simmington sharpener

[chainmailer]

Hello guys, I have an opportunity to pick up a simmington model 450 for a good price! Havent found to much info on them! Does any one have an opinion on this unit? Also it needs diamond dressers any one know if these are still avail and if so where I might find them? Any help is appreciated thx!

 

[pbilly]

if it is the first model of 450 it isnt as adjustable as the 451 but still a great grinder and you could but an adjustable arm for it. yes dressers are still available at madsens for 30 bucks or so madsens has the grinding wheels too

 

[chainmailer]

if it is the first model of 450 it isnt as adjustable as the 451 but still a great grinder and you could but an adjustable arm for it. yes dressers are still available at madsens for 30 bucks or so madsens has the grinding wheels too

Thx Pbilly for the info! Would Madsen's be the place for the adjustable arm also?

 

[pbilly]

you might be able to get one there if not you could get it from saw creek industries where simingtons grinders are made

 

[pbilly]

you might be able to get one there if not you could get it from saw creek industries where simingtons grinders are made

 

[pbilly]

you're welcome. you might be able to get a new swing arm there if not you could get it from saw creek industries where simingtons grinders are made. i think a new arm is fairly cheep

 

[pbilly]

this site kept saying that an error so i replied several times

 

[blades]

You can also get dressers from machine tool supply houses, just need to know the OD of the original. Rather than a single point as supplied a multi point for the top side dresser would work a little better. single point is fine for the vertical edge.

 

[pbilly]

i would get a grinding wheel dresser brick to knock down most of the bulk of a new stone to save your diamond dresser

 

[northmanlogging]

Madsens for the dressing rods,

I run an old 12v 450 Simmington

Madsens can get you a fair amount of spare parts for them, the 450s are getting ancient but still use a lot of the same parts as the 451's though some stuff will look different, they do the same job and bolt up.

I don't bother with the dressing brick, the stones aren't that hard and it only takes a few minutes to knock the heavy stuff off with the single point dresser, I've yet to replace a dressing tool in 5? years, just don't expect to take it all off in one whack. Dressing a grinding wheel takes takes a little time and finesse, run the dresser across the stone slowly and repeatedly with a little positive pressure on the pivot until it doesn't make any dust or noise, otherwise you'll have weird humps lumps and curves... the idea is to have a perfect plane... Also, the leading edge of the stone works better if its a little tall... cutting into the side plates isn't the end of the world, leaving the side of the cutter unsharpened is... its really easy to make it a little too pointy... also means that you need to file the "gullets" every time, which is stupid if you can find a way not to. (whats the point of a grinder if you still have to mess with file?)

big thing is getting the machine set up right, there is inherent differences from one side to the other, shimming the motor will be required to get it to run true on both sides.

Put a little German torque on the wheel when you first install, normally you finger tighten grinding wheels, most grinders don't have reverse though... so a little extra, not enough to crush or crack the stone but enough so it don't unwind itself in revers.

The only real problems i've seen with any of them, a buddy picked up a "new" 451b but it was missing the retaining clip things on the adjusting screws so they would vibrate and screw up every 3-4th tooth... he'd also dropped it and broke the tooth stop so its more or less his fault, but something to look into.

As for the adjustable arm, meh, It would be nice I guess but I've gotten pretty good results with the fixed arm mine came with, and its a lot more stable... the adjustable ones just have more **** that can go wrong and you end up more or less at the same adjustments as the fixed one anyway.

Madsens again on the wheels, though any saw shop worth its signage will have wheels out here, the radiac brand used to be pacific grinding... same building, (they are local to me) make a pretty skookum product, though for a year or two there they dropped the ball, the new stuff has been spot on.... anyway, I prefer the white wheel, or in a pinch the "salmon" the pink wheels are ****, the grey wheels or for folks that like to polish after wiping... and the wax embedded can be left in the garbage can where they belong... with proper dressing even the coarsest wheel will leave a near mirror finish.

 

[pbilly]

the main thung about having the adjustable arm is the ability to change the inside angles of the cutter. as the cutter gets worn down from sharpening the angle changes just enough for it to be noticably not as sharp or wont cut as well as it did even though its been ground and sharp the angle is a little different. you can compensate for it with the adjustable arm. i like the salmon or white wheels too the blue one are nice and work really good but they cost twice as much. with the adjustable arm you have more choices for the kind of cutter you want to make

 

[northmanlogging]

the main thung about having the adjustable arm is the ability to change the inside angles of the cutter. as the cutter gets worn down from sharpening the angle changes just enough for it to be noticably not as sharp or wont cut as well as it did even though its been ground and sharp the angle is a little different. you can compensate for it with the adjustable arm. i like the salmon or white wheels too the blue one are nice and work really good but they cost twice as much. with the adjustable arm you have more choices for the kind of cutter you want to make

Meh, the old arm has 2 positions, room for three if your careful with a drill and tap, it would cover just about everything practical.

I think a lot of folks, like to think they have their own best recipe for "maximum" efficiency, but if we were to start comparing notes, we might find the results are about the same. Simmington "the guy that designed these" was a smart cookie even if he was just some farmer from Oregon, the first iterations while crude in some aspects being sand cast and all, were good enough that Silvey plagiarized them. And they are still being sold today. So I think that the mega adjustable swing arm was really just a response to people ******** and throwing money at them.

you have 2 options for chain type, longevity, or aggressiveness, you can try to get a happy medium but its a lousy compromise, and I think Mr. Simmington understood that which is why there are only 2 settings on the older arms. Even the side and top plate angles only really work in a very narrow window too much one way or the other and things start fighting against themselves, I'm talking like 2-3 degrees.

Anyway, its your money spend it how you like.

 

[northmanlogging]

the main thung about having the adjustable arm is the ability to change the inside angles of the cutter. as the cutter gets worn down from sharpening the angle changes just enough for it to be noticably not as sharp or wont cut as well as it did even though its been ground and sharp the angle is a little different. you can compensate for it with the adjustable arm. i like the salmon or white wheels too the blue one are nice and work really good but they cost twice as much. with the adjustable arm you have more choices for the kind of cutter you want to make

Also I might add, the cutters wear should not effect the angles, as the tooth is ground at the same point on the grinder, however the wheel getting worn down does have some minor effect on side plate angle, but not enough for me to bother with trying to correct. Especially since most of the cutting is don on the top plate, the side plate really only serves to clear the chip away. Much like all this talk you'll hear about "getting the gullet" (which applies more to round filed chains) and side plates etc etc etc

The side plate only effects about .035" deep and maybe .015" wide of the wood being cut, the rest being cut by the top plate.

 

[chainmailer]

Thx Pbilly for the info! Would Madsen's be the place for the adjustable arm also?

5g

 

[chainmailer]

Thx everyone! For info! So was able to pick it up! Its gonna need some things like a stand! Seems pretty straight forward! The videos I have seen most were of the standing type as opposed to bench type! It seems to me the stand up type would be easier to see everything better! So will build one! Also as mentioned there is no dressers and on one of the two arms that came with it one is missing the piece that the chain rides in that mimicks a bar! And the is a couple of wire that are cut off and taped off coming out of the switch housing! ( im assuming it is for a light to see how bad your destroying your first chain! Lol) also has a blue wheel on it that looks to be not brand new but fairly new im guessing! Someone said there were two types of chain what are they? I guess I better reread it but I didnt think they said what they were and which one was better for me with this prehistoric grinder I have! Lol ill probably never be a world class sharpener but ill be saving that 15-20 dollars a chain I be paying at my local saw shop! Thx again everyone for your time and info!

 

[chainmailer]

reread it and it does say! I would like to lean more to the aggressive side but in reality longevity is probably the best choice for most of the older saws I run but I have on or rwo that aggressive would be more fun! Happy New Year everyone!

 

[northmanlogging]

Thx everyone! For info! So was able to pick it up! Its gonna need some things like a stand! Seems pretty straight forward! The videos I have seen most were of the standing type as opposed to bench type! It seems to me the stand up type would be easier to see everything better! So will build one! Also as mentioned there is no dressers and on one of the two arms that came with it one is missing the piece that the chain rides in that mimicks a bar! And the is a couple of wire that are cut off and taped off coming out of the switch housing! ( im assuming it is for a light to see how bad your destroying your first chain! Lol) also has a blue wheel on it that looks to be not brand new but fairly new im guessing! Someone said there were two types of chain what are they? I guess I better reread it but I didnt think they said what they were and which one was better for me with this prehistoric grinder I have! Lol ill probably never be a world class sharpener but ill be saving that 15-20 dollars a chain I be paying at my local saw shop! Thx again everyone for your time and info!

madsens again for the chain guide, its sort of a wear item

the two, very basic, chains are round and square, you will need square for a chisel grinder. Then you have .050 or .063 gauge, the chain guide will be reversible to cover that.

Mine has some 2" plumbing pipe for a stand, all just threads together with a custom built top for the grinder to attach, and a custom 3 point for the bottom of the stand, fairly cheap to build one.

I'm not one to put lights on everything... but the shadow cast by even a small light helps line up the tooth and wheel corners, especially on the white stones.

All square grinders are only good for 3/8 and .404 pitch chains, while I'm fairly sure you could finagle a .325 in there, the results would be questionable.

Side plate needs a slight tip forward, and the top plate should end up 25-30 deg, the more forward tip the side plate has the more aggressive, balance that with "raker" height (ya still need to file those or get a cheapo round grinder...) Ignore the top plate secondary angle (looking straight down on the tooth) you want it to be as square as possible, but its gonna be tough to control it while maintaining a good cutting angle. This is one spot where the Simmingtons fall flat, but its negligible.

 

[pbilly]

you can get a stand base from saw creek industries for about 40 then just get a piece of pipe in a length that you like for preference. the blue wheel is the expensive one and a good wheel. if your chains are clean the corner stays crisp longer and you will be able to use it longer between dressings. there are instructions for set up and use on madsens website and saw creek has made some videos. here iz a few pics of mine so you can see what you are missing.

 

[pbilly]

the picture of the base is the 40 dollar one from saw creek madsens doesnt carry them. it would be very easy to make if you have a welder. i got a piece of pipe 6ft long so i coukd have a piece of pipe in a block that i could set on my tailgate of my truck to do the shimming of the motor since i dont really have a bench in my garage and have my pipe set at a height that puts the wheel just below my eyes so im not bending over to sharpen chains.