Thickness?

[djg james]

For those of you with a band saw mill, what thickness setting do you use to get for 4/4 for a final thickness of 3/4" after drying/planing? Do you cut at exactly at 1" and end up with a board 15/16" thick before drying?

 

[ValleyForge]

For those of you with a band saw mill, what thickness setting do you use to get for 4/4 for a final thickness of 3/4" after drying/planing? Do you cut at exactly at 1" and end up with a board 15/16" thick before drying?

Exact is not a word in the mill vocabulary….lol

if the wood is for furniture or investment grade, I’ll do 5/4 and thickness plane it when dry to usually around 4/4. If it’s utility wood, I do just over 4/4 and go from there when dry.
it depends on the wood too…..oak is fairly stable, pine is anyones guess….

 

[djg james]

Exact is not a word in the mill vocabulary….lol

if the wood is for furniture or investment grade, I’ll do 5/4 and thickness plane it when dry to usually around 4/4. If it’s utility wood, I do just over 4/4 and go from there when dry.
it depends on the wood too…..oak is fairly stable, pine is anyones guess….

Isn't 5/4 kind of excessive when you want 3/4" (furniture) after drying/planing? Seems like a lot of waste especially when my Ash/W. Oak logs aren't that big.

 

[Mad Professor]

A lot is going to depend on the mill and the sawyers ability to produce boards of correct and consistent dimensions. Finnish will also effect how much you will need to plane off to get a smooth surface.

 

[ValleyForge]

Isn't 5/4 kind of excessive when you want 3/4" (furniture) after drying/planing? Seems like a lot of waste especially when my Ash/W. Oak logs aren't that big.

you figure 1/4 for shrinkage loss and 2-16th inch planing runs per side…

for dry wood, I’m closer to 4/4, but you never know on those interior boards how wet they are…

it’s what I do, YMMV….

 

[ValleyForge]

A lot is going to depend on the mill and the sawyers ability to produce boards of correct and consistent dimensions. Finnish will also effect how much you will need to plane off to get a smooth surface.

a mill is a mill (bandsaw mills that is) in my opinion, it’s the type and maintenance of the blades that is the trick. I know that will be controversial in the milling world here, but so be it…a big part of the experience of the Sawyer is to know the condition of the blades at all times by feel in the type of wood they are working.

 

[Mad Professor]

a mill is a mill (bandsaw mills that is) in my opinion, it’s the type and maintenance of the blades that is the trick. I know that will be controversial in the milling world here, but so be it…a big part of the experience of the Sawyer is to know the condition of the blades at all times by feel in the type of wood they are working.

I have seem mills make boards that taper :across, lengthwise, in the middle.

Tapered boards from debris on the mill where a cant is clamped. Debris on the carriage/tracks

Rough surface from blades or the machine.

 

[djg james]

you figure 1/4 for shrinkage loss and 2-16th inch planing runs per side…

for dry wood, I’m closer to 4/4, but you never know on those interior boards how wet they are…

it’s what I do, YMMV….

That's more to what I was thinking. If I end up with a strong 1+ inch boards off the mill (green) I should be alright. Because of the demise of the Ash tree, I'm trying to salvage every white centered Ash that comes to the burn pile.

 

[djg james]

a mill is a mill (bandsaw mills that is) in my opinion, it’s the type and maintenance of the blades that is the trick. I know that will be controversial in the milling world here, but so be it…a big part of the experience of the Sawyer is to know the condition of the blades at all times by feel in the type of wood they are working.

This guy is new to me and the saw milling business. I'll do a quick check of the boards across the width and length and have him make adjustments if things go too wrong.

 

[djg james]

I have seem mills make boards that taper :across, lengthwise, in the middle.

Tapered boards from debris on the mill where a cant is clamped. Debris on the carriage/tracks

Rough surface from blades or the machine.

I know a little about milling from my brief work at the circle mill, so I'll keep my eye out for things like that.

 

[Mad Professor]

I know a little about milling from my brief work at the circle mill, so I'll keep my eye out for things like that.

I worked in a circle mill before I had my own mill. I didn't work up to being the sawyer, but was the edger who had to quickly evaluate all the flitches off the big saw and edge them.

 

[Sawdust Man]

In general cut them full 1" if you want a finished 3/4" board.
I usually cut 5/4 when I'm making wider boards like 1x12 because with cupping, sometimes the wide stuff doesn't clean up at 3/4"
A slob (or someone who doesn't know what he is doing), running a mill can make alotta near worthless lumber in a hurry.
Just because it's "rough sawn" doesn't mean the lumber can't be consistent.
As a Sawyer, I'm not happy with lumber that has more than 1/32" of inconsistency right off the mill, I'm not a perfectionist by any definition, but rough sawn lumber can and should be consistent.
If you're paying someone to mill logs for you, then you are the boss.

 

[Mad Professor]

In general cut them full 1" if you want a finished 3/4" board.
I usually cut 5/4 when I'm making wider boards like 1x12 because with cupping, sometimes the wide stuff doesn't clean up at 3/4"
A slob (or someone who doesn't know what he is doing), running a mill can make alotta near worthless lumber in a hurry.
Just because it's "rough sawn" doesn't mean the lumber can't be consistent.
As a Sawyer, I'm not happy with lumber that has more than 1/32" of inconsistency right off the mill, I'm not a perfectionist by any definition, but rough sawn lumber can and should be consistent.
If you're paying someone to mill logs for you, then you are the boss.

+1

I'll add a good sawyer makes a big difference as opening up each log is different. Defects and tension (hardwood) and compression (conifers) wood will make boards move. Sometimes you can slice things to minimize those.

A good sawyer can get some decent stuff from low quality logs. A hack can waste good timber.

 

[djg james]

I worked in a circle mill before I had my own mill. I didn't work up to being the sawyer, but was the edger who had to quickly evaluate all the flitches off the big saw and edge them.

This was just a one or two person mill that was thriving in it's day. Family (not mine) operation that provided a lot of lumber for local barns and fences as well as pallet wood and trailer floors. Grade lumber was stickered.
I just helped move the lumber off the knees, re-stack back on the knees to cut stickers and edge the boards, stack, hit and miss plane and sticker lumber. General labor. But I learned a little on how to read a log and saw lumber just from watching.

 

[djg james]

In general cut them full 1" if you want a finished 3/4" board.
I usually cut 5/4 when I'm making wider boards like 1x12 because with cupping, sometimes the wide stuff doesn't clean up at 3/4"
A slob (or someone who doesn't know what he is doing), running a mill can make alotta near worthless lumber in a hurry.
Just because it's "rough sawn" doesn't mean the lumber can't be consistent.
As a Sawyer, I'm not happy with lumber that has more than 1/32" of inconsistency right off the mill, I'm not a perfectionist by any definition, but rough sawn lumber can and should be consistent.
If you're paying someone to mill logs for you, then you are the boss.

These are small 16-20 inch dia. logs and I'm realistically shooting for 1x8s, 1x6s. So I think a strong 1 inch board should be fine. I agree, if wider, than thicker is required for what you said.

This guy is new to me, so as I said, I can have him adjust if I notice something wrong.
The other guy I've used in the past charged a $70 setup fee, so for small logs, it's expensive. He was consistent though. I would consider using him again if I had a large Walnut or Cherry log to mill. Depending on how the new guy does. The new guy is closer, no setup fee, cheaper and has a bucket to lift the logs out of my truck/trailer.

 

[djg james]

+1

I'll add a good sawyer makes a big difference as opening up each log is different. Defects and tension (hardwood) and compression (conifers) wood will make boards move. Sometimes you can slice things to minimize those.

A good sawyer can get some decent stuff from low quality logs. A hack can waste good timber.

I agree. The sawyer at the circle mill could work around a log reacting an starting to pinch the blade. He always turned the cant 180 deg. every few cuts to compensate for stress and curvature that developed. I never could see that.

 

[WoodyGuy]

What Sawdust Man said:

In general cut them full 1" if you want a finished 3/4" board.
I usually cut 5/4 when I'm making wider boards like 1x12 because with cupping, sometimes the wide stuff doesn't clean up at 3/4"

Is good advice. I've also learned that the first question is: "what are you gonna use the boards for?"

If you're make'n pallets, who cares? If you're make'n pianos, you gotta care.
For fussy stuff, saw it thicker so you can make up for cupping and bow. At the end
of the day, though, most of it all is gonna depend on the quality of the logs. Squirrly,
knotty, sweepy logs - it's amazing to see what a board will do when the saw is almost
through the cut - I've seen the ends curl up 4" on either end 'cause of the stress in the
log, where with a prime log, the board sits flat on the cant at the end of the cut. I've
also watched cants lift in the middle as boards are taken off. Log stress can do crazy
things, and it sounds like the logs you're working with are marginal quality.

Then there's drying - you gonna air dry? Got good stickers? gonna cover the
pile? gonna put a lot of weight on the pile? Got good air movement?

So again, what are you gonna use 'em for?

There's a lot more to it then plop'n a log on the carriage, and spit'n out lumber.

 

[djg james]

What Sawdust Man said:

In general cut them full 1" if you want a finished 3/4" board.
I usually cut 5/4 when I'm making wider boards like 1x12 because with cupping, sometimes the wide stuff doesn't clean up at 3/4"

Is good advice. I've also learned that the first question is: "what are you gonna use the boards for?"

If you're make'n pallets, who cares? If you're make'n pianos, you gotta care.
For fussy stuff, saw it thicker so you can make up for cupping and bow. At the end
of the day, though, most of it all is gonna depend on the quality of the logs. Squirrly,
knotty, sweepy logs - it's amazing to see what a board will do when the saw is almost
through the cut - I've seen the ends curl up 4" on either end 'cause of the stress in the
log, where with a prime log, the board sits flat on the cant at the end of the cut. I've
also watched cants lift in the middle as boards are taken off. Log stress can do crazy
things, and it sounds like the logs you're working with are marginal quality.

Then there's drying - you gonna air dry? Got good stickers? gonna cover the
pile? gonna put a lot of weight on the pile? Got good air movement?

So again, what are you gonna use 'em for?

There's a lot more to it then plop'n a log on the carriage, and spit'n out lumber.

Agree with all you've said. As I've said, I have a little experience reading logs. Definitely not an expert. So, I've picked logs that I think will turn out well. No visible knots or branching. That said, I'm not arrogant enough to guarantee what's inside. I bet lot of you have been surprised as to what's inside. But on my last Cherry project, I was very pleased. Very good, clear grade lumber.

I've seen some boards curl coming right off the mill. Mostly Sycamore and Cottonwood if I remember right. We'd dead stack the fence lumber in storage and these boards were always a PITA to keep stacked on the piles.

I've stickered probably 1000 BF of lumber in piles 12' high x 20' long. For myself, my stacks are much, much smaller, but I have stickers, level spot, air flow, etc already.

And yes, I hope that this new guy knows that there's "more to it then plop'n a log on the carriage, and spit'n out lumber" too.

 

[Franny K]

4/4 hardwood scale is the boards 1 1/8 inches. So drop that plus the kerf. I would expect any new band mill to come with a scale for this usually magnetic so it can be positioned. I read all the way through and don't think this has been posted.

What are you running 1 1/4 wide by 0.042" bands? Have you got setworks? I do not have a planer and if you really want nice flat boards you will need nice logs. Some species will move around more than others. Probably dried in a quite restrained position.

 

[djg james]

4/4 hardwood scale is the boards 1 1/8 inches. So drop that plus the kerf. I would expect any new band mill to come with a scale for this usually magnetic so it can be positioned. I read all the way through and don't think this has been posted.

What are you running 1 1/4 wide by 0.042" bands? Have you got setworks? I do not have a planer and if you really want nice flat boards you will need nice logs. Some species will move around more than others. Probably dried in a quite restrained position.

Not my band mill so I don't know how he's got it set up. The logs appear to be good but I won't know until we cut it open.