Newby needs help with bar damage and bar/chain choices

[Okie]

4 cuts on a 20 inch oak log and the NEW STIHL chain is getting dull.

Post up some pictures of your new chain and the chain after 4 cuts.

Show close ups of the cutters at different angles.

I cut 20 inch dried oak quite often and do not have dull chain issues.

You need to eventually learn how to look at the cutters and how to manually touch up a chain by hand filing. At least you are starting to pay attention.

But you say the other saw you use is A-ok with no cutting issues??????????

Also post up some pictures of your old bar and your new bar. You say your new bar is starting to show some discolor wear already due to you forcing the cut.

 

[chaddemler1980]

Wood is clean, been sitting in yard for 14 months as covered with Tin on top. I also stop my cuts about 6 inches from bottom... cut the 4' section, roll it with skid steer, spray off the dirt with the hose and finish the cuts.

 

[chaddemler1980]

4 cuts on a 20 inch oak log and the NEW STIHL chain is getting dull.

Post up some pictures of your new chain and the chain after 4 cuts.

Show close ups of the cutters at different angles.

I cut 20 inch dried oak quite often and do not have dull chain issues.

You need to eventually learn how to look at the cutters and how to manually touch up a chain by hand filing. At least you are starting to pay attention.

But you say the other saw you use is A-ok with no cutting issues??????????

Also post up some pictures of your old bar and your new bar. You say your new bar is starting to show some discolor wear already due to you forcing the cut.

That bar went back to the store today and warranted out for another one. Just finished cutting up some more oak and maple... a good 30 cuts. Didn't use my thigh, just let the saw work.... did fine. Checked shavings often and it was throwing nice long shavings out. Below is a pic after the cutting.... no cleaning, started with new bar and the 2nd new chain today.

 

[chaddemler1980]

No matter what saw you have if you push it you are not doing your equipment any favors. It is not just the bar and chain that can be damaged it is the power head it's self that you can kill. Then you'll have no saw and all the time in the world. If you want to cut faster get a bigger cc chainsaw, then that is not fast enough, go bigger to save how many seconds or minutes of cutting are you willing to pay for?

Use a crosscut saw for a week then any chainsaw will feel smoking fast!

"...I guess I need to let the saw do its thing and stop trying to make it cut faster than it's supposed to."...

Very much sound advice!

True that, by hand would suck so much.

 

[chaddemler1980]

Pics...

Pic of the bar, chain, and drive sprocket.

Posted

 

[chaddemler1980]

During my exchange of bars today I met another old timer in the store and got to talking to him and explained my issue. He gave a guess that as I use my thigh to put alot of force to get through it quicker I may be putting stress horizontally on the bar and actually bending or twisting it towards the middle. It was just a guess but I hadn't thought of it...not sure if I buy it but today went fine with the saw ZERO issues and didn't use any leg force. I used to bind the chain up pushing so hard... but like I said no issues today other than wishing it was faster. The 461 is faster but alot heavier to whip around after alot of cuts.

So I got the 361 and 461. Any opinions on the fastest/faster off the shelf saw for 20" diameter logs? "No mods, and under 80cc"

 

[NorthernMaverick]

Bought new stihl bar and 2 new stihl yellow chains for the 361.... went and made couple cuts in dried 20" oak. The new chains helped and I did try to not put much pressure on the saw and let it do the work... worked fine. 4th cut in I found myself wishing it was faster and I went back to using thigh pressure..... yup one cut in and I see browning on the bottom of the guide bar. I guess I need to let the saw do its thing and stop trying to make it cut faster than it's supposed to. It's a saw not a laser lol.
Wonder how much faster a hydraulic saw really is??? Might be time to think of fabricating up a hydraulic unit for the skidsteer?
If it takes a minute to get through a 20" oak wonder if hydraulic could do it in half the time or even less?

If it takes 1 minute something is off. A stock 65 - 70 cc saw with a 20" bar should be shearing ash rounds well under 30 sec, but then I only run Husqvarna. Lol. More like 20 - 25 if that chain u
is where it should be. Full chisel, with a good edge, a proper rakers is where it's at. Don't take the dogs off. They keep the muffler, and more importantly the case off any knots and the log itself.

 

[camel2019]

If it takes 1 minute something is off. A stock 65 - 70 cc saw with a 20" bar should be shearing ash rounds well under 30 sec, but then I only run Husqvarna. Lol. More like 20 - 25 if that chain u
is where it should be. Full chisel, with a good edge, a proper rakers is where it's at. Don't take the dogs off. They keep the muffler, and more importantly the case off any knots and the log itself.

In hardwood full chisel don’t last semi chisel is what you want. Properly sharpen the chains and file the rakers for hardwood and let the saw do the work. I have never had a problem with Oregon bars or chain or cheap bar oil.

 

[NorthernMaverick]

Full chisel will always out cut semi chisel speed wise, no matter what. Now full will dull faster in dirty wood, but that just means you sharpen more. If you want top speed, ditch safety chain, (and ditch Oregon btw, their chain is junk), learn how to file well and often, and let the chips fly. Huskys new x cut chain, or Stihl chain are the best imo.

 

[Raatler]

Can I ask why you had to warranty the new bar out?
You mentioned getting a yellow bar, that's fine but you have a green chain. Hence that extra hump on top of the drive teeth that ride with the rakers on your cutting teeth.
If the chain box says RS3 (Rapid Super aka Full Chisel) or RM3 (Rapid Micro aka Semi Chisel) than it's a green chain. the 3 after the RS or RM denotes a green chain with the little humpy thing on the drive tooth. If you have a 33 RS 72 than that's a yellow chain for a 20" bar.
The other, simpler way of telling is if the box has a green square in the lower left corner than it's green. If it has a yellow box then it's yellow. Stihl likes to keep some things simple!
You can run a green chain on a yellow bar, but not sure of why you'd want too.

 

[northmanlogging]

Bought new stihl bar and 2 new stihl yellow chains for the 361.... went and made couple cuts in dried 20" oak. The new chains helped and I did try to not put much pressure on the saw and let it do the work... worked fine. 4th cut in I found myself wishing it was faster and I went back to using thigh pressure..... yup one cut in and I see browning on the bottom of the guide bar. I guess I need to let the saw do its thing and stop trying to make it cut faster than it's supposed to. It's a saw not a laser lol.
Wonder how much faster a hydraulic saw really is??? Might be time to think of fabricating up a hydraulic unit for the skidsteer?
If it takes a minute to get through a 20" oak wonder if hydraulic could do it in half the time or even less?

Hydraulic saws, i.e. processors use a much bigger chain 5/8-3/4" pitch? I think? vs 3/8 or .404 us measly humans use, makes a world of difference when you have more torque then chain speed, they will run a much different part as well the term Hell for Stout comes to mind lol. They do cut pretty good, regardless of how sharp the chain is lol.

If the bar is changing colors off one cut, sounds like yer either reallllly leaning on the damned thing, or your bar oiler isn't putting out enough oil.
FYI all saw techs are not the same, some are just hill billies that can file a chain and swap parts until its "cured" others actually take a couple few trips to the Stihl Factories and get real honest training, these are the guys that can diagnose a saw, and have it repaired before you leave the shop.

 

[northmanlogging]

During my exchange of bars today I met another old timer in the store and got to talking to him and explained my issue. He gave a guess that as I use my thigh to put alot of force to get through it quicker I may be putting stress horizontally on the bar and actually bending or twisting it towards the middle. It was just a guess but I hadn't thought of it...not sure if I buy it but today went fine with the saw ZERO issues and didn't use any leg force. I used to bind the chain up pushing so hard... but like I said no issues today other than wishing it was faster. The 461 is faster but alot heavier to whip around after alot of cuts.

So I got the 361 and 461. Any opinions on the fastest/faster off the shelf saw for 20" diameter logs? "No mods, and under 80cc"

500i or the MS400 are both skookum choochers, but spendy new (and unavailable anywhere near me... grr) but they don't cut all that much faster then a 461, you will still have time to think about whats for lunch, why terry is a jerk, why is the sky blue, will billy ever pay me, should I apologize to jimmy for beating the S out of him in middle school... etc etc etc (Characters are all Fictional...)

 

[Woodslasher]

That bar went back to the store today and warranted out for another one. Just finished cutting up some more oak and maple... a good 30 cuts. Didn't use my thigh, just let the saw work.... did fine. Checked shavings often and it was throwing nice long shavings out. Below is a pic after the cutting.... no cleaning, started with new bar and the 2nd new chain today.

Chain's getting dull, give it a few licks with a file and check your raker height while you're at it.

 

[chaddemler1980]

Not sure what yellow bar means.... mine is stihl gray colored as seen in the pics. As for the chain my box had a YELLOW square... I specifically asked for a NON safety chain. So I don't know if a jerk returned a green chain in yellow box or what but I'll be sure to check the chain in the box next time. I'll have to pick up a rake guage next time I go in to ensure I'm checking the rakes... I did pickup a stihl manual sharpener.... haven't opened it yet, it might even have a rake guage in it. Anyway how often do you find yourself sharpening the chain or giving it a touch up while on the saw? I didn't sharpen it once yesterday during my 30 cuts and I couldn't really tell the difference...but that wood was all nice straight dry stuff up off the ground.

 

[chaddemler1980]

Can I ask why you had to warranty the new bar out?
You mentioned getting a yellow bar, that's fine but you have a green chain. Hence that extra hump on top of the drive teeth that ride with the rakers on your cutting teeth.
If the chain box says RS3 (Rapid Super aka Full Chisel) or RM3 (Rapid Micro aka Semi Chisel) than it's a green chain. the 3 after the RS or RM denotes a green chain with the little humpy thing on the drive tooth. If you have a 33 RS 72 than that's a yellow chain for a 20" bar.
The other, simpler way of telling is if the box has a green square in the lower left corner than it's green. If it has a yellow box then it's yellow. Stihl likes to keep some things simple!
You can run a green chain on a yellow bar, but not sure of why you'd want too.

I got a browning spot on the bar as in it was getting burned up in that 2 inch area, so I just exchanged it.

 

[Squidward]

I unfortunately don't have time to read all comments.... At work, taking quick break.
So at risk of repeating what you may have heard already:

(1) Dirt is often the culprit, and dirt can be sneaky, even if you are cutting "clean wood. " So be careful not to go past the bottom of the cut and hit dirt, if the log is on the ground. Use a cant hook or just elbow grease or whatever, a lever, to flip log over. At least that's what I do after dulling a few chains.
Also, does the bark itself on what you are cutting maybe have some embedded dirt? Ash, for example, has bark that can get dirt embedded especially if it is felled on moist ground.

(2) I find that saws don't throw as much oil as they did when I was first starting to use them (I'm 59). Some Stihl techs seem to agree, and say that the EPA made it more stringent about oil getting on the ground and in the groundwater.

(3) You're in Wisconsin, I see. Is it cold up there? Maybe cold enough to go with thinner winter weight oil? Rule of thumb for me, I use winter weight when I'm sawing in 30s-low 40s or colder. Blue bottle, Stihl for winter, orange for spring-summer-warmer fall days. I've only used Stihl bar oil, though I now have a couple of Echos.

Good luck. Don't mean to be Captain Obvious if these points were already discussed. Just had to respond quickly and get back to my day job. .

 

[Husky77]

Without seeing it I would say it's down to learning how to sharpen a chain and set every raker. Then turn your oil pump up full and makes sure you have oil coming out and leaving a tell tale line so you know its getting oil. Let the chain cut you shouldn't have to put pressure on it. Your never too old to learn, do it safely