Scheduling Methods

[teamtree]

Please comment on methods used to schedule jobs.....spreadsheets, note pads, etc., how far out? how do you contact customers and when......just curious

 

[gorman]

Everyone has a smart phone so email is a great backup communique.

 

[climbhightree]

I use google calendar, and post it on my website. My customers seem to appreciate it, and it works well if I keep it updated (which I need to do now). It sometimes causes problems, because customer expects me to show up on a certain day and things happen to change that.

What I like about it is, I can update it via computer or phone and it changes it on website etc automatically.

http://www.climbhightree.com/Schedule.html

 

[imagineero]

That's pretty nice, but it kinda puts you in a weak bargaining position in quiet times. Do you ever 'schedule' customers that don't exist in winter to make yourself look a little busier?

 

[climbhightree]

I don't follow you. My price per hour is the same during the winter/summer etc, it is not negotiable (I hate when people try to wheel and deal). The only time it changes is for storm work, and that because my regular work has to wait. Winter I am usually 2-3 weeks out. The other seasons can sometimes get me 2-3 months out...and tree work is all I do all year around (no lawns, no snow, no shrubs, no planting).

Now I do have a couple clients (Boro's) that I can do whatever I want at, so if things get real slow I go there to work. If I see a hazard that needs addressed (and the place is in the middle of the woods, so there is always something), I can just do it and billed them.

 

[teamtree]

I would guess if you look busy you can use it to your advantage? I know when I bid work sometimes when we get busy my estimated time by goes up but if we are slow I may bid it with less time. My rate stays the same, just the time fluctuates. If I really need the work then I may say 4 hours and the price is 4x......if we are swamped I may say 5 hours and the price is 5x.

I have attempted to capture my backlog so I can look at it and know that I have a workload of 320 man hours or 480 man hours.

I would really like to have a system that captures all the information as it goes through the process.....request for quote....acceptance......work order.....scheduling......job completion.....billing....how did we do...payment....opportunities for cross-selling.....future work planning.....reminders......

 

[climbhightree]

You may not be adjusting your rate, but in a essence you are...your are changing your price according to how busy you are. I just wouldn't want to risk that getting out to an customer. It just easier to bit a fair, and as accurate as possible , estimate to everyone. And be up front on how long it may take to get to their trees, if really busy.

I use quickbooks for my estimating and invoicing etc. Along with the Mobile app, I can print estimates and invoices on site for the customer...I can even accept payment. Through the computer program there are ways to track items (Removal vs thinning, estimates vs invoices, income expense graph etc)

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[teamtree]

That was my point.....unless every job is t&m.....everyone has a cost per hour......say three guys all have a cost of 250 per hour but all three have different time estimates......then there is what actually happens.....so yes, we all adjust our rate, in esscence....you just change the hours. Do you give a discount when your job comes in under your estimate? I do a cost savings with them.....split the difference.

I have used QB for over 20 years and it is a great tool to use....but I would like to take it a bit beyond it's capabilities. It lacks a bit on the contact management side of things but has made strides in the last several years.

 

[teamtree]

I like the idea of your schedule but seems like you have to do a ton of calling if the weather screws up your system. My fear would be a customer sees a date and does not check the calendar and then when it changes and you don't show...they are pissed.

This is one of the toughest industries to schedule residential work.....so many factors that play into it. For instance, when your Monday job is rained out....do you push your whole week back or reschedule Monday to another date. We try to keep Friday's open on schedule and use it as a make up day....and we usually can fill it if weather is ok.

 

[teamtree]

Also, you ever have your local competition use it against you? I don't know how big of a town Lebanon is but seems like there may be some potential for a slick competitor use it against you.

 

[climbhightree]

How so? I tell potential customer my time frame at time of Estimate. And most times that I have a online schedule. Have I lost jobs because of busy schedule, sure. But who hasn't.

I don't call on reschedule (jobs going long, rain) that is what the schedule is for. They are supposed to check it (I clearly say the dates are tentative, and subject to change). For the most part my estimates are contracts, I win or loose. But if things go extremely fast I usually discount.

I just don't play the price game it busy or slow. Man hour price stays same, and I try to bod as close to actual time as possible.

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[teamtree]

How so? I tell potential customer my time frame at time of Estimate. And most times that I have a online schedule. Have I lost jobs because of busy schedule, sure. But who hasn't.

I don't call on reschedule (jobs going long, rain) that is what the schedule is for. They are supposed to check it (I clearly say the dates are tentative, and subject to change). For the most part my estimates are contracts, I win or loose. But if things go extremely fast I usually discount.

I just don't play the price game it busy or slow. Man hour price stays same, and I try to bod as close to actual time as possible.

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So, if I hear you right....you just show up whenever you want? I like for the customer to know we are coming so they can move cars, put the dog in the house, alert the neighbors, etc. We let our customers know when we will be there....if it rains we call and reschedule.....the customers really appreciate it. When it was just me running things....I would call a day or two in advance and let them know.

I doubt if your estimate would be considered a true contract....basic business law would say there is no consideration given at the time of acceptance. I have had that conversation as well.....are you bound to do the job????....no Are they are not bound to have you do the job even if they accept your estimate....no It is all good....if you feel better about thinking it helps then do it.

You say you don't play the price game but I don't see how you don't. My per hour price stays the same like yours. Do all your estimate come out to be your exact estimate? If I tell someone it is a $1000 to remove a tree....it is going to be $1000 almost 99% of the time. I rarely charge more than my estimate and if the job goes really smooth....I may discount it. It may take me 3.75 hours or 4 or 4.25....I am not playing with my rates.....in costing terms.....the difference is in efficiency.

 

[teamtree]

If you are off on your estimate....do you charge the actual amount? Now I think that is what a true estimate should be....like a mechanic.

I would have a hard time believing if I changed my estimated price to actual, especially if it was more....my customers would be happy. How do you deal with those situations?

 

[BC WetCoast]

If you are off on your estimate....do you charge the actual amount? Now I think that is what a true estimate should be....like a mechanic.

I would have a hard time believing if I changed my estimated price to actual, especially if it was more....my customers would be happy. How do you deal with those situations?

We don't do estimates, we do price quotes. We require the customer to sign the quote before we will do the work, therefore it becomes a contract.

Keep your schedule on track, work in the rain.

 

[climbhightree]

I would guess if you look busy you can use it to your advantage? I know when I bid work sometimes when we get busy my estimated time by goes up but if we are slow I may bid it with less time. My rate stays the same, just the time fluctuates. If I really need the work then I may say 4 hours and the price is 4x......if we are swamped I may say 5 hours and the price is 5x.

I have attempted to capture my backlog so I can look at it and know that I have a workload of 320 man hours or 480 man hours..

Right here you said you adjust your price based on if you busy or not. You add a hour.

My estimate are signed, I the basically are a contract. If they call and say the no longer want the work done, then we end it. But up to that point I can show up when ever I want to do the work. And they can use the calendar to see when that might be. Most of my customers, new and old, are fine with that. A few want to be there, or have a set date, and those I will call/email to confirm or change.

My estimate are pretty firm. If I go over time on it, they do not get charged more then estimate. It just doesn't fly in this area, they get it as a set price. I've had jobs go double the time...some of big jobs 1,000s under bid. That is my loss. Sometimes I spell out our hours on the invoice, and let them decide if they want to pay more, but I make it clear all they are responsible for is the estimate amount.

It is the one thing that makes me mad about this field. We are expected to give a firm price on a 50-100' tree while standing on the ground. While a plumber, mechanic, etc can give a ballpark...But charge time and material (mechanics even have books to say how long something should take) . Plus we risk limb and limb on top of that to do the work. Customers expect a firm price, but if you bang it out fast they also expect an discount.


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[teamtree]

Right here you said you adjust your price based on if you busy or not. You add a hour.

My estimate are signed, I the basically are a contract. If they call and say the no longer want the work done, then we end it. But up to that point I can show up when ever I want to do the work. And they can use the calendar to see when that might be. Most of my customers, new and old, are fine with that. A few want to be there, or have a set date, and those I will call/email to confirm or change.

My estimate are pretty firm. If I go over time on it, they do not get charged more then estimate. It just doesn't fly in this area, they get it as a set price. I've had jobs go double the time...some of big jobs 1,000s under bid. That is my loss. Sometimes I spell out our hours on the invoice, and let them decide if they want to pay more, but I make it clear all they are responsible for is the estimate amount.

It is the one thing that makes me mad about this field. We are expected to give a firm price on a 50-100' tree while standing on the ground. While a plumber, mechanic, etc can give a ballpark...But charge time and material (mechanics even have books to say how long something should take) . Plus we risk limb and limb on top of that to do the work. Customers expect a firm price, but if you bang it out fast they also expect an discount.


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I think we are both on the same page.......You are trying to say I change my rate by changing my estimated time. It is all the same to me.....when times are good I am more concervative and when times are lean I get aggressive. As a basic principle of cost accounting....your cost per hour is not going to change....only the time it takes you do the work. But hey...it is not worth arguing over.....

I am in total agreement with your last paragraph.......it sucks.....but I think we do it to ourselves...there is always someone wanting to charge less for the same work.....but a plumber or mechanic will not....go figure.

I like having good guys to price against becuase they keep their prices up where they need to be....but some slap **** comes into the business without the proper insurance and equipment and charges half, making most of us look bad.....in the eyes of the customer......not in the work

 

[teamtree]

We don't do estimates, we do price quotes. We require the customer to sign the quote before we will do the work, therefore it becomes a contract.

Keep your schedule on track, work in the rain.

What is the difference between a quote and estimate?

Having them sign the quote does not consitute a contract......there is no consideration....and if there was a contract, it would be for the benefit of the person having the work done.....not us tree guys....but as I told climbinghigh.....if it makes you feel better to believe you have a contract....have at it. I have been through this before and that signed quote/estimate is nothing but someones word on paper....which means nothing in court.

They could call 3 weeks later and cancel and you would not have anything to fall back on......because there is no consideration....

Now I would say there may be some slick away around this but that would require a pretty elaborate contract.

 

[climbhightree]

If they call to cancel a work order, whether for an emergency or found another bid, why would I want to do the job?? If it was for a emergency reason, once things settle down they will probably call back to schedule it. If they cancel cause they found another bid they like better, then they aren't a customer I want anyways.

I have no time or money invested into their job...other than the estimate (which is unfortunately free anyways).

I get them to sign because I've had a couple people not pay afterward, or say your not the one I hired to do this work (after he walked pass our truck at least twice...and we were on second day there). This way I have proof that they signed to have us do the work. I realize it is not a contract like you make with a lawyer etc, but is still better than a verbal agreement. It spells it out on paper what you are going to do to their trees, and their signature saying it is ok to do that.

 

[teamtree]

Agreed.....but once you do the work.....you have consideration.

I have rarely had people cancel and it was usually becuase someone will do it cheaper.....I used to worry about that stuff but now I just take care of the people that call me back from previous work or referrals. I like to have clients not one time customers. I pissed one guy off big time by telling him I would rather not give him an estimate for the third time. I gave him two estimates and both times he hired some low-rate, no insurance outfit to do his work. I told him politely I will pass....too much work, he would be wasting both our times......he went off on me. I politely told him never to call me again.

We try to do right by our customers but the more work I do I find myself mixed up with a customer that I will never make happy.....it is like being on a bad date. I love bi-polar customers or ones with selective hearing. I would say my "prick-o-meter" is good but I have been fooled.

 

[climbhightree]

Yeah I've been there. There been a couple calls I "forgot" to return, because of multiple bids where they use my estimate and expertise as a certified arborist, and then got another person to do the work.

I also "love" when the husband and wife don't agree with what work should be done, and then start arguing right in front of you...and try to get you to pick a side.

Or the disappointment of having a long term customer, that you done plenty of work for, suddenly shop for other bids on a new job. They have the right to check other companies out, just frustrating to see.