Stihl MS 362 Missing Crank Bearing Cage

[tgbanshee]

First time poster, long time lurker. Picked up a used MS 362C-M a few months back for market value. Saw worked great for a few hours of cutting then up and died. I could not even get it to turn over. After tearing the saw down and performing a leak test, I discovered the clutch side crank seal was leaking pretty bad (would not hold any pressure or vacuum). Pulled the cylinder/piston, they did not look too bad but I did pickup a spare set for a good price just in case. Reinstalled the old cylinder/piston for the time being. Last night after beginning to install new seals on both sides and preparing to reassemble the saw, I noticed that the clutch side crank bearing is missing the cage for the balls. My question is:

Assuming that this bearing requires the cage and if I try to run without it the result will be bad, can I just install a new cage off a new bearing? Or should I replace the entire bottom end (crank, bearings, new seals again...)

I'm trying to avoid splitting the cases and going through the oven/freezer process to install new bearings in the case halves, along with all the extra time/money involved. Any input/recommendations would be super helpful.

Attached is a picture of the bearing. The red goop is some Silkolene Pro RG2 grease I used to coat the seal/case mating surfaces I had laying around left over from a Yamaha Banshee motor build.

 

[Ozhoo]

Personally, I'd split the case and do it right, you just don't know how long those bearings have been flopping around... but you can replace the nylon bearing cage if you had to.

I popped one apart to show you.

 

[Woodslasher]

I'd split the case and replace the bearings, I really doubt your crank is bad but I'd still check it for up and down play.

 

[Automender]

Those balls need to be spaced evenly so the tolerances of the bearing is correct. I had a bearing cage disintegrate and found it inside the case on my TS420 concrete saw rebuild. The seals are leaking because the shaft is not being held in the center since the balls are not evenly spaced.

 

[Mad Professor]

New bearings.

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

Put new crank bearings in it.

 

[BrettS]

Split case and new bearings, it's the only way.
My 372 came with bearings like that so I split the case and replaced bearings.

 

[Backstage]

+1 to the Do It Right choir. IF you manage to hack that (you won’t), it’s going to bug you every time the saw does something funny wondering if that’s why.

Fun fact. On the Apollo 8 mission, the crew was provided with a shot of brandy each for Christmas dinner. The crew refused to partake, insisting that “If we drink that, anything that goes wrong from now on, the eggheads will blame on drunk astronauts.”

 

[stihltech]

Split case, replace bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. Or get a spare top end and crank for the near future.

 

[tgbanshee]

Thank you all so much for the input it is much appreciated. It looks like I will be splitting the case and replacing the bearings.

I'm a bit surprised that Stihl used nylon instead of steel for the bearing cage, seems a bit odd on such a critical part to cheap out. I'm a fan of overbuilding things for reliability, especially if I'm going to be tearing it down this far. Does anyone have a recommendation on upgraded bearings that have a steel cage and will not fail in this manner? I'm not opposed to shelling out the dough for ceramic bearings if they will outlast the OEM ones as well. Thoughts?

 

[BrettS]

Thank you all so much for the input it is much appreciated. It looks like I will be splitting the case and replacing the bearings.

I'm a bit surprised that Stihl used nylon instead of steel for the bearing cage, seems a bit odd on such a critical part to cheap out. I'm a fan of overbuilding things for reliability, especially if I'm going to be tearing it down this far. Does anyone have a recommendation on upgraded bearings that have a steel cage and will not fail in this manner? I'm not opposed to going the ceramic bearing route either.

NSK, Nachi, SKF are all good bearings. Go for C3 bearings and ask for steel cage.

 

[stihltech]

Ihave had equal amounts of plastic and metal cages fail over the years. Plastic cages cause less piston damage.

 

[Automender]

Thank you all so much for the input it is much appreciated. It looks like I will be splitting the case and replacing the bearings.

I'm a bit surprised that Stihl used nylon instead of steel for the bearing cage, seems a bit odd on such a critical part to cheap out. I'm a fan of overbuilding things for reliability, especially if I'm going to be tearing it down this far. Does anyone have a recommendation on upgraded bearings that have a steel cage and will not fail in this manner? I'm not opposed to shelling out the dough for ceramic bearings if they will outlast the OEM ones as well. Thoughts?

The Stihl TS420 cut off saw I rebuilt had steel cages and they failed also.