Stihl 044 questions, new piston required.

[freeasaburt]

Looking at the IPL (attached), I might have found some interesting things, maybe answers to some questions even.

On page 8, two types of exhausts are displayed (I have the left one, it has a cage over the exhaust port, 3 big round holes towards the front cover, and a side exit. However, there was no gasket between the two halves of the exhaust, in my case, unless I'm mistaken). But also displayed is a 'cooling plate' (#13), which seems to be missing from my saw.

Also on page 8, it is shown that there's two types of base gasket (#9 and #44). The saw had a pretty thick one, so I guess the one that's 1mm thick; maybe it should be the 1/2mm version, which would result in higher compression.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

The thing has a very strong ambition to rip my arm off

Believe it or not, my 044 rips the handle out of my fingers if I am not careful. But I am now using a different pulling technique with these larger saws than I use with weed wackers and my saws like 026.

 

[joe25DA]

You know you can drill the holes in the cylinder fins out a bit so the scrench will fit. I did that for years before I bought my Bohndus set.

I just did that on one of my 034s. I didn’t have my narrow torx set at work.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I just did that on one of my 034s. I didn’t have my narrow torx set at work.

Real easy.

 

[freeasaburt]

Believe it or not, my 044 rips the handle out of my fingers if I am not careful. But I am now using a different pulling technique with these larger saws than I use with weed wackers and my saws like 026.

The 026 is super easy to drop start, but I don't manage to do that with the 066. Although it's definitely possible (saw the previous owner doing it), just haven't found the right technique yet... I put a decomp in it as the 660 cylinder has a hole for that, doesn't help though, it just closes when I pull. I'm sure I'll figure it out at some point though.

Looking at the IPL (attached), I might have found some interesting things, maybe answers to some questions even.

On page 8, two types of exhausts are displayed (I have the left one, it has a cage over the exhaust port, 3 big round holes towards the front cover, and a side exit. However, there was no gasket between the two halves of the exhaust, in my case, unless I'm mistaken). But also displayed is a 'cooling plate' (#13), which seems to be missing from my saw.

Also on page 8, it is shown that there's two types of base gasket (#9 and #44). The saw had a pretty thick one, so I guess the one that's 1mm thick; maybe it should be the 1/2mm version, which would result in higher compression.

Does anyone know more about these 2 different gaskets? as the thick (1mm) one is grouped together with the parts specific for the 10mm version, I would actually guess that that's the one intended to be on my model saw, but I'm not sure (also, installing the 1/2mm version could be benificial, not sure).

I asked around for a donor saw on facebook and a guy working for a tree service said they have an ms441 lying around, the spark plug apparently flew out ruining the threads!? They put an AM cylinder on it but it never made good power again. I can come pick it up for 2 crates of beer, he said, have to drive to the Netherlands (couple of hours) for it though. I'm guessing it's a different crank, but I'm tempted to get it anyway, as a parts saw or maybe even (have to inspect it first) to try and rebuild it... Good learning experience.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Real easy.

LOL. Never thought about it. The first saw I did was an 028 and I actually ground the shaft down on a wrench I bought at Sears on a bench grinder.

 

[pioneerguy600]

LOL. Never thought about it. The first saw I did was an 028 and I actually ground the shaft down on a wrench I bought at Sears on a bench grinder.

I could never comprehend the reason why folks are scared to. It`s aluminum and drills so easily.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

The 026 is super easy to drop start, but I don't manage to do that with the 066. Although it's definitely possible (saw the previous owner doing it), just haven't found the right technique yet... I put a decomp in it as the 660 cylinder has a hole for that, doesn't help though, it just closes when I pull. I'm sure I'll figure it out at some point though.

Yep you are right, but I seldom drop start a saw, but prefer the step on the handle and pull method shown in the Stihl manual. When I got my first saw in 1994, I read the manual to learn the 026 from scratch. However, I could not understand how to get a good step with my foot inside that small space in the handle hole. It always seemed too small for my boot to fit in. ( Way different than the larger holes on my 075 and 051 saws.

As luck would have it as I began to acquire more and larger saws, I met some pro fellers and forestry fire fighting saw men from Montana who tell me they put a saw on the log and pull with their left hand. I always pull righty and it always seemed awkward having to step on the 026 with left foot and then pull in the odd angle with my right hand. I can see how it all makes sense in working with larger saws. I definitely can't see drop starting one of these bad boys except with the techniques I learned from my Montana bros as it rests on a log.

One other thing I learned and gave a chance, I learned from a woman who runs a saw and equipment shop. She demonstrated a cool tip on pulling a saw partially through the compression cycles about 3 times and then when it is just so, give it that good pull. She states that in almost every hard to start 2 stroke, she can get just about every one to start at that point. This method reminds me of my natural instinct from when I kick start my dirtbike.

 

[freeasaburt]

Because of safety reasons, and the fact that I read the manual too, I started my 026 'the right way' for years. Drop starting only came later, it's easy and you don't have to look for a clean/level space for your bar.
Especially when the 064 is cold, I can usually only start it by putting some kind of stick or piece of broom handle through the front handle, put my left foot on it, and use both of my hands on the pull cord... Kinda ridiculous... Runs great though. Not that I start it often, I bought it for milling and the rare heavy work.
I think I saw the same video as you btw, by 'Chickanic'? I've seen some of her video's, and liked them. I tried to apply that method, with some success. In any case, applying the right amount of force when pulling is a bit of a tricky thing with that saw.

 

[lone wolf]

Yep you are right, but I seldom drop start a saw, but prefer the step on the handle and pull method shown in the Stihl manual. When I got my first saw in 1994, I read the manual to learn the 026 from scratch. However, I could not understand how to get a good step with my foot inside that small space in the handle hole. It always seemed too small for my boot to fit in. ( Way different than the larger holes on my 075 and 051 saws.

As luck would have it as I began to acquire more and larger saws, I met some pro fellers and forestry fire fighting saw men from Montana who tell me they put a saw on the log and pull with their left hand. I always pull righty and it always seemed awkward having to step on the 026 with left foot and then pull in the odd angle with my right hand. I can see how it all makes sense in working with larger saws. I definitely can't see drop starting one of these bad boys except with the techniques I learned from my Montana bros as it rests on a log.

One other thing I learned and gave a chance, I learned from a woman who runs a saw and equipment shop. She demonstrated a cool tip on pulling a saw partially through the compression cycles about 3 times and then when it is just so, give it that good pull. She states that in almost every hard to start 2 stroke, she can get just about every one to start at that point. This method reminds me of my natural instinct from when I kick start my dirtbike.

Yup them old 500cc Dirt Bikes in the winter would beat the **** out of my right foot. I once had the kickstarter lever stab my foot right through a sneaker. Yes I know you aint supposed to do that IDC!

 

[freeasaburt]

OEM parts are being shipped as we speak, already received some, but mainly for one of my 026's. Piston, gaskets,.. for the 044 should be here quite soon!
I definitely forgot some parts, like e.g. the little bent hose for the tank vent. Might order that one from a site with aftermarket parts.
No crank, yet, I'm curious what the result will be after reassembly and a pressure test. I will definitely run it for a little while and see how it goes, will most probably split the case later though.

Seems to me there's at least 3 exhaust versions; a 'European' one, with a 'cage' (with round holes) in front of the exhaust port, and a metal plate with 3 large holes in front of that; a version with a catalytic converter, which Stihl claims causes no power loss (kinda doubt that?), and a 'US' version which is basically empty.
Having the catalytic converter disintegrate can damage your engine, which sounds 'a bit' worrisome to me.
The 'European' version is clearly shown in this video (timestamped link):
I'm considering comparing the 'US' version to 'European' version at some point, but with an aftermarket (e.g. Hyway); does anyone know a good one? Links online usually only show the outside.
I'd rather not gut the oem 'Euro' exhaust.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Empty can with dual 3/4" outlets is what you want on an 044/ MS440

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Fill the recess where the spring is on the seal before installation. used this for many years with 0 issues.

Stihltech,

I know this is Husq, but since we are mentioning seals and I have heard cautionary warnings to be careful not to ruin a seal and spring while installing. HERE is a great visual of what a messed up one looks like. watch the vid at about 15:46+

 

[freeasaburt]

I have been playing around with my new toy, the MS441C-M lately, but at least I've been cleaning up the cylinder a bit. Some parts of the diy exhaust gasket were determined not to let go, there was also quite some carbon.
Outside looks pretty clean now, got all the crud out from around the spark plug hole and between the fins etc. Inside looks way better too already, but there's still a bit of carbon at the top of the cylinder and two lines of transfer, one at the exhaust port and one at the intake, that I can still feel with my fingernail, although barely.
I mainly used scotchbrite untill now, but I'm gonna have to switch to something that's a bit coarser, I guess. But I'll have to be careful, CSCC (acres internet) specifies the 044 has a chrome plated bore, which at least according to Tinman isn't as resilient as nikasil.

 

[joe25DA]

I have been playing around with my new toy, the MS441C-M lately, but at least I've been cleaning up the cylinder a bit. Some parts of the diy exhaust gasket were determined not to let go, there was also quite some carbon.
Outside looks pretty clean now, got all the crud out from around the spark plug hole and between the fins etc. Inside looks way better too already, but there's still a bit of carbon at the top of the cylinder and two lines of transfer, one at the exhaust port and one at the intake, that I can still feel with my fingernail, although barely.
I mainly used scotchbrite untill now, but I'm gonna have to switch to something that's a bit coarser, I guess. But I'll have to be careful, CSCC (acres internet) specifies the 044 has a chrome plated bore, which at least according to Tinman isn't as resilient as nikasil.

I’ve been cleaning up a bore on an 036. That bore is harder than a coffin nail. I followed masterminds setup. Made a mandrel on my lathe to fit the chuck on my dremel flex shaft and hit it with 180, 220, 400. I had to push harder than I thought to have it remove the transfer too. Did no damage at all spinning at 13000 rpm with 180. Just have to polish with some scotch brite.

 

[freeasaburt]

I've definitely been too careful, didn't want to rush it and possibly botch it though. Somebody with more and proper experience can probably assess the state/quality of the plating better than me, and I didn't want to mess up the cylinder.
As happens to so many, I have ruined or at least damaged a thing or two trying out my Dremel (a very beautiful, walnut + rosewood Minelli airgun stock comes to mind...). So unless I need to clean up the ports (there's a bit of a rough edge that I'm gonna ask advice for later, with a picture), I'd rather not touch it with a machine.... OEM cylinders are expensive and at some point won't be made anymore. As I'm told, AM cylinders often need work done to achieve the same power as an OEM cylinder, and although porting interests me, there's way more 'basic' knowlegde/skills I want to become familiar with first.
I literally know nobody that's into working on chainsaws, except for actual shops. I do know some people into other 2-stroke machines, like mopeds etc. , but where it comes to chainsaws youtube and this forum are my main sources of information, and I have sort of a careful 'step by step' approach.

 

[joe25DA]

I was hesitant to do it at first but I’ve done 2 now, and no problem. I practiced on a scored jug I had from a chopsaw first.

 

[freeasaburt]

But I'll have to be careful, CSCC (acres internet) specifies the 044 has a chrome plated bore, which at least according to Tinman isn't as resilient as nikasil.

I read on wikipedia that Mahle introduced Nikasil in 1967. So now I'm doubting that information on CSCC is correct.

 

[freeasaburt]

As I initially didn't notice more (small) parts needed replacing,worn out bolts etc. , I ordered some more stuff, also for the 026 I'm working on. Should be here soon .Getting more expensive along the line, but hey, that's how it usually goes .

Also ordered some AM exhausts, completely open. That way I don't have to gut the oem ones, and they were cheap anyway.

As said before, I also got an MS441 recently that I've been playing around with, and the reach provided by its 24 inch bar proved very useful already to clean up decent sized dead spruce that went down a few weeks ago. Another reason for the delay, but I had a lot of fun.
My milling saw (Stihl 064/660) still had felling spikes on it, which obviously aren't of much use. Turns out they fit on the 441. Way better than the tiny single one that was on there!

 

[freeasaburt]

So... Finally I had some time last weekend to look into the 044... Months ago I ordered a Stihl piston from bartsparts.nl, a sort of 'seller platform' where you can also find old stock.
Turns out they sent me the 12mm piston pin version,, i.e. for the more recent model 044 and MS440... Double checked, I did order the right part... So, pretty grumpy and annoyed, especially when I found out they don't offer another 10mm version at the moment.
Reassembled my 026 in stead, so at least that's done.

Stihl only sells piston/cyl combos, for more than enough money. So I'm considering an aftermarket piston, to be installed in the cleaned up cylinder.
'Locally' I find these:

https://shop.saegenspezi.de/piston-fits-Stihl-044-50mm-10mm-piston-pin-old-model -> probably Farmertec?
https://www.multitools.be/webshop/wisselstukken/piston-stihl-044-kettingzaag -> no piston ports?

On ebay a Meteor is sold: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1743444646...c+CuMkshljKYVen0upp4nAuw==|tkp:Bk9SR7Tto6mIYg

What piston would be the best choice?