Newby needs help with bar damage and bar/chain choices

[chaddemler1980]

So I recently inherited 2 stihl saws, ms361 and ms461, fully serviced 1 month ago. Both saws are all original
Ms361 has new 20" stihl bar
Ms461 has new 25" stihl bar
Both run stihl yellow chains

In 1 month and appx 2 cords of wood "ash" the 20" has ruined 3 bars "chains grinding into the middle of the bottom guides." It has been checked by 2 very reputable tech guys and it is oiling properly. What am I doing wrong! 1 response was I might be twisting or cutting at an angle, another response by a tech who actually watched me cut a piece of oak was that I was digging the dog in hard and putting way to much pressure on the saw. Which I will admit I may do that especially when cutting 24" ash I'll put my thigh under it and put more pressure on it to get through it quicker.
But why does this not happen on the 25" bar on the ms461 saw? Both are used almost the same amount.

Secondly I'm going to keep the ms361 at the 20" bar size but I want the ms461 to run the 25" stihl bar and buy a larger 32" bar for the 30" oak I have to cut. Price of the stihl bars at that length is quite high. Will Oregon bars prove to be just as reliable/good? Should I think about going to a .063 bar vs .050 for that size? And how do Oregon chains compare to the stihl yellow brand? Never tried any chain other than stihl on it.

I also got some head shaking when the tech asked what I ran for bar oil... "cheap fvp brand from local menards". Is it really that bad? Any suggestions on cheap bar oil?

 

[Bubster]

If you are "dogging" a saw that hard, it is dull. Ash is hardwood, but not that hard. Chain too dull, too tight, too much pressure, maybe some other factors. But mostly chain.

 

[Bubster]

Also,as far as gauge goes, buy whatever your closest dealer carries the most of. But .063 will be your best choice if your pushing your saw that hard.

 

[Backstage]

Definitely look at your chain sharpness. It’s the replacement for displacement!

To check on your saw shop’s report on the oiler, put the bar tip about 8” from a solid surface and rev. You see an oil spray line.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

A saw should literally pull itself through the wood. If you have to add pressure to make it go there is a chain problem.
first, dull chain. 2nd, rakers need to be filed to the correct height.
a freshly sharpened chain with rakers not being filed properly will not pull itself.
there are numerous threads on how to maintain your chains.

 

[psc1947]

Definitely look at your chain sharpness. It’s the replacement for displacement!

To check on your saw shop’s report on the oiler, put the bar tip about 8” from a solid surface and rev. You see an oil spray line.

"You see an oil spray line." I've always used the toe of my boot

 

[John Lyngdal]

There is nothing magical about bar oil, over the decades I've only used "generic" bar oil and have no complaints.
Is the wood clean, or could there be dirt on it that could quickly dull the chain?
If your leaning into the saw that hard, your chain is dull, improperly ground, and/or the rakers are too high.
Saws work best when they self-feed. If the wood is clean, purchase a new Stihl RS chain and put it on your 361 and make a few cuts letting the saw do the work. This would be a good baseline to determine the speed your saw should cut at. If it still seems too slow, try it with 3/8-8 rim on the saw. and see if that helps. It's all about balancing the chainsaw engine power with chain speed and raker depth for the wood you are cutting.

 

[Mad Professor]

Not a 361 but a 036. My Stihl RS chains last and cut until the cutters are so worn one breaks off.

It is about that time now, I'll sharpen it and take a picture. Then the chain goes on the nail hanger as as a stumper chain, saw gets a new 7T rim and bearing some grease.........

No need for 32" bar on the 461, that will do 4' trees fine with the 25". I did that ~40 years ago with a homie XL and 24" bar. Got many cords out of that ash.

 

[northmanlogging]

Sharp chain, and let it do the work for you, all using the dogs for bucking is going to do is wear you and the saw out.
Use good oil both in the fuel, and for the bar/chain
Stick with the 25" bar to cut the 30" logs, just reach over the log and cut up the far side before finishing the near side
Oregon products are junk, bars chains, files, all cheap metal or poorly heat treated, especially the chains.
(note: the dogs are handy for places where gravity isn't helping you, such as timber falling, and some limbing type stuff, otherwise good sharp chains will do wayyyy more for you then brute strength, save that for carrying the damned saw)

 

[northmanlogging]

Not a 361 but a 036. My Stihl RS chains last and cut until the cutters are so worn one breaks off.

It is about that time now, I'll sharpen it and take a picture. Then the chain goes on the nail hanger as as a stumper chain, saw gets a new 7T rim and bearing some grease.........

No need for 32" bar on the 461, that will do 4' trees fine with the 25". I did that ~40 years ago with a homie XL and 24" bar. Got many cords out of that ash.

So I'm not the only tight wad that runs em until the teeth break? then one more for luck lol. Once had one strip the teeth off one whole side of the chain, and half the other side... it was still cutting straight somehow? not fast but straight

 

[northmanlogging]

One last bit, Chain tension is important, with weight on the tip, or lifting up on the tip of the bar, tighten until the chain just touches in the middle. Too tight you over heat stuff especially the tip.
Too loose you "slap" just behind the tip and create a low spot, as well as higher risk of throwing the chain.
with just finger strength you should be able to just pull the drive teeth clear of the bar rails, but it will snap back to snug when you let go.

 

[Bill G]

.....another response by a tech who actually watched me cut a piece of oak was that I was digging the dog in hard and putting way to much pressure on the saw. Which I will admit I may do that especially when cutting 24" ash I'll put my thigh under it and put more pressure on it to get through it quicker........

First just like many have said a sharp chain is the upmost important thing. After reading your post the next piece of advice. TAKE THE DOGS OFF. If you are bucking wood and have to pressure the saw from underneath with your thigh that is a huge indicator of a dull chain. Get a sharp chain, take the dogs off, and learn how to let the saw do the work.

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

If you are having to push the saw that hard, you have already found your problem. The saw should not be pushed, it should cut under its own weight.

 

[Okie]

Them saw tech guys are not really telling you the truth. They want to keep selling you parts/pieces and labor.
They want your money and do not want to hurt your feelings.

You are forcing a dull chain to work by putting too much pressure on the saw. (by using the saw dogs and riding/forcing the cut) A sharp chin will pull itself through the cut. I mainly use the saw dogs for when the saw is cutting standing timber, not wood that is already downed..

Get a new bar and chain and then take the saw dogs off your saw and you will be Ok.

 

[TRTermite]

The dawgs do keep a bit of space between the wood and the muffler and that allows the exhaust to get clear and lets the saw run cooler (Saw will Last Longer).

 

[chaddemler1980]

Bought new stihl bar and 2 new stihl yellow chains for the 361.... went and made couple cuts in dried 20" oak. The new chains helped and I did try to not put much pressure on the saw and let it do the work... worked fine. 4th cut in I found myself wishing it was faster and I went back to using thigh pressure..... yup one cut in and I see browning on the bottom of the guide bar. I guess I need to let the saw do its thing and stop trying to make it cut faster than it's supposed to. It's a saw not a laser lol.
Wonder how much faster a hydraulic saw really is??? Might be time to think of fabricating up a hydraulic unit for the skidsteer?
If it takes a minute to get through a 20" oak wonder if hydraulic could do it in half the time or even less?

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

Bought new stihl bar and 2 new stihl yellow chains for the 361.... went and made couple cuts in dried 20" oak. The new chains helped and I did try to not put much pressure on the saw and let it do the work... worked fine. 4th cut in I found myself wishing it was faster and I went back to using thigh pressure..... yup one cut in and I see browning on the bottom of the guide bar. I guess I need to let the saw do its thing and stop trying to make it cut faster than it's supposed to. It's a saw not a laser lol.
Wonder how much faster a hydraulic saw really is??? Might be time to think of fabricating up a hydraulic unit for the skidsteer?
If it takes a minute to get through a 20" oak wonder if hydraulic could do it in half the time or even less?

New chain is not as sharp as you can get the chain with a file for one, and usually the rakers are too high. Take a couple swipes off the rakers with a file. Is your wood dirty?

 

[HarleyT]

Pics...

Pic of the bar, chain, and drive sprocket.

 

[PV Hiker]

Bought new stihl bar and 2 new stihl yellow chains for the 361.... went and made couple cuts in dried 20" oak. The new chains helped and I did try to not put much pressure on the saw and let it do the work... worked fine. 4th cut in I found myself wishing it was faster and I went back to using thigh pressure..... yup one cut in and I see browning on the bottom of the guide bar. I guess I need to let the saw do its thing and stop trying to make it cut faster than it's supposed to.

No matter what saw you have if you push it you are not doing your equipment any favors. It is not just the bar and chain that can be damaged it is the power head it's self that you can kill. Then you'll have no saw and all the time in the world. If you want to cut faster get a bigger cc chainsaw, then that is not fast enough, go bigger to save how many seconds or minutes of cutting are you willing to pay for?

Use a crosscut saw for a week then any chainsaw will feel smoking fast!

"...I guess I need to let the saw do its thing and stop trying to make it cut faster than it's supposed to."...

Very much sound advice!

 

[tfp]

I don't think it's ever taken me a minute to cut through any tree here living or dead.

If you have a hydraulic saw running the same chain that gets dull in your conditions on the fourth cut you'll be back in the same position you were with a normal saw. With one of your brand new chains, try cutting from the thin end of the log back towards the stump. There might be a lot of dirt in the bark where you are cutting because it's the end closest to the ground. If that's a common theme, you could try semi-chisel chain so it lasts a few more cuts.

A lot of tools require you to become a master sharpener. Chainsaws are one of those tools. Running a chainsaw with a dull chain and not stopping to sharpen is going to damage the saw eventually, whereas those saws should almost last you a lifetime.