin. My plan was to "ring" the trees when we get the property, let them die and start drying out, and harvest them 6months or a year later. They will be lighter and easier to handle and peel. I plan on using 12-16" log about 20' long. I've heard that harvesting dead or diseased trees is also an option. Any ideas on cost of contracting someone to do that? I know the wood isn't worth much commercially supposedly???

Thoughts, comments, opinions are welcome. Trying to form a plan.
thanks in advance,
Ken

As for milling, I know next to nothing.

But you asked about contracting the logging, many things to be aware of here...

Loggers should get paid with the wood, i.e. the wood they cut and send to a mill, is how they get paid. This becomes an issue if you intend to keep all the saw wood... Not that we don't mind cash, check or credit cards... it just keeps everyone honest if they get paid from the timber rather then some made up number.

There is going to be a massive mess, limbs, tops, ruts, mud are all part of logging, good loggers will minimize the mess and damage to the land, but its not unavoidable.

There are several ways to work a contract being lump sum or percentage, this is somewhat regional, but personally i like percentage, keeps everyone honest. For what you intend to do, it might be a kinda deal where they take X amount of timber at X percentage, and leave X amount of board feet for you to saw, say they log it for 60-70% and leave 10-20000 bf for you to play with. Yer just going to have to talk to the local loggers.

Don't be afraid to contact a county or commercial forester, they know the timber better than any of us here.

finally... I think... 70-100 acres is potentially a whole bunch of wood... many 1000's of board feet, way more then enough to build a couple log cabins. So it might be better to find yerself an up and coming logger, one with small equipment and small overhead that can come in and cut a couple few loads, and leave a month or 3 worth of home saw stuff, and mosey on back as needed.

 

[customcutter]

I should have clarified, I don't want to clear cut the property I'm buying. I was wondering about purchasing logs from off-site and having them brought in. Especially dead dry trees, something that hasn't damaged the integrity of the wood. I would only cut enough trees on my property to build with and hopefully do it myself.

Your post does bring up another question though. I'm wondering what the approximate cost is to clean up the land is after a property has been clear cut? Removing stumps, debris etc. I would think it would cost more than the land at approx $1200/acre?

thanks,
Ken

 

[northmanlogging]

I should have clarified, I don't want to clear cut the property I'm buying. I was wondering about purchasing logs from off-site and having them brought in. Especially dead dry trees, something that hasn't damaged the integrity of the wood. I would only cut enough trees on my property to build with and hopefully do it myself.

Your post does bring up another question though. I'm wondering what the approximate cost is to clean up the land is after a property has been clear cut? Removing stumps, debris etc. I would think it would cost more than the land at approx $1200/acre?

thanks,
Ken

Ah, fer the first side then you would just have to call around and find local loggers willing to sell you stuff, but your going to have to compete with any local mills as for pricing, knowing your markets is important then.

I figure about 40 hours to the acre for full clean up, including stumping etc, then an additional cost if the brush needs hauled off (local laws suck) or another couple days to burn it. Rates change all over the country, out here its anywhere from $100 to $150 an hour 5k on average per acre... plus removal.

another option is to bring in a tub grinder, and mulch everything, makes everything real purdy, but they is uber spensive.

 

[customcutter]

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Anything clear cut is going to cost more to clean up than the land is worth where I'm looking to buy. I've seen a few in the $1200-1500/acre with woods on them. What I haven't inquired about is if that includes the timber rights????

 

[northmanlogging]

to be clear though, stacking the brush etc should just be part of the logging, its the stumping that gets expensive.