Osage Orange limbs and trees dropped

[Joe Kuhn]

The neighbor down the street is going to sell his house and asked me to help clear his Osage Orange limbs that have killed about half of the grass in his back yard.

His son purchased a pole saw and we spent our first weekend dropping limbs we could reach and dragging them to the curb for the township to pick up. This month we're working on his 2 Osage Orange trees that need to go. They were clearly not tall enough to touch the house when dropped.

The first one has quite a bit of lean to it and some rotted trunk as you can see below. The one to the left of this first tree needed to stay (hidden by branches).



I chose to notch it relatively high and short. Short because of all the rotted trunk. (You can see the second one targeted to go to the right of the one with the notch, but again, just the part to the right that is leaning towards his house needed to drop.)



The hinge was pretty thick on this first one, so there was more falling work to do to get the whole trunk on the ground. It was stuck on the stump with a thick hinge so I whittled away at it, but it finally was loose so I could then go to the branches. One thing I learned about branches is when a tree is on the ground, you have to reverse how you do them or your saw can get bound up and then you've got trouble.

For branches when a tree is on the ground, instead of cutting below and then on top as you would when a tree is standing, you reverse the procedure and cut above and then below. Then everything falls away and you aren't standing there with your saw's bar stuck in the branch. Duh. It's sort of a bridge (H) type of pressure situation rather than a tee (T) when a tree is standing. When a tree is on the ground, you make a short cut on top and then cut through from below because of the pressure on the middle & top side of the branch. This reminds me of my mother's clothes line I used to see when I was a boy.

Here's another view of that first tree's wedge. Get out of the way!



The second tree was wedged closer to the ground and I took a second pass at it to get an even shorter stump. It had a much thinner hinge that broke completely through and was easier to get to the ground.



The rest of the story is just a lot of work, but I did learn some things about my saw as well. Here you can see the gold dust I was able to produce with it. I like this saw. It has a nice bark to it and goes through this hard wood fast. I'm sure it helps to have a new bar and chain.



I ran it out of gas and after filling, it didn't want to start. I had to turn out (richen) the Low end screw for some reason. Then it started, but didn't want to cut well at the high end, so the high end screw had to be turned out as well. I didn't turn either screw much, just about a quarter of a turn. I went the wrong way on the High end screw at first, but that was pretty obvious when it ran even worse, so I just reversed it and got back to cutting pretty quickly. I might have it all backwards in terms of how I turned the screws, but it doesn't matter. If it's worse, you go the other way.

I'm certainly open to feedback on my whole story. I'm learning a lot from this and enjoy hearing from you guys with the experience.

 

[clint53]

That's some very hard wood.
Janka Hardness
Osage Orange - 2620
Shagbark Hickory - 1800
Black Locust - 1700
White Oak - 1350
Silver Maple - 700

 

[Joe Kuhn]

That's some very hard wood...

Yes, and heavy. I had to cut the trunk into foot long pieces to be able to lift them into my wheelbarrow.

 

[clint53]

Yes, and heavy. I had to cut the trunk into foot long pieces to be able to lift them into my wheelbarrow.

Yes. Very heavy. Not to mention the thorns.
I'm watching for some now to try a axe handle from it.
I've only cut some twice in 44 years of doing firewood.
Clint

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Yes. Very heavy.
I'm watching for some now to try a axe handle from it.
I've only cut some twice in 44 years of doing firewood.
Clint

I can send you a piece. What diameter & length do you need? I bet I have the size you need in the firewood pile on my back patio. We live on the same tree line as my neighbor and we've been trimming ours as well.



I'll tell you a story about these trees. They're more commonly known as hedge apple and horse apple trees and are fairly common here in Illinois. When we were kids, my brother was riding home from football practice on his bicycle one day. He came upon a hedge apple on the road and decided to smash it, but instead was pitched into the ditch on his head. Good thing he had his football helmet on! Hedge apples are hard as rocks.



And you best pick them up before mowing. Neighbor bent the main shaft on his push mower by cutting them up into bits as he mowed. Hah!

 

[clint53]

I can send you a piece. What diameter & length do you need? I bet I have the size you need in the firewood pile on my back patio. We live on the same tree line as my neighbor and we've been trimming ours as well.

View attachment 857875

I'll tell you a story about these trees. They're more commonly known as hedge apple trees and are fairly common here in Illinois. When we were kids, my brother was riding home from football practice on his bicycle one day. He came upon a hedge apple along the side of the road and decided to go over it, but instead was pitched into the ditch on his head. Good thing he had his football helmet on!

View attachment 857884

And you best pick them up before mowing. Neighbor bent the main shaft on his push mower by cutting them up into bits. Hah!

Thanks very much for the offer. I know a couple of farms that have them in the hedges. All I gotta do is ask for them.
I hate dealing with the thorns.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Yes, got a few cuts from the thorns and every time I work with them, I have to pull the thorns out of the bottoms of my shoes when done. Stay well and wear gloves.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Honesty you’re kind of an idiot and you should have had a professional doing this work. I’m sure others will chime in here. Someone with the right tools would have done this job properly. Running out of fuel mid-cut could be extremely dangerous. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and refrain from cutting down trees for other people. If something did happen and you got hurt, it could be really bad.

How about you tell me how it should have been done? And I'd appreciate it if you'd edit out the name calling.

And to clarify, I didn't run out of fuel in the middle of a main cut. I ran out of fuel cutting limbs after dropping them both safely. Nobody was hurt. Not even close. Everything went as planned except for getting my bar stuck in a branch after dropping the tree.

 

[DannytreeLLC]

Well first off you half assed the notch. You used the wrong size saw. Also, you cut too high. The angle the notch was taken was improper. That tree is most likely going to die, you should have just removed the whole thing. People that do things make the arborism profession look bad, like any guy could just get a chainsaw and throw it in his pickup and be one of us. It really irks me to see this kind of stuff even if it was just a side job for a neighbor. One wrong cut and you would be figuring out how to pay your medical bills because you don’t have insurance or WC

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Well first off you half assed the notch. You used the wrong size saw. Also, you cut too high. The angle the notch was taken was improper. That tree is most likely going to die, you should have just removed the whole thing. People that do things make the arborism profession look bad, like any guy could just get a chainsaw and throw it in his pickup and be one of us. It really irks me to see this kind of stuff even if it was just a side job for a neighbor. One wrong cut and you would be figuring out how to pay your medical bills because you don’t have insurance or WC

Again, be specific. What sized saw would you have used? Where should the notch have been and what shape? You can take a snap shot of my picture and draw in the notch you would have cut. And explain why for the shape and height. I don't claim to be a professional and everyone knows that. I'm not hiding anything here, that's for sure. There's no reflection on your profession except in your mind. If it irks you so much then perhaps you should stay off the homeowner forum.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Explain to me how, in Illinois, this is an illegal tree job?

 

[DannytreeLLC]

Now you’re starting to grind my gears. You are not licensed, insured, or bonded. You have absolutely no clue what you are doing, and while it might be fun and games to you now, the moment you get hurt, hurt someone else, or damage something you can’t afford to replace- it won’t be so cute.

 

[Stonesforbrains]

My step-father has a very nice handmade Osage Orange long bow made by one of his friends. I don’t have a picture or I’d post it. I believe it was made 30 years ago. Very strong wood and very beautiful. I wish I had some Osage Orange growing on my property.

 

[JTM]

Now you’re starting to grind my gears. You are not licensed, insured, or bonded. You have absolutely no clue what you are doing, and while it might be fun and games to you now, the moment you get hurt, hurt someone else, or damage something you can’t afford to replace- it won’t be so cute.

Troll

 

[buzz sawyer]

The neighbor down the street is going to sell his house and asked me to help clear his Osage Orange limbs that have killed about half of the grass in his back yard.

His son purchased a pole saw and we spent our first weekend dropping limbs we could reach and dragging them to the curb for the township to pick up. This month we're working on his 2 Osage Orange trees that need to go. They were clearly not tall enough to touch the house when dropped.

The first one has quite a bit of lean to it and some rotted trunk as you can see below. The one to the left of this first tree needed to stay (hidden by branches).

View attachment 857846

I chose to notch it relatively high and short. Short because of all the rotted trunk. (You can see the second one targeted to go to the right of the one with the notch, but again, just the part to the right that is leaning towards his house needed to drop.)

View attachment 857847

The hinge was pretty thick on this first one, so there was more falling work to do to get the whole trunk on the ground. It was stuck on the stump with a thick hinge so I whittled away at it, but it finally was loose so I could then go to the branches. One thing I learned about branches is when a tree is on the ground, you have to reverse how you do them or your saw can get bound up and then you've got trouble.

For branches when a tree is on the ground, instead of cutting below and then on top as you would when a tree is standing, you reverse the procedure and cut above and then below. Then everything falls away and you aren't standing there with your saw's bar stuck in the branch. Duh. It's sort of a bridge (H) type of pressure situation rather than a tee (T) when a tree is standing. When a tree is on the ground, you make a short cut on top and then cut through from below because of the pressure on the middle & top side of the branch. This reminds me of my mother's clothes line I used to see when I was a boy.

Here's another view of that first tree's wedge. Get out of the way!

View attachment 857848

The second tree was wedged closer to the ground and I took a second pass at it to get an even shorter stump. It had a much thinner hinge that broke completely through and was easier to get to the ground.

View attachment 857850

The rest of the story is just a lot of work, but I did learn some things about my saw as well. Here you can see the gold dust I was able to produce with it. I like this saw. It has a nice bark to it and goes through this hard wood fast. I'm sure it helps to have a new bar and chain.

View attachment 857851

I ran it out of gas and after filling, it didn't want to start. I had to turn out (richen) the Low end screw for some reason. Then it started, but didn't want to cut well at the high end, so the high end screw had to be turned out as well. I didn't turn either screw much, just about a quarter of a turn. I went the wrong way on the High end screw at first, but that was pretty obvious when it ran even worse, so I just reversed it and got back to cutting pretty quickly. I might have it all backwards in terms of how I turned the screws, but it doesn't matter. If it's worse, you go the other way.

I'm certainly open to feedback on my whole story. I'm learning a lot from this and enjoy hearing from you guys with the experience.

Sorry you had to deal with some abusive posts. It happens here now and then. Without being there and seeing the whole picture, I would have made the notch wider and not as deep as the second notch. Hedge isn't prone to barber chair like Ash but that tree had too much lean for a simple notch and back cut. Maybe would have used a bore cut or wrapped a chain around the trunk to keep it from splitting. Looks like you had enough saw. Rather than fool with the carb when it wouldn't start, try letting the saw cool down a little. It could have been hot from cutting - as already said, Hedge is hard cutting. Make sure your chain is sharp. I made an axe handle out of it, also great wood for turning on a lathe. Also great firewood but it tends to pop a lot due to the oils in it. The same oils make it good for fence posts and outdoor wood.

 

[JTM]

If you end up with some relatively straight pieces several inches in diameter do a little research. You might find you have some nice staves for bow making.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

My step-father has a very nice handmade Osage Orange long bow made by one of his friends. I don’t have a picture or I’d post it. I believe it was made 30 years ago. Very strong wood and very beautiful. I wish I had some Osage Orange growing on my property.

Thanks for your note. How long would you estimate that bow to be?

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Troll

I suspected as much, but I believe everything happens for a reason. My other neighbor has a tree for me to do, but I'm probably going to say no. It's a straight fir, pretty tall for our area and close to the road and the house. They've taken some video to give me a preliminary look. Have not seen it yet. I'm prepared to say no, that's for sure. Probably will say no. Growing up on the farm has made me acutely aware of safety, particularly after witnessing my brothers and their near misses. One, as a little boy, kicked a tractor out of gear that was shut off and rode it down a hill and into an empty silo. Bumped his head on the steering wheel and cried for a while, but he was fine. A silo takes a lot more than a 3 foot wide hole to make it come down. Other brother didn't get the stiff clutch pushed in soon enough and drove a tractor into an upright gas tank, knocking it to the ground before he kicked in the shut off key to stop it. Gas didn't even leak. Both boys were really lucky. And then there's dad's story...

Perhaps I should have posted some pictures first and talked to you guys about this Osage Orange work before actually doing the job. Not sure guys would be willing to comment in that way, but I will consider it.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

Sorry you had to deal with some abusive posts. It happens here now and then. Without being there and seeing the whole picture, I would have made the notch wider and not as deep as the second notch. Hedge isn't prone to barber chair like Ash but that tree had too much lean for a simple notch and back cut. Maybe would have used a bore cut or wrapped a chain around the trunk to keep it from splitting. Looks like you had enough saw. Rather than fool with the carb when it wouldn't start, try letting the saw cool down a little. It could have been hot from cutting - as already said, Hedge is hard cutting. Make sure your chain is sharp. I made an axe handle out of it, also great wood for turning on a lathe. Also great firewood but it tends to pop a lot due to the oils in it. The same oils make it good for fence posts and outdoor wood.

I really appreciate the detail of your post. Have studied up on some videos on the bore cut. Not sure there was enough trunk to do that justice. Note that first fell did leave about 4 inches of hinge sticking up on the one side (another 4 inches) but that was it. I carefully cut that away and the rest of an inch and a half hinge to release the trunk from the stump. It didn't move at all when it was released. Then I worked my way around the branches until it rolled off the stump to one side. This was done very carefully choosing which branch to cut next, anticipating what effect each release would have. It fell off the trunk as anticipated. I'm continuing to post details because I'm here to learn in spite of the abusive posts. At the same time, I'm willing to say no to that next neighbor I mentioned above in my response to JTM. Perhaps I should have left the hinge and done the branches first. Eh?

Will remember to let my saw cool down next time.

In terms of sharpness, I've not had to sharpen my saw yet at all. The bar and chain are new and it just keeps on cutting. Oregon is the brand. I went back later today and worked on that first stump with no cutting issues. I'm amazed, but pleased. I did cut up a crab apple tree with it for the other neighbor, oh, and did some of my own Osage Oranges in my back yard, so it has seen some service.

Thanks again. What are your thoughts about me posting here before doing a fall? I'm thinking I should have taken better pictures by clearing away the small branches and actually measuring things so it's clearer what I'm dealing with. I can surely do that for the added info.

 

[Joe Kuhn]

If you end up with some relatively straight pieces several inches in diameter do a little research. You might find you have some nice staves for bow making.

I've got at least one candidate for a bow. Will dig it out of the pile...