Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

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OH, and you know what else just this second occurred to me??

24D ester is up for it's 15 year review this year?... it's a "less desirable" herbicide farmers won't buy when given the choice?.... this year there's a "shortage" of the preferred 24D and farmers are forced to buy the garbage that the retailers are likely choking in inventory on?...

What better time to force-dump your unsellable inventory, and sell it at an inflated price, in a year when prices on everything else is inflated, knowing full well your products registration could soon be pulled by the EPA?

I know I tend to lean towards "conspiracy theories" but these are Facts we're talking about here, provable facts.
There's no way all of this could simply be "coincidence."
If it is up for review, i'm fairly certain that means they will have a public comment period. Let us know if you see that request for comments.
 
If it is up for review, i'm fairly certain that means they will have a public comment period. Let us know if you see that request for comments.
That would be interesting public"comment hearing" to hear. I would love to know how many of those hearing the "hearing" had their yards sprayed with 2-4-D in the last 12 months prior to the hearing/ I would love to know how many of those at the hearing wanting it banned have a product containing 2-4-D applied or applied it themselves in the last 12 months prior to the hearing.
 
2,4-D No delay indicated on label. A 6- to 8-hour rain-free period is suggested for the amine formulations, while the suggested rain-free period for the ester is one hour.
http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/weeds/reference/wc92/WC92-2005/Raindelays.pdf

In my experience, you had best not spray broadleaf weed control (2,4-D + other stuff) unless there is no rain expected for at least 24 hours. While roundup claims 12 hour rainfast, I don't think that is a good plan.

Now if you can follow a rain or morning dew with an application? Excellent results.
 
What you say is for the most part sums up what I have said but some still want to argue with.

You say.... There are no requirements for recording the use of herbicides by a private individual on their own property. For that matter, none for a private individual for someone else's property, providing it is not a service done for hire..................

That is at least partially correct and possibly 100% correct. It is 100% correct for NON_RESTRICTED use herbicides PERIOD. There are ZERO recording requirements, no ID is needed, that are NOT RESTRCTED, nor regulated beyond label directions.. As for private or commercial it is a mute point. I have asked the OP many times to be certain it was a private applicator and she has assured us with 100% certainty it was. The ends the recording requirement period.

We are discussing a private individual applying a non-restricted use herbicide on ground he or she owns, rents or lease. There simply are no recording requirements. I ask those folks that think there is then why don't the retailers ask for your ID or applicator license when purchasing a non-restricted use item?

I cannot say about the laws in other states. As we have seen, the requirements in Georgia are considerably different than the states I am more familiar with.

In Missouri, there are no licensing requirements for purchase of pesticides (non-restricted), but it is clearly a part of your licensed obligation to keep records. As you have pointed out, I can go down to the coop and buy a jug of 2,4-D, provide no id, and then go out and charge all my customers for dandelion weed spray done to their yards.
And the State is none the wiser until an agent knocks on my door and asks to see my records concerning the application conditions on XX day of last month, when it is alleged that I killed the neighbor's peonies.

If I don't have the records, I'm in trouble.
 
But, I think the bottom line here is, if you don't wash the 2,4-D ester off a non-target plant in the first hour after contact, you're sh1t out of luck.

That will depend a great deal upon the nature of the "contact", the herbicide in question, and the weather. Just keep in mind that your exposure seems to have been caused by volatilization. The plants weren't probably sprayed by droplets (drift) as much as they were gassed by a long exposure to airborne chemicals. Or at least I thought that was conclusion reached much earlier in this thread.

Think of lung damage caused by mustard gas in WWI. Taking a shower after an exposure might help, but it doesn't wash off the affected parts.

Plants also "breathe", just not like mammals and insects. They have what are called stoma that do the work of gas exchange. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoma
Your plants were most likely inhaling the herbicide for a full day or more following the farmer's application. Washing them off during the lengthy exposure wouldn't likely have been helpful anyway.

When plants are under heat stress, they close their stoma to the gas exchange in order to conserve water. At these times, it is strongly suggested to avoid making herbicide applications because it just doesn't work very well. Timing and weather are critical, here. You apparently got exposed when conditions were optimal; I'd say the farmer knew when to do his spraying, at least in order to maximise his kill percentage.
 
Agreed.
Damn those Nazis all the way to hell, and their toxic gassing poisonous chemicals. :mad:

No. Mustard gas was featured in WW ONE. So far as I am aware, the only mustard gas used was by the American forces in some harbor in Italy. MANY troops were killed when the boats they were on got bombed by the Germans.

Said event was the inspiration for an early chemical treatment for leukemia. You can look it up.
 
Good news from the garden this morning!
A tomato and lots of flowers! :happybanana: :dancing::cheers::happy::clap::bowdown:
If that thing lives and ripens, by G0d, I'm eating it.
View attachment 998483
The squash and zucchini plants are loaded with flower buds and some flowers, but no fruit yet.
I'm eating them, too, should they grow and resemble a normal squash.
:drinkingcoffee:
At this point in time, after all I've been exposed to, I seriously doubt a few contaminated veggies will make any difference. And, frankly, after all I know now, I don't care.
'mater looks good. I'm surprised it made it as they are one of the first veggie plants to succumb to 2,4_D.
 
And another question about this I just now spotted... isn't this what you would call "grass?"
Is this a normal color for this grass?

If 2,4-D kills broadleaf plants and this is a grass, and if it's been affected by herbicide, wouldn't it have had to come from the Enlist/Intercept mix that was sprayed last week when I smelled it sitting in my yard???
https://cdn.nufarm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2018/06/19092044/0739-Intercept.pdf
View attachment 998555View attachment 998556
If this is grass, and it's been killed by the Intercept, I'm calling the DoA man back out here.
Btw, the mowed grass in the neighbors yard is this color, too. I thought from the dry spell. Now I'm not so sure. You can barely see it in the top photo on the upper right. Same wheat-straw color as what's in the photo.
Some annual grasses have a short life span. I had some similar looking grass like that around here the edges on my wheat field. It was green but now is brown and I didn't spray it.
 
In my experience, you had best not spray broadleaf weed control (2,4-D + other stuff) unless there is no rain expected for at least 24 hours. While roundup claims 12 hour rainfast, I don't think that is a good plan.

Now if you can follow a rain or morning dew with an application? Excellent results.
You are spot on correct. There are a lot of opinions and claims about "rainfast" times. I am a pretty simple man and see it one way. If you are spraying a CONTACT chemical whether it be a herbicide, insecticide, pesticide or any other the entire crux of it working is CONTACT. It must make contact (yes vapor is contact) and maintain that contact for as long as possible to allow the pest to take in as much as possible. I know for some reason my analogies seem to fall flat on their face but I still use them. Here is yet another................You are cleaning with bleach and somehow get some pure bleach on your forearm or wrist. Now most know that would burn. Do you just leave it there and allow it to burn your skin or do you as quickly as possible wash it off? The majority would wash it off quickly thus reducing the damage. Now will you suffer skin damage (minor) but will the severity be changed based on your decision to wash as much off as quickly as possible? There is ZERO doubt in my mind that the longer a contact herbicide is in contact with the plant the better the kill will be. Does it really only need 12-24 hours? I do not know but I personally prefer longer. Now in the case of the OP washing down the plants weeks later sadly I truly feel that might be a lost cause but heck maybe not.

Now there is a HUGE exception to what I discussed above. I (as well as many others) could go on and on about farming and herbicides and the changes that have occurred in our lifetimes. The news today is all about drift and overspray and it is a HUGE issue. I will never dispute that. One (only one of many) but one big reason it is a larger problem now is because of how, what and when we spray. Today farmers are covering such a huge amount of acres in such a small amount of time they must shave as much time off as possible. Advances in herbicides and application have greatly allowed a time savings. Today we spray once at burndown/pre-plant (or just after planting) and if that is effective that is it. In most cases it is not 100% effective and a post-plant (growing) application is required.

Now 40 years ago we would till the soil then apply a pre-emergence herbicide (not a contact killer). It prevents the seed germination of weeds and had little to no effect on growing plants. In reference to rain you wanted the exact opposite. You prayed you could spray the field and have it rain in 24 hours. The rain was your friend as it "washed" the herbicide into the soil. If you did not get rain then you would have to till it in (incorporate it) to generally 4 inches. The herbicide had zero to little effect on the top of the soil it needed to be in the soil whereas a contact herbicide has little to zero effect in the soil. I do not rember the exact ones but we used to spray some that required double incorporation thus you had to disk it twice
 
But, I think the bottom line here is, if you don't wash the 2,4-D ester off a non-target plant in the first hour after contact, you're sh1t out of luck.
There is ZERO doubt damage has occurred in that first hour but that does not mean water applied after that will not reduce the damage. I cannot see how 1 week later would though. by then the plant has taken in what it could
 
I cannot say about the laws in other states. As we have seen, the requirements in Georgia are considerably different than the states I am more familiar with.

In Missouri, there are no licensing requirements for purchase of pesticides (non-restricted), but it is clearly a part of your licensed obligation to keep records. As you have pointed out, I can go down to the coop and buy a jug of 2,4-D, provide no id, and then go out and charge all my customers for dandelion weed spray done to their yards.
And the State is none the wiser until an agent knocks on my door and asks to see my records concerning the application conditions on XX day of last month, when it is alleged that I killed the neighbor's peonies.

If I don't have the records, I'm in trouble.
In the case you are referencing you are applying the chemical as a commercial applicator not a private person. You say............ I can go down to the coop and buy a jug of 2,4-D, provide no id, and then go out and charge all my customers for dandelion weed spray done to their yards.......................

In that case you are operating as a commercial applicator for hire. Let's take the same case as a private person. You go down to the CO-OP buy a jug of 2-4-D. You come home you spray YOUR YARD for dandelions. You are careless and you overspray killing your neighbor peonies. What agent has what right to ask you for any record regarding that application? Now in front of a judge you will have to defend your actions but that is COMPLETELY different
 
I'm just going by what the experts say and they say one hour for 2,4-D ester.
If the effects of the herbicide would be reduced after that by applying water, or rain, it's would be ineffective and the farmers wouldn't buy it.
Would they?
Well I am a pretty common sense guy. It very well may be effective in 60 minutes prior to a rain but I will assure you no farmer with any common sense would spray a field when rain is coming in an hour. That is UNLESS it is a pre-emergence which the chemicals you reference are not
 
When plants are under heat stress, they close their stoma to the gas exchange in order to conserve water. At these times, it is strongly suggested to avoid making herbicide applications because it just doesn't work very well. Timing and weather are critical, here. You apparently got exposed when conditions were optimal; I'd say the farmer knew when to do his spraying, at least in order to maximise his kill percentage.
That is am excellent explanation. Just drive down a country road during periods of heat and drought and look at he corn with it's leaves all rolled up. Then go look at night when the heat drops some and the leaves un-curl
 
I think it's a lost cause also, but what the heck. They can't say I didn't try.

Not a bad analogy, and good if you get the bleach on your skin, but allow me to expand on it a bit...
Lets say you pour some bleach in a bucket of water to mop the floor and inadvertently, and unknowingly, you splash some on your jeans... which is exactly what I've done before.
When it happens, all you see on the jeans is a wet spot. You toss them in the laundry basket and a week later after they've been washed and you take them out of the dryer, there are white spots all over them. There's no removing the bleach then, is there?
I think that's closer to what happened here, don't you?
Well yes, that is why I really bit my tongue when you wanted to have the fire department wash the trees down weeks later, At that point is like shutting the barn door after the horse is gone.

In the case of the bleach or chemical it is best to wash it off as fast as possible but not a week later
 
An analogy I posited:
...Think of lung damage caused by mustard gas in WWI. ...

Agreed.
Damn those Nazis all the way to hell, and their toxic gassing poisonous chemicals. :mad:

No. Mustard gas was featured in WW ONE. ...

...Did you read "mustard gas" ANYWHERE in my reply???

Didn't you read mustard gas in MY reply? I was talking about atmospheric absorption of toxic chemicals, and used the very well known topic of mustard gas as an analogy for comparison.

You "agreed" and then added comments that indicated a lack of historical understanding. If you agreed with my comment, then it had NOTHING to do with WWII.

If you intend to bring up holocaust commentary out of context with the conversation, you should be considerably more polite about it. And please stop making character assassinations every time you think you disagree with me.
 
An analogy I posited:








Didn't you read mustard gas in MY reply? I was talking about atmospheric absorption of toxic chemicals, and used the very well known topic of mustard gas as an analogy for comparison.

You "agreed" and then added comments that indicated a lack of historical understanding. If you agreed with my comment, then it had NOTHING to do with WWII.

If you intend to bring up holocaust commentary out of context with the conversation, you should be considerably more polite about it. And please stop making character assassinations every time you think you disagree with me.
You need a hobby

1656186079241.png
 
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