Safe Falling of rotting Ash

[GrizG]

I have watched the longer video trying to figure out what happened several times. The whole thing looks wrong from the beginning.
-Why would you be flush cutting , to drop a tree with branches. Go up 16 inches..get out of the balled up position.stand up and cut.
- he never watches the crown of the tree, its alwsy the kerf.
-the part that gets him is his retreat. He retreats to due south of the cut. To make a show for the camera. He got closer and behind the trunk. Instead of heading 45 degrees directly away..

If he's cutting that tree to mill into boards cutting 16" higher would be wasting quite a number of board feet... there could be 15+ b.f. of boards in 16" of that log. For example, a 14x14" cant 16" long would yield about 20 b.f. if cut to 4/4. Net (14x12.5x16)/144 = 19.44 b.f. 12.5 was used as an estimate to allow for the kerfs. That is a fair amount of money in walnut...

On the long version of the video I was surprised at how high his stump was on the first tree. That was until I looked closely and saw there may be some defect on the face cut side of that tree. The second tree was more like I expected.

Yes, not looking up was generally bad practice... as was his escape route. Being that a bore cut was used to set the hinge on the leaner I'd have stopped the cut and left a trigger. Then withdrawn the bar from the kerf rather than exiting the cut out the back. That would give the cutter a chance to take a look for hazards before and during cutting the trigger from the outside of the tree. Hopefully, now that he's been spared of death, he will change his ways in the future!

 

[sand sock]

i checked ohio foresty sale reports. walnut was up about$750 per 1k board feet. i was shocked, fireweood is still worth more . i think they quote dme $500 per tree, about 2 years ago probab ly about 550 to 600 now. i'll wait https://woodlandstewards.osu.edu/si...ce/Ohio Timber Price Report_FINAL_JUL2021.pdf

 

[ATH]

That report is for stumpage. That means a standing tree in the woods. It needs to be filled, skidded, loaded, and hauled to the mill. That adds +/-200-250 per MBF. That also absorbs risk that when the tree is felled, it may not be the grade they were expecting.

To compare the price of a standing tree to delivered firewood is kinda like saying cubic zirconia is worth more than diamond because a ring at Walmart costs more than a diamond still in the mine... (does it? might not be a perfect example...I don't know jewelry!)

Unless you are looking at the delivered log prices...if so, which graded are you looking at? Even blocking is $275 per thousand. That is just a delivered log/no further processing involved. There are roughly 1000 bdft of solid wood in a cord.... How much are you getting for firewood?

All this to say: There are a lot of trees that will never make a merchantable log. Make firewood from those. Let somebody else take the merchandisable trees and write you a check for them.

 

[sand sock]

Firewood around here is around $200 a cord. That is dead ash. They load and haul. I think we're pretty close to seeing firewood go up to 300, with what oil\propane are doing. If your getting mixed oak and other stuff. Your at 300 solid, nobody will sell for less.

Those walnut trees. They quoted 500 for. I can get 700 to 800 for as firewood

 

[ATH]

Firewood around here is around $200 a cord. That is dead ash. They load and haul. I think we're pretty close to seeing firewood go up to 300, with what oil\propane are doing. If your getting mixed oak and other stuff. Your at 300 solid, nobody will sell for less.

Those walnut trees. They quoted 500 for. I can get 700 to 800 for as firewood

but how much time will you spend processing it? Or are you saying you get $300 per cord for people to take it away just like that?

Also...who quoted you for the walnut? and where in central OH are you? feel free to PM if want to share the details and would rather do it privately than open forum... I don't know everybody - but some names stand out as "probably bidding low" while others are solid. I'd be happy to share thoughts on those if I know.

 

[sand sock]

the prices quoted were from out local state forestor for walnut. he thinks i am another 10 years away from a $1000 per tree. that is what i need to make it worth logging out my walnuts , for the amount of damadge will be done.

firewood . i dont cut like everyone else, i drop the tree where i want the brush and i trim off the trash and pile it there. i section off what my truck can pull out of the woods, in multiples of 16 inches. i keep a fe w snatch straps and about 60 feet of heavy rope used on cranes. i pull it out and cut it up. i can fill a 3/4 ton truck on a half tank of gas. about 1/3 cord. i back up the truck and load the rounds, so i am not carrying it 50 feet. thas about 45 minutes on trunk wood. branches take longer. i do cut the entire t ree, that skew s the time to cut. i pull my truck and splitter up to my box or ibc crate. split and fill the container. it takes about 30 minutes for 1/3 cord. so that is about 95 minutes.
thas rough farmers math. 1 or 2 years later. when i am burning out spring fence rows, the brush gets consumed.

 

[ATH]

You might try to get some actual quotes... walnut prices are nuts right now. I still wouldn't be cutting those for firewood. Plenty of other trees that nobody wants to buy for a log.

 

[sand sock]

You might try to get some actual quotes... walnut prices are nuts right now. I still wouldn't be cutting those for firewood. Plenty of other trees that nobody wants to buy for a log.

I looked and have the doyle ruler for measuring girth and usable lengths

 

[ATH]

I looked and have the doyle ruler for measuring girth and usable lengths

That gets you to volume... But is it worth $1, $2, $3? per board foot. I'm seeing some pretty junky looking walnut logs selling for over $1/board foot right now. $2+ isn't out of the question Easily $8 to $10 per foot if it's veneer grade... which is less common.

Obviously, they are your trees so do whatever you want. I just try to help people get the most out of their woods that they can... It may very well be that you have all the information you need and you've made the best possible decision. I'm not trying to tell you what you should do, just offering my two cents. I've been at Forester here for a while working with private landowners so I've seen a lot of mistakes made based on inadequate information.

 

[GrizG]

That gets you to volume... But is it worth $1, $2, $3? per board foot. I'm seeing some pretty junky looking walnut logs selling for over $1/board foot right now. $2+ isn't out of the question Easily $8 to $10 per foot if it's veneer grade... which is less common.

Obviously, they are your trees so do whatever you want. I just try to help people get the most out of their woods that they can... It may very well be that you have all the information you need and you've made the best possible decision. I'm not trying to tell you what you should do, just offering my two cents. I've been at Forester here for a while working with private landowners so I've seen a lot of mistakes made based on inadequate information.

I concur... It also seems that everybody with a walnut tree in their yard thinks it will top off their retirement plan! No regard for the quality of the tree or the effort to remove it, mill it, or market it... It's walnut, it must be worth a fortune!

 

[kenmbz]

With the winds over 55mph here a few more Ash have fallen by themselves.
Of course it's not any of the ones that I want to fall!

 

[rwoods]

I am hopeful that our winds yesterday brought down some tops that the last strong winds left hanging in other trees. The woods I am working seem to be getting more dangerous every week.

Ron

 

[GrizG]

I am hopeful that our winds yesterday brought down some tops that the last strong winds left hanging in other trees. The woods I am working seem to be getting more dangerous every week.

Ron

Same here... Our recent ice storm exacerbated the problem. I've already cut about 50 trees on my family's properties and have at least that many more to go... Some sections of the rail trail I help maintain looked like scenes from the movie Hamburger Hill... A hole has been punched through but it will take months for the volunteers to finish the clean up.

 

[Cricket]

I am hopeful that our winds yesterday brought down some tops that the last strong winds left hanging in other trees. The woods I am working seem to be getting more dangerous every week.

Ron

I have a smallish (like 12") ash against one side of my barn, that's hung up in the walnut next to it. It's disintegrating even in that wind protected, held up by another tree position. I just decided I don't need to walk in that area for a while. It's flat against the barn wall, tangled in the walnut (actually, because I have no ash really - I just thought it was another walnut, because I never really checked). I can think of not one good reason to get near the thing - it will be a pile of punk by next year at the latest.

 

[kenmbz]

What happens when the stump is rotted below grade and I didn't notice.
Was almost done with back cut when I heard a crack, tree starts moving.
Got to watch from about 100' away, never trust a dead ash


I need to buy another snatch block and just rope the one next to this to see if it will just pop too. It looked worse.
Just heard another one fall, heavy winds here, but it does not look like any of the ones I need out of the way , oh well

 

[GrizG]

What happens when the stump is rotted below grade and I didn't notice.
Was almost done with back cut when I heard a crack, tree starts moving.
Got to watch from about 100' away, never trust a dead ash
View attachment 972626

I need to buy another snatch block and just rope the one next to this to see if it will just pop too. It looked worse.
Just heard another one fall, heavy winds here, but it does not look like any of the ones I need out of the way , oh well

I've had that happen too. As such I developed the habit of pushing on the ash before I start cutting. I've pushed at least a dozen over with my hands and body weight alone. I stopped touching ash trees while out hunting too as I've had them fall over... They become more dangerous every day!

 

[kenmbz]

These are too big to push on, might end up with a split trunk in me.
Have had quite a few do split 10-15' up on a fall.
Time for ropes and distance. Glad my bigger rope is 200' !
I still have at least 6 to get down before spring takes hold. The rest I may just rope the branches off if they'll cooperate.

 

[GrizG]

These are too big to push on, might end up with a split trunk in me.
Have had quite a few do split 10-15' up on a fall.
Time for ropes and distance. Glad my bigger rope is 200' !
I still have at least 6 to get down before spring takes hold. The rest I may just rope the branches off if they'll cooperate.

I've found that if they've got significant root rot that the size doesn't matter too much. It is also easier to see and hear what is going on when the saw isn't in my hands and isn't running. Of course, "best practices" dictates that we assess the hazards of every tree we cut. As such, our experience based judgement while assessing a tree trumps the WWW!

 

[JimR]

What happens when the stump is rotted below grade and I didn't notice.
Was almost done with back cut when I heard a crack, tree starts moving.
Got to watch from about 100' away, never trust a dead ash
View attachment 972626

I need to buy another snatch block and just rope the one next to this to see if it will just pop too. It looked worse.
Just heard another one fall, heavy winds here, but it does not look like any of the ones I need out of the way , oh well

That tree must have been dead for a few years. I have been dealing with a lot of standing dead Ash on our property due to Ash blight. I have yet to have one that bad in the roots.

 

[JimR]

I have been unable to keep up with all the dead Ash ( I probably have 1000) on my farm yet I still cut firewood every year. Those familiar w/ ash know that the bole (base) begins to dry rot fairly quickly. I want to fell these trees and salvage what I can...but how to do it SAFELY? In the past I pretty much just went for it, wedged the best I could and if that failed, hand winched it over with a long cable. Is there a correct way or are there better alternatives?

Excavator