Trying to get smarter about chain sharpening

[czyhorse]

So after messing up a few chains trying to make my HF chain grinder work better I broke down a bought an Oregon 520-120 chain grinder. I am now more then ever obnoxiously aware of how cavalier I have been about sharpening chains. I would like to get much better and more precise. To that end I need some more info. I have a lot of random chains. Is there a chart somewhere that can help me identify what chains I have, a guide to manufacturers markings? Then is there a big chart somewhere for different chains angles or do I have to go to each individual manufacturer to get that info?

 

[HarleyT]

So after messing up a few chains trying to make my HF chain grinder work better I broke down a bought an Oregon 520-120 chain grinder. I am now more then ever obnoxiously aware of how cavalier I have been about sharpening chains. I would like to get much better and more precise. To that end I need some more info. I have a lot of random chains. Is there a chart somewhere that can help me identify what chains I have, a guide to manufacturers markings? Then is there a big chart somewhere for different chains angles or do I have to go to each individual manufacturer to get that info?

Just sharpen the chains to your preferred angles. You would go crazy otherwise.

 

[Westboastfaller]

File guides, and grinders are not sutable discussion for me. I don't really care for many chainsaws or chains either.
Do you cut wood? You need to cut wood with different power heads. Then you can better serve yourself, then in return...

 

[Okie294life]

Get you a stihl 2 n 1 sharpener and don’t worry about it. I bought a grinder from HF and that thing eats the chains up. After using this sharpener I’ll never go back to the grinder unless the chain is seriously ffed up, because it does the rakers correctly at the same time.

 

[1hp]

just need to cross-reference Oregon with the brands you have.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Nature cannot be tricked of cheated
She will give up to you the objects of your struggles only when you have paid her price.
~ Napoleon Hill

 

[Philbert]

This thread has a lot of good information (similar grinders):
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/
Visit manufacturers’ websites for info on sharpening recommendations, markings, etc.
STIHL, Oregon, Carlton, Tri-Link, Archer, etc., you will find lots of other good stuff when rooting around.

Also consider a chain identifying gauge if you work with lots of different chains.



Philbert

 

[1hp]

more info.

 

[Vanguard]

Assuming this is not the answer you'll want to hear, I believe you'd be betterd served in the long run.

I'd take that grinder back or sell it, and spend the money on fistfulls of a few different chains, files, and raker gauges. Do get the 2-in-1 sharpener, Stihl or Pferd, as suggested above to keep your cutting productive until you finally figure out how to hand file.

Start off with semi-chisel, otherwise known as round-tooth, for learning how to hand file. It's easier to learn on vs. full-chisel, otherwise known as square-tooth.

This all will take you on a journey, down a rabbit hole over the years, but many things will become of the time and effort invested. You'll find you are in more control during a day's worth of cutting, whatever that may be.

A few things I've learned from handfiling. . .

Stihl chain is usually harder than other brands. I can feel it with file in hand.

Optimum raker heights for soft vs. hard woods. Exploring heights for a full-life tooth vs. a half-life tooth.

Great hand filed chains cut better than any bench ground chain I've used.

I don't worry about every tooth being the same size anymore. Just sharpen each tooth until it has it's edge. I'd rather spend more time cutting wood than using a micrometer.

I compare woodchips to breakfast. I love hashbrowns. Oatmeal is good and hearty, but cream of wheat is too late.

My blood pressure drops by 15% when hand filing, kinda' like fishing. Clears my head with focus.

Anyways, the only time I'd use a bench grinder would be if I was into using square-ground chain or was like one of my grandfathers who sharpened a bucket full of chains every night after a day's operation.

And one more thing, Full-house chain is different than Full-comp, Full-house being a tooth on every link. Wait, that's another conversation, but point is, handfiling makes you try new things. I used Full-house chains in carpentry to carve notches and such in Big-timber construction, alot of columns and beam work I remember.

Good-luck!

 

[Bret4207]

Semi-chisel isn't "round tooth". Chipper is round tooth. Not sure you can get chipper anymore. Semi-chisel has a smaller radius than chipper. Chisel has a square or near square corner.

 

[Mad Professor]

You need this:


A holder you can make out of a piece of 1 X 5" hardwood branch, and a pair of gloves to keep knuckles happy.

 

[Vanguard]

Semi-chisel isn't "round tooth". Chipper is round tooth. Not sure you can get chipper anymore. Semi-chisel has a smaller radius than chipper. Chisel has a square or near square corner.

I understand what you're pointing out and agree with the technicality pointed out.

Saw shops here on the west coast maybe have simplified things when talking chain types over the years, ie. round tooth - round ground, square tooth - round ground, and square tooth - square ground. This is the reason I stated, " otherwise known as".

Because I use Stihl chain, I ask for semi or full chisel since that's what they list it as. This helps getting into confusions with technicalities.

Also, I make sure to ask for Stihl Yellow over Green chain when buying Full - chisel, full - comp or full - skip. The shops here will default you to green chain, aka bumper chain or known as anti - kickback chain if you don't specify otherwise.

 

[Philbert]

Get you a stihl 2 n 1 sharpener and don’t worry about it.

Assuming this is not the answer you'll want to hear, I believe you'd be betterd served in the long run.

Holy cr*p: it's as predictable as buzzards swarming over roadkill. Every time someone asks about using their grinder better, a bunch of folks have to jump in with off topic, evangelical, filing advice.

It's like:
Q:'How do I cook asparagus?'
A: 'You should not be cooking asparagus, you should be cooking kale . . .'

Or:
Q: 'What's the best way to tune my chainsaw?'
A: 'You should not be using a chainsaw, you should be using a crosscut saw. My grandfather . . . .'

'I love hashbrowns.'
'You should be eating granola.'

There are lots of ways to sharpen, and people should not be offended if other folks do it differently. Each person has to find something that works for them. The OP just stated that using a grinder has raised his awareness of sharpening. If the 2-in-1 works for you, fine. Personally, I think that it is a 'dumbed-down' way to sharpen a mediocre chain, but I know lots of people who like it, and find their chains cut 'good enough', or at least better than they did when sharpened with another method. I have run across people who think that using a file with an actual handle is not 'purist' enough for 'real' chainsaw users.

Think that grinders 'ruin' chains? Give me a new file and a new STIHL chain, and watch me 'ruin' each cutter with just a few strokes, if you want to lose a bet.

This all will take you on a journey, down a rabbit hole over the years,

Some people don't want to wait years to get sharp chains, and are not looking for a Zen experience. They want, or need, to cut wood. And are satisfied with chains that are sharpened both to cut, and with edges that hold up for their use.

Back to @czyhorse: there is a learning curve for any sharpening method you choose. Start with some 'scrap' chains and 'experiment 'with all of the grinder settings to see how changes affect the cutters. Take a chain that you like, and try to 'copy' that with the grinder, then go back at look at the settings, rather that being too worried about the other way around: knowing what you want your finished cutters to look like is the most important part of sharpening.

Take lots of small 'taps', and dress your wheels frequently, to constantly expose fresh abrasive. If you overheat / burn cutters, then do this intentionally on your practice chains, and work backwards to find out how to not do that in the future (you can usually grind through any burned cutters to let you file them again, if that does happen).

Then try those chains in the wood that you cut, and decide what works for you. And, if you decide to file instead, there are plenty of people who will line up to buy that grinder off of CraigsList.

Philbert

 

[kielbasa]

I was/am in the same boat as OP.....
Done several years of casual filing, am fairly good at it, but just got the bug to try a grinder. So two months ago I bought a super jolly and have been learning/experimenting in my spare time.
To answer his questions, google some images of a properly sharpened chain to understand what your tooth should look like. Start with some "generic" settings of 25 and 55/60 degrees and strive to mimic what you see in the pictures. That will (or at least got me) a decent cutting chain.
I've done about 60 chains so far and have learned a lot - I find this to be a fun task! My brother has a junky HF grinder also, it CAN do a good job as long as you know what you are striving for.
And like Philbert mentioned, I fall into the camp of not wanting a decade long journey of life lessons and pitfalls to just get some firewood cut.
Keep practicing and cutting! Fortunately I have several friends who cut decent amounts of firewood and are able to give me constructive feedback.

 

[Mad Professor]

Holy cr*p: it's as predictable as buzzards swarming over roadkill. Every time someone asks about using their grinder better, a bunch of folks have to jump in with off topic, evangelical, filing advice.

It's like:
Q:'How do I cook asparagus?'
A: 'You should not be cooking asparagus, you should be cooking kale . . .'

Or:
Q: 'What's the best way to tune my chainsaw?'
A: 'You should not be using a chainsaw, you should be using a crosscut saw. My grandfather . . . .'

'I love hashbrowns.'
'You should be eating granola.'

There are lots of ways to sharpen, and people should not be offended if other folks do it differently. Each person has to find something that works for them. The OP just stated that using a grinder has raised his awareness of sharpening. If the 2-in-1 works for you, fine. Personally, I think that it is a 'dumbed-down' way to sharpen a mediocre chain, but I know lots of people who like it, and find their chains cut 'good enough', or at least better than they did when sharpened with another method. I have run across people who think that using a file with an actual handle is not 'purist' enough for 'real' chainsaw users.

Think that grinders 'ruin' chains? Give me a new file and a new STIHL chain, and watch me 'ruin' each cutter with just a few strokes, if you want to lose a bet.


Some people don't want to wait years to get sharp chains, and are not looking for a Zen experience. They want, or need, to cut wood. And are satisfied with chains that are sharpened both to cut, and with edges that hold up for their use.

Back to @czyhorse: there is a learning curve for any sharpening method you choose. Start with some 'scrap' chains and 'experiment 'with all of the grinder settings to see how changes affect the cutters. Take a chain that you like, and try to 'copy' that with the grinder, then go back at look at the settings, rather that being too worried about the other way around: knowing what you want your finished cutters to look like is the most important part of sharpening.

Take lots of small 'taps', and dress your wheels frequently, to constantly expose fresh abrasive. If you overheat / burn cutters, then do this intentionally on your practice chains, and work backwards to find out how to not do that in the future (you can usually grind through any burned cutters to let you file them again, if that does happen).

Then try those chains in the wood that you cut, and decide what works for you. And, if you decide to file instead, there are plenty of people who will line up to buy that grinder off of CraigsList.

Philbert

But is wearing gloves O.K. when you file?

 

[Westboastfaller]

Wow! More American confusion.
Another broken system that was never broken.

I walk into Walkers saw shop and say "two 36" chains".
Question: preground?
Answer: No
Question: 114 or 115?
Answer: 115

It was either round (chipper chain), semi chisel, chisel or square chisel..
Full house or full comp meant the same. Semi skip wasn't a thing and skip was skip.
To tri file, square file or chisel file only pretained to square chisel (square square) opposed to round square.
Chisel bits were Tri files.
What! now we got colours?
--------
My initial thought was the op is grinding chain for people, IDK?
My point is u have to put the work in on both ends. It doesn't come from a book. Do you want to scratch or do you want to achieve levels?

 

[czyhorse]

Holy cr*p: it's as predictable as buzzards swarming over roadkill. Every time someone asks about using their grinder better, a bunch of folks have to jump in with off topic, evangelical, filing advice.

It's like:
Q:'How do I cook asparagus?'
A: 'You should not be cooking asparagus, you should be cooking kale . . .'

Or:
Q: 'What's the best way to tune my chainsaw?'
A: 'You should not be using a chainsaw, you should be using a crosscut saw. My grandfather . . . .'

'I love hashbrowns.'
'You should be eating granola.'

There are lots of ways to sharpen, and people should not be offended if other folks do it differently. Each person has to find something that works for them. The OP just stated that using a grinder has raised his awareness of sharpening. If the 2-in-1 works for you, fine. Personally, I think that it is a 'dumbed-down' way to sharpen a mediocre chain, but I know lots of people who like it, and find their chains cut 'good enough', or at least better than they did when sharpened with another method. I have run across people who think that using a file with an actual handle is not 'purist' enough for 'real' chainsaw users.

Think that grinders 'ruin' chains? Give me a new file and a new STIHL chain, and watch me 'ruin' each cutter with just a few strokes, if you want to lose a bet.


Some people don't want to wait years to get sharp chains, and are not looking for a Zen experience. They want, or need, to cut wood. And are satisfied with chains that are sharpened both to cut, and with edges that hold up for their use.

Back to @czyhorse: there is a learning curve for any sharpening method you choose. Start with some 'scrap' chains and 'experiment 'with all of the grinder settings to see how changes affect the cutters. Take a chain that you like, and try to 'copy' that with the grinder, then go back at look at the settings, rather that being too worried about the other way around: knowing what you want your finished cutters to look like is the most important part of sharpening.

Take lots of small 'taps', and dress your wheels frequently, to constantly expose fresh abrasive. If you overheat / burn cutters, then do this intentionally on your practice chains, and work backwards to find out how to not do that in the future (you can usually grind through any burned cutters to let you file them again, if that does happen).

Then try those chains in the wood that you cut, and decide what works for you. And, if you decide to file instead, there are plenty of people who will line up to buy that grinder off of CraigsList.

Philbert

Seriously thank you for the rescue!
I am practicing hand filing by doing touchups in the field. I would love to be better at it but so far on complete hand filing of a chain I wreck more chain then I make work. I get tired of having chains that don't cut worth a crap or try to cut in circles. We all have different talents. I just want dependable chains when I'm out in the bush. It's 45 minutes up the mountain, having to cut my day short without the pickup being full is a bummer. I respect everyone's talent. So far mine isn't hand filing chainsaw chain.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Seriously thank you for the rescue!
I am practicing hand filing by doing touchups in the field. I would love to be better at it but so far on complete hand filing of a chain I wreck more chain then I make work. I get tired of having chains that don't cut worth a crap or try to cut in circles. We all have different talents. I just want dependable chains when I'm out in the bush. It's 45 minutes up the mountain, having to cut my day short without the pickup being full is a bummer. I respect everyone's talent. So far mine isn't hand filing chainsaw chain.

Hey friend, sounds like you are trying to learn on others people junk? If that's the case then makes sense you are waisting time and money going up the hill for a half load.
You need to learn on new gear.
New bar and chain.
What kind of saw you running? I have the impression that you have a dogs breakfast mix of chains. History of the bars?

 

[HarleyT]

Just sharpen the chains to your preferred angles. You would go crazy otherwise.

As I said..........

 

[bayard]

not hitting things with the chain helps. if you are carefull you should be able to cut 5 or 6 good size trees before , a light hand file is needed.