PM Canadien

[jockeydeuce]

On the crack in the handle....have you checked the phone book for welding shops? You might want to check autobody shops...they might have a tig.....

Having a TIG and having a welder with the expertise to weld magnesium are two different things.....Ask around and wait until you find the guy that has welded on chainsaw parts before...It will be worth not taking it to just anyone with a TIG.

 

[trappermike]

Sorry the piston is finished...:bang: The missing chunk affects the intake timing and the piston is weakened,but I'll bet someone has one.
You might ask a motorcycle shop about someone who can weld magnesium,a few bike parts are made of it. A saw shop I worked in long ago we welded cracks like that with acetylene,but there's better ways now,just need a guy who's done it.

 

[lmbrman]

Thanks for the help so far, and more to come I am certain. I really am not sure how far to go or how much money to spend on this saw- not like I need it, never ran one(which could help or hurt if I had). I do have an old zip that looks to be in good condition as well as a couple macs and a RAM all or none of which may or may not be in running condition under the grime.

I did find someone to weld the magnesium, but I am not sure they have done much of that work before, and from what I read on here I want someone with experience. I will keep looking on that end, and if that can be fixed reasonable, then I might pursue a piston.

I have a couple other old saws around that were deemed by myself too expensive to fix, and I just cleaned them up and put them on a shelf in the house to look at, which is not the worst thing to do.

Got the saw from TreeMonkey and his ol man for sharpening chains at their shop, so no dissapointment on the aquisition.

 

[Jacob J.]

By any chance have you PMed Jacob J?

The purest aren't going to like this suggestion.....on the piston damage....you might want to check where it aligns in the cylinder....if the necessary ports are blocked at the right time....you 'might' be able use that one..... .

On the crack in the handle....have you checked the phone book for welding shops? You might want to check autobody shops...they might have a tig.....

I'd rather you guys didn't PM me fishing for parts. If I have what you need, I'll contact you. If I don't contact you, that means I don't
have what you need. I get enough PMs from guys everyday wanting advice and parts and ideas on prices. I'm taking 18 credits in
school right now and I'm busier than I'd like to be.

That being said, I'd like to see this project go forward. Any PM Canadien saw like this deserves to be back up and running so I'll take a
shot at helping find parts for this.

 

[leeha]

As for the piston, I would replace it with new or good used.
The crack, I would have an experience welder who has welded
magnesium give it a good weld. You should be able to get it
up and running with out to much money.


Lee

 

[lmbrman]

right about now a video of a 187 cutting wood help :msp_smile:

 

[M-tooth]

right about now a video of a 187 cutting wood help :msp_smile:

Don't forget my offer, which may also help in getting that saw out of your mind and life. just let me know how much the shipping costs :msp_smile:

 

[lmbrman]

Don't forget my offer, which may also help in getting that saw out of your mind and life. just let me know how much the shipping costs :msp_smile:

well, being no one else has asked, you are first on the list,, but, the saw would likely end up cleaned and on a shelf in my house first- just that I do not know how to part with saws yet, and seems unlikely I will learn

you ever run one, or hear one ? Pretty big saw cc wise, and yet it feels pretty lightweight

 

[Adirondackstihl]

Any increased time spent in the shop is also a dead give-a-way

Exactly...LOL.. Wife always knows when I've brought home a new toy no matter what it is cause I head straight for the garage.

 

[M-tooth]

well, being no one else has asked, you are first on the list,, but, the saw would likely end up cleaned and on a shelf in my house first- just that I do not know how to part with saws yet, and seems unlikely I will learn

you ever run one, or hear one ? Pretty big saw cc wise, and yet it feels pretty lightweight

I had never heard of PM before this post, here is some info on it,

Model Profile: 187

beautiful picture down at the bottom of this page^

According to the site it weighs, and has about the same power as my 051AV

 

[lmbrman]

there is the SKIL equivalent on fleabay right now- seized

also a "piston cylinder", which I found out in this case means the cylinder a piston goes in Reason for selling: piston blown

maybe this is a weak spot on these saws- notice it broke right along the grove in my picture ?

 

[trappermike]

I don't think that broken skirt on the piston was a "natural" failure during operation,I'm thinking maybe someone stuck a screwdriver into the intake port to stop the motor to remove the clutch nut or something like that,it doesn't look like that happened while the motor was running.

 

[lmbrman]

I don't think that broken skirt on the piston was a "natural" failure during operation,I'm thinking maybe someone stuck a screwdriver into the intake port to stop the motor to remove the clutch nut or something like that,it doesn't look like that happened while the motor was running.

well, certainly possible,, There is some damage at the top of the cylinder around the squish band, several large marks. I can try and get another picture of it. Bearings are nice and quiet.

There is no evidence in the crankcase of debris either - maybe others that have worked on these saws have stories to share, I have no clue. The cylinder was not 'glued' on to the case as normal, just popped right off as if it had been removed earlier, maybe that is why it was traded in years back.

why the machined grove in the bottom of this piston ? to hold/carry oil ??

 

[lmbrman]

cylinder debris damage ?

pic of the cylinder - think I am actually improving at the pics even if my shop looks like heck from spending my evenings on here

looks to me something rather large was in the saw while running, but did very little damage to the important part of the cylinder.
somebody with more experience can chime in-

 

[trappermike]

Guess I was wrong,looks like it did run a bit after the piston broke.

Here's a little interesting info I found on those oddball Canadien cylinders. Before I finished tearing down my 275 Canadien I put a degree wheel on it to discover it's port timing;

Exhaust- 160 degrees duration
Intake- 142 degrees duration
Transfer- 128 degrees duration
Blowdown-16 degrees

Ignition Timing- 35 degrees BTDC (Factory)
Points gap- .015"
Piston clearance- .005"-.006"
Ring end gap- .007"-.017"

Dispacement: 123cc 2.625"x1.375" (66.6mm x 34.9mm)

Introduced in 1963

 

[lmbrman]

trappermike-

good info, also I am still curious about that machined grove around the bottom of the piston- did your model have that also? Seems like maybe PM tried some different stuff at that time, but I really have not torn on any other saws of that vintage. I was curious if any other saws used the small numerous ports- seems like the intent was to allow the rings to not be pinned??

I did look at the intake ports and there are actually a few marks/dings that might support your theory on the piston - I am not convinced one way or the other - could have been several incidents with the saw before it was thrown in the pile That damage in the cylinder is so slight that someone must have stopped right away?? Seems unlikely all that material from the piston could have cleared the cylinder that fast with so little damage, especially with the small ports ??

First older saw for me to tear into- glad for some input/advice :msp_thumbup:

 

[trappermike]

As for your piston damage I think that someone broke the piston by jamming it,then started the saw,heard (crunching) noise,then stopped it and cleared out the debris.It does not look the the chunk broke off when it was running. As for the groove around the bottom of the skirt it is not commonly seen,may have been to retain oil,my 275 has it too.
As for the ports design-a lot of drilled holes,this design has been used in other older 2-strokes,the Tecumseh 2-strokes are a good example. Yes the rings aren't pinned because they can't catch in these small holes.
I'm guessing the port timing in your model is similar to the 275.

These motors are also unique in that they have a large channel on each side of the crankcase extending down to the bottom front of the crankcase to feed the transfer ports in the cylinder,as partially seen in one of your photos. This gives the crankcases in the saws very high volume,I think these motors must have the lowest crankcase compression ratio of any 2-stroke I've seen. For this reason I'm going to adapt a motorcycle reed valve assembly to mine,and it will give me some nice options for power mods too.
I'm wondering if the larger HL carb and intake block from the 275 would fit on your saw...The cylinder and ports design of these saws do offer some interesting mods possibilities.
As for the ignition I wouldn't worry about finding points(But I think some newer ones match) because the cheap electronic modules should work on these saws,I've got one to put on mine.

I hope you find a piston,you will love the sound of that beast running.:msp_thumbup:

 

[lmbrman]

never used a degree wheel, but maybe when I am ready for reassembly I will try one just for kicks- read a little about it on here

I knew nothing about this saw when i started, picked it out because it appeared mostly complete, and figured it was around 70cc's until I read on the acres site otherwise.

I did get the name of a guy to weld the magnesium, so I guess I will finish tearing it down and get that fixed for starters.

forecast here is for snow tomorrow and all my work saws are sharp and clean, so the PM could get attention

 

[trappermike]

I have a helpful tip for you before you risk welding that hard-to-get part,find an old junk magnesium saw part,bash a crack in it for the welder to test weld first,see if he can weld it ok first before you sacrifice your valuable part. That's how my buddy taught me to weld magnesium and aluminum with a torch long ago,by practicing on old parts...

 

[lmbrman]

I have a helpful tip for you before you risk welding that hard-to-get part,find an old junk magnesium saw part,bash a crack in it for the welder to test weld first,see if he can weld it ok first before you sacrifice your valuable part. That's how my buddy taught me to weld magnesium and aluminum with a torch long ago,by practicing on old parts...

thanks trappermike - hope you stick around my thread for the next year or so to help walk me thru

is that your 275 in the avatar ? video ??