buttercup
Addicted to ArboristSite
So, if you had the choice to soft cool your chain tooth or harden it - you would chose to soft cool it ?
Should I Stop Using a File to Sharpen Chains?
- Thread starter Paul Bunions
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So, if you had the choice to soft cool your chain tooth or harden it - you would chose to soft cool it ?
I have spoken with a number of metallurgists, who always describe both the art and the science of working with different metals, as well as being surprised. Lots of factors
Generally, ‘Yes’: if you heat steel above a certain temperature and cool it quickly, it will become hard (maybe brittle). Cool it slow and it will become softer.
But the grinding wheel is not a torch, and the cutter does not cool uniformly.
You can try this yourself. Take an old, scrap piece of chain and hold the grinding wheel in place for several seconds, until the cutter turns blue, then black. Let it air cool, then try to file it. See what you find.
Normal grinding technique, with a well-dressed wheel, should never heat the chain that much.
Philbert
buttercup
Addicted to ArboristSite
I just like to stay on the positive side. brittle is good considering a cutting edge,
That is a big advantage of sharpening your own chains: doing them the way that you want!
Philbert
Philbert
No, it most certainly is not. You can't have a chainsaw tooth that will chip like a piece of glass. The cutter has to be tempered to be tough, not brittle, and you want it to hold its cutting edge as long as possible.
buttercup
Addicted to ArboristSite
So, you want the edge to bend or to be sharp edged - like broken glass?
You aren't getting this at all. There are different levels of hardness. Glass is very hard, can be very sharp but breaks easily. Its brittle. Steel, when heated and quenched, is very brittle and breaks easily. Once its quenched it needs to be tempered down to the proper hardness like a knife blade. A proper cutter is tough and sharp but not brittle. Why would you think the edge would bend?
Yotaismygame
Juiced Saws #GetJuiced
The Husky guide and Buckin taught me how to hand file. The guide teaches you how it should feel and look after. Eventually you can reciprocate that motion without it. The raker gauge is awesome and I use the full version not the tiny one that comes with the gauge. Eventually you figure out what depth the rakers need to be at for certain wood if you're trying to maximize cut times and keep the saw in its sweet spot. I bought a used Simington square grinder and ended up rarely using it because that in itself has a huge learning curve and unless you frequently sharpen chains there just no need for it. I sold that grinder about 10 months after buying it.
I am wondering about this too. He said he does each side for 15 minutes apiece then another 15 on the "riders" assuming he means depth gauges. So that is 45 minutes of sharpening. But how many loops during that time?
Judging by your later post, I am not about to argue that point.
I have to agree that a good job takes time. I am most efficient when I can 'sharpen' chains in batches 5 - 20 at a time. My process is detailed in the thread referenced below. For a 'full service' job I clean, dry, inspect, repair (burrs, missing cutters, ham-fisted field repairs, etc.), sharpen / even out the cutters, clean out the gullets, adjust the depth gauges, round them over if needed, re-lube the chains. More of a 'chain spa'.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/
It probably takes me about 15 minutes per chain, working in a batch. Longer, if I have to set everything up for one loop, or if a chain comes in really messed up. If it is my personal chain, or a pretty clean loop, I don't have to do all those things, and it takes less time. If someone is challenging me, and the grinder is set up, I can probably sharpen the cutters on a 16" to 20" loop in 3 to 4 minutes.
I don't do this for money, because it would be hard to do this and compete with the $5 to $7 that a lot of places charge. If I am doing it only for my satisfaction, it is not a big deal.
The reason I commented on this is that a number of guys have posted on using jets of compressed air, or even a water drip system*, to keep cutters cool. I don't think that is necessary if you frequently dress the grinding wheels so that you are always using fresh, sharp, abrasive. If your method works for you, then keep doing it (*most of these grinders and wheels are not intended to be used wet). More info on this grinding stuff in this thread:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/
Philbert
Spottedgum
ArboristSite Lurker
I might cop some crap for this but there doesn't seem to be anyone else who uses the old "oregon file jig".
Clamps to the bar, you set the angle, depth and degrees off flat, then hand file precisely. Flip it around and do the other side. You can even set to file the rakers.
In the bush you simply touch up the edges with a squinty hand file as required. At the end of the day you clean down the saw, filter, and sharpen on the jig.
Keeps everything precise, and sharpens without heating.
Yes it takes longer - but it's peaceful and relaxing way to end the day with a beer and the radio in the shed. "Chainsaw therapy"
Clamps to the bar, you set the angle, depth and degrees off flat, then hand file precisely. Flip it around and do the other side. You can even set to file the rakers.
In the bush you simply touch up the edges with a squinty hand file as required. At the end of the day you clean down the saw, filter, and sharpen on the jig.
Keeps everything precise, and sharpens without heating.
Yes it takes longer - but it's peaceful and relaxing way to end the day with a beer and the radio in the shed. "Chainsaw therapy"
The instructions are confusing for some, but helps get very accurate, very sharp, very consistent cutters.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/
Philbert
Rule of thumb for medium grade steel which means it is a few steps above mild steel as far as carbon content is concern3ed and that is to quench steel to cool it rapidly for an increase in hardness. To soften steel raise temperature approaching 2000 F and let cool very slowly. The process for tempering is to raise temperature to 800 F to 1200 F and quench. Repeat process using a lesser temperature and quench. Systematically repeat process until you only heat to 400 or 500 F. I really do not know to what extent, but at least some of my chain are chrome plated which makes the outside edge a little harder for a long lasting edge.
A non skillful person with a grinder could destroy a chain pretty quick. Just the same with a person with a file could turn a chain into junk. I am sure there are many people who sharpen many different ways but with great results. There are some weeks where as I cut more than 40 hrs in a week then cut only 4 hrs the next week. So some how sharpening must be done. I really really dislike sharpening other peoples chain. I dislike sharpening my own. If Philbert would sell most people that are near him 20 chains so he could always be maintaining about 10 then there would not be a big need to discuss chain requirements. However like a lot of things it has to be figured out. It has been said many times that each OP must decide the right process for their needs and go with it. No matter what to get good at making chips fly one must get accomplished at making chains sharp. Thanks
No matter what when grinding a chain with a good amount of skill the chain will come out very consistent. A file job will not often do that, but with a hand file job it will be good, but not perfect. Today I was cutting a 40'' Pine Log and after about six cuts chain started arcing to the right. I knew that I hit some thing. As I was sharpening I had to guess about how much material to take off the side that was not nicked. So an example of some guess work with hand filing. The good part is a hand filed chain will often last longer than a machined ground job, but not quite as consistent as a grinder. Thanks
buttercup
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ok, anyway what I do is simply to make sure the metal never gets hot, if I get a sizzling sound when I apply my wet cloth I ease the pressure on the wheel or apply it for a shorter time.
What ever gives you good results...
What ever gives you good results...
It is difficult to go through a chain and not get some teeth hot. I used to use a spray bottle in one hand while running the grinder with another. It was a small pressurized tank that could be filled with compressed air with a mixture of lubricant and water. Thanks
There’s an old boy here who grinds his chains with the chain slightly submerged in bar oil. The wheel flings oil but it hits a backing plate and drains back into a sump. It’s a handmade contraption and having read this thread I’ve thought about it a bit. When he told me about it I was far from interested 
Not me. After taking so long to learn how to file and get great results decades ago, nobody is going to touch one of my chains.
It's a self pride thing.
I have the perferred version of the stihl tool and it's a nice rig. A couple swipes after a tank and good to go. I still end up with a saw cutting crooked though.
