Should I Stop Using a File to Sharpen Chains?

[svk]

Keep hand filing.

I made the jump a few years back. My saws cut well. I only grind rocked chains or hand file chains that need to be straightened out after many sharpenings. Most of the chains I encounter that need to be ground are because they came off a new to me saw that someone else had dulled.

 

[MooneyPilot]

Sharpening a chain with nothing but a file IMHO is more of an artsy skill than a mechanical task. Over the years I have had marginal success with a bare file, but I’ve seen a few guys that could do a surprisingly good job. I think the best I’ve ever done was with a little carbide cutter with a mark for the angle powered with a drill. Although I’m a decent mechanic, I’m not one of the artsy ones and need some sort of guide to have even a chance of a properly sharpened chain.

 

[lone wolf]

Thats the easy part...just use the proper tool and it takes about one minute to get them done....

You rocked it!

 

[holeycow]

I've never even seen a grinder, nor do I know anyone who uses one. I tried the guide that came with my ms362 many years ago. I sharpened about a half a dozen teeth and went "wtf is this useless piece of tin for?". I haven't touched it since.
I've worked with literally hundreds of professional sawhands over the years. They all use a file, usually with the saw on their lap while sitting on the ground somewhere in the bush.

If you can handfile, don't sweat the info from the non-filers. For the most part, they just haven't learned the easy way yet.

it's quicker to hand file a shortish-bar chain than to replace the chain, re-tension, etc..

the ONLY benefit I can see to a grinder is to quickly re-configure a "rocked" chain. I just work it out with several filings. Or perhaps if sharpening chains is part of your business.

most new chains are not very sharp and get a lot better after a couple of handfilings..

every used saw I've bought has had a poorly maintained chain on it. Go figure.

this is a similar discussion to an oil ratio thread...ongoing, redundant, and silly.

 

[Woodanhor]

I've never even seen a grinder, nor do I know anyone who uses one. I tried the guide that came with my ms362 many years ago. I sharpened about a half a dozen teeth and went "wtf is this useless piece of tin for?". I haven't touched it since.
I've worked with literally hundreds of professional sawhands over the years. They all use a file, usually with the saw on their lap while sitting on the ground somewhere in the bush.

If you can handfile, don't sweat the info from the non-filers. For the most part, they just haven't learned the easy way yet.

it's quicker to hand file a shortish-bar chain than to replace the chain, re-tension, etc..

the ONLY benefit I can see to a grinder is to quickly re-configure a "rocked" chain. I just work it out with several filings. Or perhaps if sharpening chains is part of your business.

most new chains are not very sharp and get a lot better after a couple of handfilings..

every used saw I've bought has had a poorly maintained chain on it. Go figure.

this is a similar discussion to an oil ratio thread...ongoing, redundant, and silly.

Thanks for sharing your experience agree with most of your post but some people are always learning and get something from these threads so thanks again

 

[BradSt]

I used to only hand file my chains, and they cut pretty well...but I found that after a handful of sharpenings, the teeth needed to be "trued up" a bit, and a grinder would do that with ease. I would say that I am about average at filing. I understand the significance of hook, top plate angle, and side plate angle, but I can't always get the teeth to look exactly how I want. These days, I have become fairly proficient with my Oregon 520 grinder, and pretty much use that exclusively. I always have my chain off, to clean the saw/bar after I'm done, so a quick pass through the grinder is no big deal. If you only kiss the teeth with the wheel, it doesn't take much off.

Grinder angles of 30/55/10 work very well on Stihl RS cutters. Self feeds, and holds up long enough to satisfy me. Just ordered a Tecomec "green" wheel, and I'm hoping that it will give a bit smoother grind, being 80 grit vs the pink wheel's 60 grit. Also a bit softer, so I'm not sure how that will go...but it gives me something to tinker with anyway. Go with what works for you. I don't cut professionally, and just enjoy this as a "hobby", so take that FWIW.

 

[Yukon Stihl]

To overcome the one side is sharpened better than the other side because you are right/left handed...
sharpen the one side then turn the saw upside down to do the other...

 

[Ted Jenkins]

'Everyone has to find something that works for them'.
Sounds like filing works for you. Sounds like your problem was with the shop.
I can file , but I am better with a file guide, and with the bar or chain secured in a vice of some type, so that I can use 2 hands, and not chase a moving cutter. But I am often sharpening batches of chains, used by others, without having them on the saw, so I prefer to grind. And I have gotten used to it, even for one loop.I doubt that. They probably just used their 'standard settings'. That's one of the big advantages of sharpening your own chains, no matter what tool you use; you get to choose your own angles, etc.

Philbert

'Everyone has to find something that works for them'. Philbert

For me to use a grinder does not work well for me. I often work where there is no electricity avail;able. However if I had to sharpen some one elses chain forget it. For most part I think that setting up a grinder would be practical for many folks even a cheap one. It does take skill to do a great job with a grinder too. I often do my cutting alone so when a chain gets dull plop it down on a vice and a file with in fifteen to twenty minutes I am back in operation. I would have to agree with Philbert on this one size does not fit all. For those who are willing to learn the process filing by hand with out a guide is a very inexpensive effficient way to go. Thanks

 

[float89]

My experience has been practice, practice, practice. @holeycow says it spot on. I bought the Stihl guide with the raker file combo thingy. It worked great until it i noticed it was taking off a lot of raker on one side and almost nothing on the other. Began to cut crooked too! I realized at that point I was no better at hand filing that the stupid guide allowed me to be. Dropped everything but the file. Even the vise. It wasn't pretty at first but over time I learned the skill and "craft" of it and haven't looked back. Now, as long as I have a file, I am good to go!

I would say keep on with the file. Enjoy it. A little break, fall into a little rhythm, know your chain better, and that nice satisfaction of a good sharp chain throwing huge chips.

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

To overcome the one side is sharpened better than the other side because you are right/left handed...
sharpen the one side then turn the saw upside down to do the other...

Thats a great idea , thanks for the tip!

 

[Philbert]

I only grind rocked chains or hand file chains that need to be straightened out after many sharpenings.

You would grind more if you had a grinder! Especially, with all the saws and chains you have been dragging home lately!

Sharpening a chain with nothing but a file IMHO is more of an artsy skill than a mechanical task.

Hand filing is a skill, that requires some knowledge, and some experience to get good at. It is a good choice for many people, but not the only one. I clean up a lot of chains, with a grinder, filed by guys who lack some of that knowledge, skill, or experience. I don't see the chains of the guys who can file at least 'good enough'. As @Ted Jenkins indicated, using a grinder requires skill too. That's why you hear guys say, 'grinders ruin chains': it's guys with grinders, who don't understand how to use them, who 'ruin' chains. There is some 'art' in there too!

I've never even seen a grinder, nor do I know anyone who uses one.

You should get out more!

I often work where there is no electricity avail;able.

We'll get you a treadle operated one Ted!

My experience has been practice, practice, practice.

AND, know what you are trying to accomplish. If you don't know what you want your finished cutters to look like, and expect the file / guide / grinder / etc. to make them 'perfect', you will be disappointed. Once you have that image in your mind, then you can practice until you reach that shape consistently and efficiently.

Philbert

 

[buttercup]

Keep hand filing.

I made the jump a few years back. My saws cut well. I only grind rocked chains or hand file chains that need to be straightened out after many sharpenings. Most of the chains I encounter that need to be ground are because they came off a new to me saw that someone else had dulled.

I spend a lot more time than you on my own and my customers chains, about two hours including washing and oil bath.
I'd say ideally 15 minutes doing the theeth and another 15 minutes doing the rakers, but with the coffee brake, adjusting the machine and some calmness it takes twice that time.
But they gets perfect - every tooth and every rider. And they always come back for it it seems.

I might not become rich but I'll never be entirely out of work.

 

[buttercup]

I spend a lot more time than you on my own and my customers chains, about two hours including washing and oil bath.
I'd say ideally 15 minutes doing the theeth and another 15 minutes doing the rakers, but with the coffee brake, adjusting the machine and some calmness it takes twice that time.
But they gets perfect - every tooth and every rider. And they always come back for it it seems.

I might not become rich but I'll never be entirely out of work.

I want to correct that, have in mind I usually have consumed a beer if I'm on social network... (here)

I had a couple of chains this weekend so it refreshed my mind.
I usually do 13-14" chains because thats all anyone needs around here.

I use 15 minutes doing the teeth - thats 15 minutes each side.
I have a cup with cold water and a cloth in my left hand, I grind about one second at a time - then cool the tooth with my left hand. It all goes pretty quick when you get the routine.
No heated protruding edges this way, and the edge remains hardened.

Then I spend about 15 minutes doing the riders, the riders don't need cooling.
Add the adjustments and the slurp of coffee and you get one hour.

After work it needs washing - especially if you use a stone grinding wheel like I do, because you will get grinding dust from both the chain and from the wheel in to the chain.

After washing it needs an oil bath, so it don't rust and is ready for use.
I just have it in to a box of fresh oil, shake it a little and than hang it so the excess oil drips off the chain - preferably over night if I'm not in a hurry, else the chain will be soaked and the customer gets messy hands.

I take lets say about 5 dollas for the teeth and an additional 5 dollas for adjusting the rakers if necessary - which it usually is.
Customers seems quite happy, why else would they return...

I also do knives, scissors, axes and hedge trimmers and such. Whatever they ask for...

Don't stop what you do - get better at it !

 

[Philbert]

Cooling each tooth with a wet cloth is an interesting method. Many people are concerned with ‘grinder hardening’ the cutter edges due to heating then rapid cooling in air.

Philbert

 

[buttercup]

Cooling each tooth with a wet cloth is an interesting method. Many people are concerned with ‘grinder hardening’ the cutter edges due to heating then rapid cooling in air.

Philbert

How do you harden metal? And how does you soften it.. warm glowed copper, soft or hard?
Why does my edges break off instead of being left like a dull edge on the chain?

 

[Philbert]

‘Grinder hardening’ chainsaw cutters occurs when overheating the teeth - usually enough to change the color. There is little metal at the fine edges, so they cool rapidly in the air. An ‘air quench’, according to an engineer from a saw chain company that I discussed this with.

I have experienced this: a new file slips over the hardened cutter like a knife on buttered glass. Usually not a big problem if it happens- just have to grind through/ past that area.

Philbert

 

[arathol]

30 minutes to sharpen a 14" chain? How do you get any production done? When you have half a dozen each day to maintain thats pretty unacceptable.....not to mention down time during the day if you need to sharpen...With file and gauge I do both sides of a 16" bar and the check the rakers in about 10 minutes.....

How do you harden metal? And how does you soften it ?

Overheating with an abrasive power wheel will change the temper of the cutter. The steel is air hardening, so if you get the tooth too hot it will get very hard and brittle. A file won't cut it, and it may break if you use it. Tempering is a complicated process involving heating to specific temperatures, quenching, reheating to another temperature and maintaining that temperature for specific times to achieve the hardness level required for the part. You need to know what kind of steel you are working with to do this properly.

 

[buttercup]

‘Grinder hardening’ chainsaw cutters occurs when overheating the teeth - usually enough to change the color. There is little metal at the fine edges, so they cool rapidly in the air. An ‘air quench’, according to an engineer from a saw chain company that I discussed this with.

I have experienced this: a new file slips over the hardened cutter like a knife on buttered glass. Usually not a big problem if it happens- just have to grind through/ past that area.

Philbert

Well, I worked as a dental technician, melting, molded and prepared metals like; titanium and gold.
Slow cooling versus rapid cooling is the difference of hardening or softening the metal.
The molecules gets a different arrangement.

 

[OM617YOTA]

OP, your issue is your shop, not your sharpening method. Don't set foot in their building ever again, don't give them another dime, problem solved.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd be pretty angry if a saw shop touched my chain without asking me. I had it sharpened the way it was sharpened because that's how I wanted it. Don't burn off half the life of the chain, trying to fix something that ain't broke, and that I didn't tell you to touch, and expect me to be fine with it.

 

[arathol]

Well, I worked as a dental technician, melting, molded and prepared metals like; titanium and gold.
Slow cooling versus rapid cooling is the difference of hardening or softening the metal.
The molecules gets a different arrangement.

Not at all the same thing...Not even close.....Steel is nothing like titanium or gold. Steel needs to be heated to a specific temperature depending on the alloy content, then quenched in a specific medium, and then there are specific processes for annealing and tempering to the desired hardness, again according to the alloy content.