Older blue Homelite Super XL AO with bar/chain overheating. Not sure what to do

[MOhunter]

Hello folks. My dad's got an old blue Homelite Super XL/AO, S/N 31562715. The thing is like a tank; you just can't kill it. But he was having trouble getting the chain tight and asked me to look at it. After a looong search I put a new chain on it (16in bar, Oregon D60 chain--pretty sure that's right) and started it up. The bar and chain get hot! Really hot. really fast. I pulled off the cover and when pumped, the bar oiler pumps oil out. not sure functionality of automatic oiler when not pumped, but I think it's working since a 'little' bit of oil is splattered under the chain when running on a bench. So what do I do and where do I start? My questions are:

1. Do we know if I've got the right chain on it?
2. The bar itself is original and has no sprocket in the front end. Dad said a long time ago they didn't have those. So...keep or replace with a sprocketed bar since it's old anyway?
3. I'm not sure if the chain is too tight in the bar (.050 chain) or if the aluminum guides are rubbing the chain as it runs in/out of the drive sprocket, but I don't think so.
4. What if anything do I do to ensure the auto oiler is working etc? (But I'm pretty sure that's not the problem)
5. Where can I guy get a parts schematic and/or other useful info?

I'm very good mechanically, but stumped on this. Much appreciated on the knowledge the forum gives me! Thanks

 

[Old2stroke]

When you mount a chain on a bar, the tension should be set just tight enough so that the chain doesn't sag off the bottom of the bar. Set the tension with the tip of the bar held up. After setting, use a rag or glove and spool the chain around the bar manually. The chain should move freely with no funny sounds. Nothing wrong with a hardnose bar but if you buy a sprocket nose one, the pitch and gauge has to match the chain.
Are you sure the chain pitch matches the drive sprocket and the gauge matches the hardnose bar? Did you clean ALL the gunge out of the bar groove and oil holes? How worn is the drive sprocket? If there are deep grooves worn in the sprocket, you CANNOT use it with a new chain, the pitch will no longer match and the chain will quickly be destroyed.

 

[MOhunter]

Hey thanks for the reply Old2stroke. I've done everything in your first paragraph. The Oregon D60 chain I have on it specifically states it will match a Super XL AO. I should have bought the bar/chain combo set.

BUT....chain pitch matching the drive sprocket. I have no way of knowing other than the chain package says it will fit. I can't find specifications on the bar for this thing. Drive sprocket? I'm glad you mentioned that. I suspect that may be the ultimate suspect since dad could never keep it tight. I'll take a look at that the next few days and let you know. If it is, I'm wondering how hard it would be to get parts for the old girl.

 

[Mad Professor]

Hey thanks for the reply Old2stroke. I've done everything in your first paragraph. The Oregon D60 chain I have on it specifically states it will match a Super XL AO. I should have bought the bar/chain combo set.

BUT....chain pitch matching the drive sprocket. I have no way of knowing other than the chain package says it will fit. I can't find specifications on the bar for this thing. Drive sprocket? I'm glad you mentioned that. I suspect that may be the ultimate suspect since dad could never keep it tight. I'll take a look at that the next few days and let you know. If it is, I'm wondering how hard it would be to get parts for the old girl.

Post a picture of the drive sprocket. Worn sprocket can cause problems.

Also be sure groove and oil holes in bar are clean.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Measure the old and new chains. Measure center-to-center across three rivets and divide by two. You should get the same number for both chains. It is likely a 3/8 chain but your measurement will be closer to .365. Post a picture of the drive sprocket. On hardnose bars, I like just a slight amount of sag under the bar - like 1/16", just to be sure it's not too tight. You are using real bar oil, right?

 

[MOhunter]

Post a picture of the drive sprocket. Worn sprocket can cause problems.

Also be sure groove and oil holes in bar are clean.

Picture...Yes! I'll do that soon. Good idea

 

[MOhunter]

Measure the old and new chains. Measure center-to-center across three rivets and divide by two. You should get the same number for both chains. It is likely a 3/8 chain but your measurement will be closer to .365. Post a picture of the drive sprocket. On hardnose bars, I like just a slight amount of sag under the bar - like 1/16", just to be sure it's not too tight. You are using real bar oil, right?

I'm sure the old/new are the same. I bought an Oregon D60 and both it and the old chain had '72' on the bottom side of the chain. So IF the old chain was correct, this one should be also. I can't trust the past peeps who worked on this that much. 1/16th. Okay. Yes summer weight bar and chain oil.

 

[MOhunter]

Picture...Yes! I'll do that soon. Good idea

Okay here's a picture of the drive sprocket. It has a keeper around it to ensure the chain stays in place. Teeth look good to me. Thoughts and inputs?

 

[pioneerguy600]

Okay here's a picture of the drive sprocket. It has a keeper around it to ensure the chain stays in place. Teeth look good to me. Thoughts and inputs?View attachment 1200913

That drive sprocket has seen a lot of miles and is badly worn down between where the chain drivers make contact, when worn like these are it changes the pitch of the drive creating a lot of friction that generates heat. They are cheap replacement wear items on all chainsaws. I have seen worse ones but running a new chain on a worn sprocket will ruin a new chain`s drivers quickly.

 

[MOhunter]

That drive sprocket has seen a lot of miles and is badly worn down between where the chain drivers make contact, when worn like these are it changes the pitch of the drive creating a lot of friction that generates heat. They are cheap replacement wear items on all chainsaws. I have seen worse ones but running a new chain on a worn sprocket will ruin a new chain`s drivers quickly.

Really?? No kidding? Wow. Guess I don't know what I'm looking at then. Okay, new drive sprocket needed. Can these be found readily online for an old saw? And I was wondering. I'm not sure how much torque the nut should be to hold that drive sprocket on. It was really easy to remove but not sure how much to tighten it when I replace it. Thanks for the info.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Chain sprockets in general are often neglected /overlooked wear n tear items, for around $7.00 @ I myself change them out when I can see where the chain`s tiestraps have hammered an indent into the outer diameter of the sprocket but more important area is the drive flats down below the rim. For me up here in Canada it is no problem to find new sprockets not certain about your location, usually eBay or House of Homelite has most wear items, I torque the nuts to 150 inch lbs and they stay on the saw for me ,click on the link for much more information on your saw,https://www.leonschainsawpartsandre...r_xl-15_xl-12_xl-15_xl-500_service_manual.pdf

 

[MOhunter]

Chain sprockets in general are often neglected /overlooked wear n tear items, for around $7.00 @ I myself change them out when I can see where the chain`s tiestraps have hammered an indent into the outer diameter of the sprocket but more important area is the drive flats down below the rim. For me up here in Canada it is no problem to find new sprockets not certain about your location, usually eBay or House of Homelite has most wear items, I torque the nuts to 150 inch lbs and they stay on the saw for me ,click on the link for much more information on your saw,https://www.leonschainsawpartsandre...r_xl-15_xl-12_xl-15_xl-500_service_manual.pdf

THANK YOU for the link to the service manual. In the pics above, I'm wondering why the drive sprocket assy looks so much different than what's in the book. Leon's site is not very user friendly and I'm not sure the exact part number I need. I'm heading to a saw shop in a while to see what they have. It's a Stihl shop....dunno if they would clue me on or not.

 

[MOhunter]

THANK YOU for the link to the service manual. In the pics above, I'm wondering why the drive sprocket assy looks so much different than what's in the book. Leon's site is not very user friendly and I'm not sure the exact part number I need. I'm heading to a saw shop in a while to see what they have. It's a Stihl shop....dunno if they would clue me on or not.

I'm guessing this one, but not having an exact part number leaves me wondering. And it looks so different than what's on it now.

https://www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/store/p6072/NOS_Homelite_Super_XL,_XL-12_Chainsaw_3/8"_Spur_Sprocket_%26_Bearing_A-69633.html#/

 

[pioneerguy600]

That is a spur sprocket but your saw has a rim drive sprocket on it now. Many of the older Homelites had spur sprockets from the factory, can`t say if your particular saw did, many were converted afterward by owners as it is cheaper to replace a rim drive rather than the whole clutch drum like the spur sprocket /clutch drum is made up.

 

[pioneerguy600]

From your drive sprocket pic you have a Oregon conversion clutch drum with a power mak rim drive conversion setup, Oregon would have the replacement rim drive sprocket for that drum. Looking in my Oregon catalogue it says the Homelite SXL would have a 7 spline drive clutch hub requiring a SD7 rim drive for a 3/8" chain setup.

 

[MOhunter]

Chain sprockets in general are often neglected /overlooked wear n tear items, for around $7.00 @ I myself change them out when I can see where the chain`s tiestraps have hammered an indent into the outer diameter of the sprocket but more important area is the drive flats down below the rim. For me up here in Canada it is no problem to find new sprockets not certain about your location, usually eBay or House of Homelite has most wear items, I torque the nuts to 150 inch lbs and they stay on the saw for me ,click on the link for much more information on your saw,https://www.leonschainsawpartsandre...r_xl-15_xl-12_xl-15_xl-500_service_manual.pdf

Thanks for the inputs PioneerGuy600 (and all)

Sooo....upon looking at the item in the first picture I posted, I realized I was looking at the wrong thing. It has a slip-clutch type system on this sprocket which slides slightly left/right on the shaft that's in the second picture. I was looking at the teeth in the second pic. After seeing what this sprocket piece is supposed to look like, I now know and agree that the drive sprocket was slipping. And the inner sprocket points were worn when looking at it from the side. From my take on it, it slips but still moves the chain forward appearing to run good, but is heating it up. And since it still throws the chain around the bar, it makes you start to believe it's an oiling issue or the chain is rubbing the bar. NEW Sprocket ordered! But i'm still going to take another look at the oiler system. I know it works when I pump it.

But when pumping it and the cover/bar is off it doesn't 'shoot' out, but still comes out. I'm assuming that's a normal flow?

And if I start it without a bar/chain on it, if oil comes out then I can assume it's automatically oiling correctly?

Thanks again all

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thanks for the inputs PioneerGuy600 (and all)

Sooo....upon looking at the item in the first picture I posted, I realized I was looking at the wrong thing. It has a slip-clutch type system on this sprocket which slides slightly left/right on the shaft that's in the second picture. I was looking at the teeth in the second pic. After seeing what this sprocket piece is supposed to look like, I now know and agree that the drive sprocket was slipping. And the inner sprocket points were worn when looking at it from the side. From my take on it, it slips but still moves the chain forward appearing to run good, but is heating it up. And since it still throws the chain around the bar, it makes you start to believe it's an oiling issue or the chain is rubbing the bar. NEW Sprocket ordered! But i'm still going to take another look at the oiler system. I know it works when I pump it.

But when pumping it and the cover/bar is off it doesn't 'shoot' out, but still comes out. I'm assuming that's a normal flow?

And if I start it without a bar/chain on it, if oil comes out then I can assume it's automatically oiling correctly?

Thanks again all

The automatic oiler will move oil out to the bar pad, it will be sort of a drool,it will not shoot out and is not under pressure, the automatic pumps are a displacement type. The manual pump should deliver more oil than the automatic but will still not be a gusher, a shiny sheen of oil on the drivers and bottom of the chain tie straps is enough to lube the chain and bar. The oil hole to the bar must be open and clean as well as the bar groove/channel. If the chain drive channel gets loaded up with wood debris and old oil it can cause extra friction resulting in heat buildup in the bar. On many old bars I have found debris compacted so hard one would think it was the actual bottom but was not. It took a sharp ground off hacksaw blade to get that hardened debris out,required a good bit of scraping. The chain drivers beat that crud down into the channel causing the drivers to drag on the channel bottom, check your bar closely for this as well as for proper oil delivery.

 

[MOhunter]

The automatic oiler will move oil out to the bar pad, it will be sort of a drool,it will not shoot out and is not under pressure, the automatic pumps are a displacement type. The manual pump should deliver more oil than the automatic but will still not be a gusher, a shiny sheen of oil on the drivers and bottom of the chain tie straps is enough to lube the chain and bar. The oil hole to the bar must be open and clean as well as the bar groove/channel. If the chain drive channel gets loaded up with wood debris and old oil it can cause extra friction resulting in heat buildup in the bar. On many old bars I have found debris compacted so hard one would think it was the actual bottom but was not. It took a sharp ground off hacksaw blade to get that hardened debris out,required a good bit of scraping. The chain drivers beat that crud down into the channel causing the drivers to drag on the channel bottom, check your bar closely for this as well as for proper oil delivery.

Got it. I will! Yeah, I think you described it best as sort of a drool. I plan on starting it without the bar/chain and watching it closely at various RPMs to see how the oiler is working. I know the manual pump works, so no problem there. I'm glad you mentioned the old hacksaw blade. I was wondering how I was going to get in the bar grooves.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Got it. I will! Yeah, I think you described it best as sort of a drool. I plan on starting it without the bar/chain and watching it closely at various RPMs to see how the oiler is working. I know the manual pump works, so no problem there. I'm glad you mentioned the old hacksaw blade. I was wondering how I was going to get in the bar grooves.

You know to not start it with the clutch drum off, right?

 

[MOhunter]

You know to not start it with the clutch drum off, right?

Yes. Thanks for the reminder