Safety Alert: Stop Use Petzl ZIGZAG

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I think there is a big problem when a company (Petzl) will design an item (ZigZag) intended for life support to only marginally exceed a minimum strength standard. As a zigzag owner, I think that how Petzl addresses their/my problem is certainly gonna determine any future Petzl product purchases from this consumer. This is like getting served a lousy meal at a prestigious restaurant...do you go back again? Personally, I won't. Got really sick after eating some IKEA hotdogs a couple of years ago. Have never gone back to roll to dice again.

I don't know how they arrived at that figure, but again, I'll state that it exceeds by far the pre existing standard of a prussik which will slip at as little as 4kn. We're a fussy bunch for sure. For me, I'd never buy a zig zag. I think it's a poor design, too large and cumbersome, and I just plain don't like the look of it. I borrowed a spiderjack for a while and tried that too, but it was really finnicky to use. Maybe it's because I'm too heavy. It seems to suit climbers who weigh a lot less than I do. Maybe that's the trouble with mechanical devices in general, and the biggest reason why there hasnt yet (to my mind) been a suitable replacement for the friction hitch created. Friction hitches are so tunable for different scenarios. There are many variables in our game; weight of the climber, diameter of the rope, friction at the crotch, or friction saver, wet rope, old rope, fast descent, slow descent, different types of ropes etc.... not only can you change between different types of hitches easily, but any given hitch can be tied, set and dressed to give you the amount of friction you are looking for. You can really tweak them to get what you want. That's something that I haven't found with mechanical devices; they're sort of a 'one setting' kind of a deal.

The funniest thing is, I was rock climbing, caving, canyoning, doing rescue work and industrial access for many years before I came to tree climbing. I just couldn't accept the friction hitch as a work positioning tool initially. It seemed crazy! I'd used prussiks in past as a back up, or for ascending in a pinch, but would never dream of using a single prussik as my only life support. I started climbing trees using mechanical ascenders and descenders which is what I was familiar with. What a pain! Reluctantly I started trying hitches, and I realised it was the only tool that suited this type of work. Hitches themselves are far from foolproof, they require strict attention. One wrong move and you can easily take a ride to the ground. I can see a day where hitches will be banned by safety departments for use. They're not legal in any other industrial/roped discipline. Hopefully there is a more suitable mechanical device available by that time.

I'd suggest you contact petzl directly, put your name on the list and see how they resolve your problem. They have a long track record of being great supporters of industry. Not just in terms of industry specific products, but as educators, and sponsors of events. They've been great long term supporters of rock climbing in general, funding competitions, creating new routes, encouraging people to participate. Not just as a one off, but year after year, around the world. It would be a good thing for our industry to have that kind of support.

Shaun
 
I think there is a big problem when a company (Petzl) will design an item (ZigZag) intended for life support to only marginally exceed a minimum strength standard. As a zigzag owner, I think that how Petzl addresses their/my problem is certainly gonna determine any future Petzl product purchases from this consumer. This is like getting served a lousy meal at a prestigious restaurant...do you go back again? Personally, I won't. Got really sick after eating some IKEA hotdogs a couple of years ago. Have never gone back to roll to dice again.

IKEA hot dogs? Did you have to put it together yourself?
 
Petzl makes some really cool innovative products. Unfortunately they come from the rock climbing industry. This is an industry where guys talk about throwing someone off a cliff if you step on someone’s line. We are in the tree industry. We work in a very imperfect world. I hated the zigzag the first time I saw it, a new hire wanted to use it off the crane. I wasn’t comfortable with it, it would be subjected to many more cycles then it was ever intended to. We all hated that upper attachment point.

I have bought the guys many petzl saddles, I am completely done with that. Every petzl saddle I have bought (6-7 I have lost count) has started falling apart within 6 months, usually junk within a year. Justin had the seat on one of his break in half. I will not buy them for our climbers anymore. They are light, innovative, and very well thought out, but lack the extra reinforcement necessary to last in the tree industry. The past 4 saddles I have bought have been the Buckingham deluxe line, the oldest is 2+ years old and has been used daily 50+ hr weeks and looks as good as the day I bought it. Zero signs of wear, no broken leg straps, literately no signs of wear.
 
Petzl makes some really cool innovative products. Unfortunately they come from the rock climbing industry. This is an industry where guys talk about throwing someone off a cliff if you step on someone’s line. We are in the tree industry. We work in a very imperfect world. I hated the zigzag the first time I saw it, a new hire wanted to use it off the crane. I wasn’t comfortable with it, it would be subjected to many more cycles then it was ever intended to. We all hated that upper attachment point.

I have bought the guys many petzl saddles, I am completely done with that. Every petzl saddle I have bought (6-7 I have lost count) has started falling apart within 6 months, usually junk within a year. Justin had the seat on one of his break in half. I will not buy them for our climbers anymore. They are light, innovative, and very well thought out, but lack the extra reinforcement necessary to last in the tree industry. The past 4 saddles I have bought have been the Buckingham deluxe line, the oldest is 2+ years old and has been used daily 50+ hr weeks and looks as good as the day I bought it. Zero signs of wear, no broken leg straps, literately no signs of wear.
Any Ergovation use?
 
Petzl makes some really cool innovative products. Unfortunately they come from the rock climbing industry. This is an industry where guys talk about throwing someone off a cliff if you step on someone’s line. We are in the tree industry. We work in a very imperfect world. I hated the zigzag the first time I saw it, a new hire wanted to use it off the crane. I wasn’t comfortable with it, it would be subjected to many more cycles then it was ever intended to. We all hated that upper attachment point.

I have bought the guys many petzl saddles, I am completely done with that. Every petzl saddle I have bought (6-7 I have lost count) has started falling apart within 6 months, usually junk within a year. Justin had the seat on one of his break in half. I will not buy them for our climbers anymore. They are light, innovative, and very well thought out, but lack the extra reinforcement necessary to last in the tree industry. The past 4 saddles I have bought have been the Buckingham deluxe line, the oldest is 2+ years old and has been used daily 50+ hr weeks and looks as good as the day I bought it. Zero signs of wear, no broken leg straps, literately no signs of wear.
My sequoia has held up well. It has seen a lot of use and has been an excellent purchase.
 
Although it is a bit lacking with any saw much bigger than a 200t hanging from it. If you want a 460 at your side doing big removals than ya its no good.
 
Can I swap the rope bridge for a sliding double D bridge ? We just ordered one with a rope bridge. What bridge you using Phil?

Not really. I'm still using the original bridge. Looks like Velocity. Here's a link to the instruction manual. You need Adobe reader.

Buckingham Manufacturing Company, Inc.: Ergovation

Ergo is the most comfortable saddle I've used. I'm top heavy with short legs and it's the first saddle I've ever been able to adjust to get a good balance.
Phil
 
Not really. I'm still using the original bridge. Looks like Velocity. Here's a link to the instruction manual. You need Adobe reader.

Buckingham Manufacturing Company, Inc.: Ergovation

Ergo is the most comfortable saddle I've used. I'm top heavy with short legs and it's the first saddle I've ever been able to adjust to get a good balance.
Phil

You have to put all that together? :msp_scared:
 
The question is how to prevent it. There are a couple of options - make the holes a lot bigger, so a carabiner cant get caught, or make the holes a lot smoother/rounder and use a soft link between the device and the carabiner.
Shaun
You watch, they are going to come out with a advisory about making sure the carabiner remains oriented correctly and then they will send everyone a 2.00 rubber carabiner trap. I highly doubt refunds and recall.
 
Sad bad for the guy who took the fall finding the weak link for many of us 1st. I liked the look & mech of the ziz zag but was kinda concerned about the strength under load of the pivot point myself i did say
I am troubled by the housing hiding the ball swivel joint weak point sure its engineered for x to the power weight but as I could no see wear point it leaves me just thinkin
knowing that work climbing is dynamic so things get moved and pushed around and not always set up perfect like a factory load test.




http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/231929-6.htm#post4257653
 
Well, how can you rely on any carabiner, from any manufacturer? Or any rope, or harness? Or even the tree that you are attaching them to? You can get a bit silly about this kind of stuff.

Petzl's QA and QC is as good as anybody's, and they were pioneers in their industry apply the 3 sigma standard which most other reputable companies have also applied (black diamaond, DMM). The rest is just common sense - inspect your gear regularly, take personal responsibility of your own safety.

Shaun
 

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