Someone started cutting a tree down for us and hasn't finished the job

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Look at the rope, obviously a hack job... not sure how bad the back lean was, but damn, that rope...
That yellow shît? That was buddy's, wasn't it. Don't think it was too much of a lean. Funny bull rope, though. Lots of holding wood to my standard by the looks of it. Thing is the tree can't progress forward unless the back fibers all break first. (From a Faller's point of view) Therefore they need to be cut. Slight forward leaning, this could cause a barber chair. Backwards leaning..I have wedged trees with too much holdings wood leaning over structures and they start to split maybe 1 1/2" up. Difference is one is like a nuclear explosion and the other resembles nuclear energy.
Just the very slightest differences in the ingredients & one is a slow rumble and the other a BOOM.
A will take a strong back leaner any day. At least the tree will talk to you first.
 
What are you guys thoughts on the stump.? How was the holding wood? Would it had fell unwelcomelly with or without wedges in the back cut? Why are the fibers pulling to the left of pic and the corner of back cut got smashed up? Was that where the truck could go? They could have cut the branches in order to use the truck and pull it off the 'extended direction of aim'?

Thoughts? because it's bedtime in London Town.

Check in tomorrow,

That is certainly a 7 1/2" K&H wedge (for reference) looks to be a 12" next to it.
I'm wondering how deep the 2nd kerf is in the backcut? Big no no for driving wedges. I'd say that there was enough wood, but it looks like the wrong side was favored (looks like the left side of tree has the weight and the stump was cut up more on the right side). I could see that as a problem if he had more wedges in it, starting to pull the corner apart. If he repeatedly broke ropes trying to pull it & it didn't break when it sat back, I'd say that it could've been tipped. In any case, a guy would know whether or not it was gonna go or pop off of the stump if he decided to load up on wedges, or a ram.
It's just really hard to get an idea as to how much back/side lean there was. Done right, I still think it could've been an easy kill.
 

So
I'm wondering how deep the 2nd kerf is in the backcut? Big no no for driving wedges. I'd say that there was enough wood, but it looks like the wrong side was favored (looks like the left side of tree has the weight and the stump was cut up more on the right side). I could see that as a problem if he had more wedges in it, starting to pull the corner apart. If he repeatedly broke ropes trying to pull it & it didn't break when it sat back, I'd say that it could've been tipped. In any case, a guy would know whether or not it was gonna go or pop off of the stump if he decided to load up on wedges, or a ram.
It's just really hard to get an idea as to how much back/side lean there was. Done right, I still think it could've been an easy kill.
Yeah. Double cutting your back cut where wedges go, makes for a poor technique.
You think stump was cut up more on right side of picture? I don't think so. Or right side from the house you mean? He put a 'letter box' on the 'safe side' no? (Left side of pic) not that he is any authority) if that's what you are thinking then what's your indicator?
 
@Weatboastfaller
Yeah. From the pics of the tree, it LOOKED like the majority of the back/side weight was in the 6‐9:00 area behind the stump in orientation to the face @ 12:00. Again, LOOKED. The other side of the hinge he favored, I'm sure with the house in mind. Hey he had the right idea there at least. I can't say if he ever saw the pull side start to widen due to him never getting his wedges driving. It does look like the house corner pulled & the opposite side compressed. A straight hinge, of half of the size of the big side, might've been a better deal.. Can't be sure of it obviously, but I think he had way to much wood on the side he favored. In my head, 3/4", well that may be a little conservative, 1.5" of wood across the face would've been enough. The good thing about having a plan is that a guy can scratch away if things dont seem right. As you mentioned, it's work trying to stand up & tip a tree with to much wood. Doesn't it look like the letterbox side pulled?
 
The wedges are not in the same position they were in the first set of pictures. There was a lot of white sticking out in the first set of pictures so we probably cannot rely on those in the assessment. Then again, without being able to assess the double back cut, it could be that the crew that finished the job drove the wedges deeper which helped them pull it over.

I suspect that where the hinge was cut away it was a mistake... overcut and out of alignment with the cut from the other side... and not an intentional effort to swing the tree.

Alas... with just a few photos and not being there all this is speculation!

739628-0258af491941c6349050bd413f5dd4a2.jpg742396-545e3b9fbca8f1cd963c39fa48d15bc5.jpg
 
The wedges are not in the same position they were in the first set of pictures. There was a lot of white sticking out in the first set of pictures so we probably cannot rely on those in the assessment. Then again, without being able to assess the double back cut, it could be that the crew that finished the job drove the wedges deeper which helped them pull it over.

I suspect that where the hinge was cut away it was a mistake... overcut and out of alignment with the cut from the other side... and not an intentional effort to swing the tree.

Alas... with just a few photos and not being there all this is speculation!

View attachment 1058330View attachment 1058331


Glossing over the other issues...That's a pretty beefy hinge, even for pulling. Is this common with ash for safety?
 
Yeah, 5 trees ain't enough.

I put in a bid to remove a dead pine about 6-7 years ago. I've been grimacing for the last couple of years, every time I drove past it, tracking the decay and dreading the job. The cemetery finally told me to hurry remove it! There was going to be a funeral right beneath it.

Knowing how long it had been dead, I was scared of working beneath it. I set a rope on one branch about 40 feet up, then hooked it to my tractor, figuring to break it off and minimize my risk while standing below it.

Nope! The branch wouldn't break. Neither would the bark-falling-off tree trunk with the giant hollow spaces we could see through to daylight.

I uprooted that tree, and left a pretty big gaping hole about 6 feet wide and 3 feet deep.
Well, you saved the grave diggers some work.
 
:laughing: A little bit, but not in the way you might think.

When they were digging the gravesite, the hole I made from removing the tree would have reduced the amount of dirt they hauled off, and conveniently gave them a nearby source of dirt to fill the hole with.
Otherwise they would have had to haul in some dirt to fix the mess I made uprooting the tree.
 
Glossing over the other issues...That's a pretty beefy hinge, even for pulling. Is this common with ash for safety?

I've found that with ash it depends... This tree still had a lot of small branches on it so it was still relatively sound and a hinge about 1/10 the diameter is fine. The fact that the ropes broke before the stem snapped off above the hinge also also supports the notion the tree was sound. This hinge is tall due to the relatively high back cut but I don't think it's particularly thick. Below is the photo the OP posted that shows the hinge after the first guy abandoned the job. We don't know if the higher back cut was a scoring cut or if it was a deep cut. There is some evidence of other scoring cuts above the top one... suggesting he had trouble with positioning and angling the back cut.

When I'm cutting ash that is significantly deteriorated I tend to make the hinge thinner with hopes that the tree stays together. I'm also loathe to try to make them fall significantly off their natural lean. I don't dog the saw in and lean on it either... I let the saw cut gently to avoid significant vibration. I don't bang wedges if rotten as the vibration can cause things to fall off, but I'll palm one to preserve the kerf if needed. I never try to rope them over as the tree is too likely to break off mid-stem. I have been known to push a tree over with my hands if it just needs a nudge. If a tree is really bad I've cut other trees to knock them over. In extremely rotten cases, when safe to do so, I leave trees to fall on their own--I'm typically cutting in the woods so worries about wires, buildings, roads, cars, etc. don't exist. I generally find them down after storms so it's unlikely anyone out walking or bicycling would have been around when they fell.

740903-1786f9db5eff12424ef193135e60a73c.jpg
 
after all that what sort of dirt did you end up with?and just curious what happened to the wood from this job? just scrounging around for a similiar piece to this one, I can see why they put the fences around the graveyard as people are just simply dying to get in, preserves the wood even better.
 

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after all that what sort of dirt did you end up with?and just curious what happened to the wood from this job? just scrounging around for a similiar piece to this one, I can see why they put the fences around the graveyard as people are just simply dying to get in, preserves the wood even better.
Walnut or Persimmon ?
 
:laughing: A little bit, but not in the way you might think.

When they were digging the gravesite, the hole I made from removing the tree would have reduced the amount of dirt they hauled off, and conveniently gave them a nearby source of dirt to fill the hole with.
Otherwise they would have had to haul in some dirt to fix the mess I made uprooting the tree.

after all that what sort of dirt did you end up with?and just curious what happened to the wood from this job? just scrounging around for a similiar piece to this one, I can see why they put the fences around the graveyard as people are just simply dying to get in, preserves the wood even better.
 

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Wow. I could be a tree guy. Slap a saw against a healthy tree. Tell the homeowner it's hollow and I need more equipment. Demand 100% payment up front and disappear. Easy gig.
 
Wow. I could be a tree guy. Slap a saw against a healthy tree. Tell the homeowner it's hollow and I need more equipment. Demand 100% payment up front and disappear. Easy gig.
You're ready to work around here. That is exactly the calls I used to get for others that prcatice organized hit and run tree work. I just walk away even if it's leaning on a building or their house. I tell them to get someone bonded and notify the local authorities to give them all the info you have.

Good Luck is my parting gift to them free of charge.
 
Hello! I am worried about a 80 foot dead ash tree in my yard, and I would appreciate any advice about what we should do at this point. A tree person with 10 years experience sawed through and roped off this tree for removal, but he has never come back to finish the job (pull it into the forest). He left twice when two different ropes snapped (the same ropes I assume are securing the tree right now). He left a third time to order a new part for his pulley system, and that was six days ago. Meanwhile, the tree base has been chainsawed, although I don't know how far through. He said that it is hollow in the middle, so I'm assuming there isn't much left to saw. He placed two wedges in the cut side (the side facing our house), and we can see ropes coming from the tree. We feel like he will eventually return because he works for a reputable tree company (we hired him on the side - he works with our neighbor), and he left his equipment here. My issue is, how secure is this tree in the meantime? Is this common practice or outrageous behavior (I feel like it's a bit outrageous to saw through a tree then disappear for a week). Are we being idiots for waiting patiently? Should be be calling in an emergency tree removal service? This tree is sitting on a ledge and would probably fall into the forest, but if it swung our way (and the ropes snapped), it would definitely fall on our house. Thank you in advance for any helpful information!

On Friday, he said he would be here on Saturday, but he didn't show up yesterday. He has not responded to today's text (Sunday) about when he will be back. We have remained very neutral because he is a kind person, we just feel like he overwhelmed himself in order to create quick income. We paid him half upfront, which we were comfortable with, given that he has cut down trees in the neighborhood and works for our neighbor. But, when he needed a new pulley part, he asked for the other half, and we paid that. We should have never hired a friend of a friend, but we really couldn't afford the other quotes and his was within our affordable range. We had no idea it would be such a struggle for him. He originally came out and tied a bunch of ropes but then said that he needed to bring back a helper. Then, he showed up alone days later and just started sawing and re-roping the tree by himself.
I've noticed that about the tree workers I've hired. They act so sad and give you a sob story about needing money up front. When they are on the job, they are so nice to you and you begin to believe they are kind folks. Don't trust them. I have recent personal experience that many of these guys will do the work if you still owe them money. As soon as you pay them everything up front, they put you off. At first, they text you excuses of why they can't finish. Then, if you press them, they quit texting altogether.
 
I've noticed that about the tree workers I've hired. They act so sad and give you a sob story about needing money up front. When they are on the job, they are so nice to you and you begin to believe they are kind folks. Don't trust them. I have recent personal experience that many of these guys will do the work if you still owe them money. As soon as you pay them everything up front, they put you off. At first, they text you excuses of why they can't finish. Then, if you press them, they quit texting altogether.
Never pay upfront and don't use them if they ask, that suggests crack heads or Meth heads to me !
 

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