Stihl 025 quirks

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Leafman42

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First, thanks to everyone who contributes this forum. It's a gold mine of info! I've read so many threads collecting troubleshooting advice on the issue I'm having with my Stihl 025, but haven't quite narrowed down the issue yet. It would be great if I could get the voice of experience to weigh on. Scenario as follows: I picked up a used Stihl 025 chainsaw, and it ran OK, perhaps not perfect, but was able to start, cut through some minor logs for the campfire, etc. Noticed it seemed to stutter and stall out when left to idle for very long, but OK, a minor issue for another day. Fast forward to today, and I was cutting up some larger diameter logs, around 15". I notice that it seems to bog down a little bit easily at wide-open throttle and not have as much top-end as I would expect. Quite a bit of smoke, making me suspect it was running a little rich, but it's a two-stroke of course, so it's hard to say without much history of using this saw. Suddenly, it stalls altogether, and I can't restart it. Full-throttle with the tip of my toe, partial choke and part-throttle, full choke -- nothing works. Coincidentally (or not?), it was also starting to rain, so I put the saw in the relatively dry garage, and take a break for 30 minutes, hoping that if it's flooded (fuel, not the rain), it'll restart a little later. No luck. After researching some online and on this forum, I saw some notes about the fuel tank vent being a potential issue, so tried loosening the cap and starting, which mostly just made a minor mess. I took the plug out, and it looked OK, neither particularly wet or dry. Checked the gap and it seems fine. Still wouldn't start. I noticed where the choke valve is, there is some gas coming back out from the carb itself, so it seems to be getting fuel in there already, no real need to test by dripping some in there manually. I took the plug back out, dried it off as well as the cylinder with some compressed air, put it back together, and it sputtered to life! Great! Maybe it was just flooded after all. Shut the it off with the switch, got my hearing protection and other PPE, walked back around the house, started it up again, made one cut (20 seconds or so at full throttle), kind of smokey, and it died again, and wouldn't restart. I realized the little tube that is the fuel tank vent just pulls right off, so I took that off in case it was blocked internally. Re-dried the plug and cylinder within practical limits, gas it full throttle with the switch in the normal run position, and it fired up enough to rev it 2-3 times, then it dies again. Situation repeats over and over. Will let it sit overnight and see how it acts in the morning, but I'm guessing from experience it'll start cold with full choke, partial choke, a little throttle, etc., then stall after a couple minutes of use, maybe so rich it's flooding out. Thoughts?

Secondary issue: It seems like the bar oil is ending up on the bottom of the storage case slowly over time, and not as well on the bar itself. Do I likely just need a new oil tube for that?
 
Yeah, sounds like a carb issue.
But first, get a 5/16 nutdriver, remove the muffler and look at the piston. Put up some pics of that, and a pic of the air filter area with the filter cover off.
 
Yeah, sounds like a carb issue.
But first, get a 5/16 nutdriver, remove the muffler and look at the piston. Put up some pics of that, and a pic of the air filter area with the filter cover off.

I can do that! What specifically am I looking for on the piston and the air filter area?
 
I believe also that you may have lost compression. Try holding the pull cord handle and let the saw fall. I suspect it will drop and the engine's compression will not hold it in place. That's a rough compression test, but it's a clue that a top-end rebuild with a piston and cylinder kit is in order. I've done this for several 025's and afterwards they start and run again. Your saw could easily be 20 years old. Unfortunately, for a clamshell engine, it means a major takedown to rebuild the top end. The service manual will show you how to do it. Good Luck!
 
Apologies for the file size there on the last post, and the last of photographic excellence, but it captures a few things. The piston looked really clean and good inside. Like new, really. Pulling it up and down made a nice squishy noise. With everything sealed back up, the compression feels good. I know that's not a substitute for a real compression test with a gauge, but it feels like a normal engine, and like it did when it did run, so I don't think lack of compression is a problem on this. With the spark plug out, for instance, it feels completely loose, but it's got enough compression normally that I'd actually hesitate to drop-start it, and prefer it to be pinned to the ground with my foot. Notably, there is a bit of oil coming out the muffler, and around the edge of where the muffler seals up against the engine, but not sure how much of that is to be expected on a 2-stroke.
 
First, thanks to everyone who contributes this forum. It's a gold mine of info! I've read so many threads collecting troubleshooting advice on the issue I'm having with my Stihl 025, but haven't quite narrowed down the issue yet. It would be great if I could get the voice of experience to weigh on. Scenario as follows: I picked up a used Stihl 025 chainsaw, and it ran OK, perhaps not perfect, but was able to start, cut through some minor logs for the campfire, etc. Noticed it seemed to stutter and stall out when left to idle for very long, but OK, a minor issue for another day. Fast forward to today, and I was cutting up some larger diameter logs, around 15". I notice that it seems to bog down a little bit easily at wide-open throttle and not have as much top-end as I would expect. Quite a bit of smoke, making me suspect it was running a little rich, but it's a two-stroke of course, so it's hard to say without much history of using this saw. Suddenly, it stalls altogether, and I can't restart it. Full-throttle with the tip of my toe, partial choke and part-throttle, full choke -- nothing works. Coincidentally (or not?), it was also starting to rain, so I put the saw in the relatively dry garage, and take a break for 30 minutes, hoping that if it's flooded (fuel, not the rain), it'll restart a little later. No luck. After researching some online and on this forum, I saw some notes about the fuel tank vent being a potential issue, so tried loosening the cap and starting, which mostly just made a minor mess. I took the plug out, and it looked OK, neither particularly wet or dry. Checked the gap and it seems fine. Still wouldn't start. I noticed where the choke valve is, there is some gas coming back out from the carb itself, so it seems to be getting fuel in there already, no real need to test by dripping some in there manually. I took the plug back out, dried it off as well as the cylinder with some compressed air, put it back together, and it sputtered to life! Great! Maybe it was just flooded after all. Shut the it off with the switch, got my hearing protection and other PPE, walked back around the house, started it up again, made one cut (20 seconds or so at full throttle), kind of smokey, and it died again, and wouldn't restart. I realized the little tube that is the fuel tank vent just pulls right off, so I took that off in case it was blocked internally. Re-dried the plug and cylinder within practical limits, gas it full throttle with the switch in the normal run position, and it fired up enough to rev it 2-3 times, then it dies again. Situation repeats over and over. Will let it sit overnight and see how it acts in the morning, but I'm guessing from experience it'll start cold with full choke, partial choke, a little throttle, etc., then stall after a couple minutes of use, maybe so rich it's flooding out. Thoughts?

Secondary issue: It seems like the bar oil is ending up on the bottom of the storage case slowly over time, and not as well on the bar itself. Do I likely just need a new oil tube for that?
A saw this old could be stiff diaphragms in the carb, cracked fuel line, air leak, etc.

Oiler is likely a plugged up bar oil hole/bar or crud between the bar and the saw case. This area MUST be clean to get the oil properly to the bar.
 
A saw this old could be stiff diaphragms in the carb, cracked fuel line, air leak, etc.

Oiler is likely a plugged up bar oil hole/bar or crud between the bar and the saw case. This area MUST be clean to get the oil properly to the bar.
After looking at the photos the saw is definitely running rich. Start with an OEM carb rebuild kit. You need to figure out which carb is on the saw. Stihl used several depending on vintage.
 
I'm pretty well convinced it's the carb running rich. Is that something I have any hope of adjusting into compliance, or it's likely beyond those H/L speed jet adjustment screws? Also, I'm not seeing the OEM carb rebuilt kit online, though I'm sure a local STIHL dealer would have it for $10-15. That said, what do you think of some of the aftermarket kits out there? I appreciate the sanctity of OEM parts, but it's also true that this isn't exactly a collectible Rolls Royce Phantom -- I just need it to run again. Some of these kits on Amazon have the whole carb (no need to rebuild!), air cleaner, fuel filter, fuel and oil lines, spark plug, ignition coil, gaskets, all for $15-20. It's tempting! Does anyone have experience with any of those? Most of the reviews are pretty positive.
 
I'm pretty well convinced it's the carb running rich. Is that something I have any hope of adjusting into compliance, or it's likely beyond those H/L speed jet adjustment screws? Also, I'm not seeing the OEM carb rebuilt kit online, though I'm sure a local STIHL dealer would have it for $10-15. That said, what do you think of some of the aftermarket kits out there? I appreciate the sanctity of OEM parts, but it's also true that this isn't exactly a collectible Rolls Royce Phantom -- I just need it to run again. Some of these kits on Amazon have the whole carb (no need to rebuild!), air cleaner, fuel filter, fuel and oil lines, spark plug, ignition coil, gaskets, all for $15-20. It's tempting! Does anyone have experience with any of those? Most of the reviews are pretty positive.
Post the model of the existing carb. It is either a Walbro WT-xxx or Zama C1Q-Sxx. Adjustments are futile until you get the carb in good shape. Chinesium fuel system parts are unknown quantities. Personally, I won't go near them. So you are trying to sort out a possible carb issue with possibly faulty Chinesium parts. What's wrong with this picture?

Also while you are in there check (or just replace) the fuel line and pickup, with OEM, of course. Fuel lines are known to degrade inside the tank from corn gas and outside at the sharp bend where it exits the tank. Best to fix everything at once for a reliable saw.
 
My opinions.. I'm with @SteveSr on rebuilding the carb and replacing the fuel hose and filter. Replace the impulse hose along with the air filter. OEM Stihl is a good way to start for a known dependable product.

You have flooded it out pretty good as you said. Result is that dissolved some of the carbon looking like oil. Clean the muffler and spark screen.

The carb get a kit and follow instructions found on line how to rebuild it. Screw in the LA and H screws easily and count how much turn you had and write it down. When you put the carb back together put the Jet screws back the same amount out from seat and will get you a good starting point. As old as this saw is, the diaphragm has been worn out most likely and the needle jet is sticking allowing more fuel than needed and flooding. I think you should be pretty good after doing this maintenance.

As a side note your chain is in bad shape at the points. It is flatten over after hitting dirt or rock. A sharp chain will go a long way making the chainsaw run at better performance and longevity. Plenty of chain sharping post here on the forum to help.
 
Nice pics. I was hoping to get a view of the stuff beside and under the carb, to get a pic of the fuel line, condition of the air filter, vent, etc.
I would also recommend just getting a new carb, instead of trying to rebuild the old one. The Stihl dealer sells them pretty cheap.
 
Ok, carb work is complete, and the saw idles and runs at high speed OK. Progress!

On the bar oil front: I took the bar off, cleaned it all up, blew out the oil passages on it with compressed air, cleaned around it where the oil feeds from the saw into the bar, and now I definitely have bar oil on the chain. If I run it, I can see a visible spray of oil against a piece of cardboard off the end of the tip. But it still oozes out the bottom of the saw somewhere. Any tips of likely causes for this? To better see under the saw where I believe the oil line is, I started taking off the handle, and notice that oddly enough, when I took the cap off the handle-mount in that area, it was basically full of oil. Photos attached. Lots of oil collecting around the sprocket that drives the chain, too, but then maybe that's normal since the chain is being whipped around 180 degrees at the sprocket. In fact, maybe that's just a normal spot for oil to collect and drip down under the saw. That little white plastic part that's screwed in and connects to the oil tube (I'm guessing) looks pretty dry and clean, comparatively. Thoughts?

IMG_2649.jpgIMG_2650.jpg
 
The bar face and the saw face where the bar meets need to be clean as in no sawdust, chips, crud, etc. The bar (and oiling hole) must seal against that face or bar oil will dribble down the saw and collect as you have noted. The only other way to find any leak is to completely clean everything, let the saw sit for a couple of days and see if you can see any leaks.

The only other possible source is from the oil tank vent. It is that round silver thing in front of the front bar stud. Empty the oil tank and hit this with some carb or brake cleaner from the outside in. Obviously this can only leak if the oil level in the tank is above the vent.
 
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