Yes I have said some kind things about grinders and worse then ever I have gotten too too soft. But I have an image to maintain. It is well known that if I had to sharpen some one else's chain I would just tell them to send their chain to you or just buy new chain. Thanks
Trying to get smarter about chain sharpening
- Thread starter czyhorse
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It happens to the best of us....
Pfizer has a pill for that
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Vanguard
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Hey czyhorse
I owe you an apology, and no toes stepped on here, nor offended. When I first posted, it looked like the answers were already there for you from previous posts. I misinterpreted your post in wanting to achieve some major levels in sharpening chain at all costs, and it sounds like you are having other issues other than sharpening, trying to get a full truck of wood.
Unfortunately, I came across saying what you should do when I simply was trying to share the path I took and continue to take on everything else in life that has served me very well. Big secret, it's always harder but more rewarding in the end. Either way, it's your path to own, not mine.
No excuses here, just a different cat that grew up in an area that was once considered too rough for military personal to be allowed to visit on their free time. Generations before me that set mine straight, the journeyman teaching apprentices everything they knew, but required some anwry hazing to gain trust, being called kid well into my 30's, given the most unproductive - craziest task just to see if I'd break, and lucky to not get my check thrown in the mud every Friday by the boss.
Anyways, I remembered back, not just on chain but other steel needing to be sharpened...axes, hand chisels, slicks, draw knives, bench planes, and spoke shaves to name a few...generations before me pounding in my head to make sharpening steel as a lifestyle with craft and trade. Only one ingredient of the recipe, but sharper steel creates more production, doesn't wear down the machine - the power tool and the human body, gives pride, maintains discipline, the list goes on. This mentality has served me very well, especially to stay working, not seeing layoff checks before anyone else and gaining a very respectable reputation.
It will still be a journey either way you go, grinder or file. I hope some day you gain the confidence to take filing, doing well to supplement grinding chain.
If I can maybe give you a little advice that might help with no intentions of talking down to you... become organized and methodical, stay focused and disciplined, expect to fail... learn from it, fine tune the plan for next time, and most importantly execute.
If time is an issue in getting a full truck of wood, is your saw and gear packed ready to go at a moment's notice to do work? Are you bringing extra chains...faster to swap then file? Is your saw tuned, not just your chain, but bar maintained and saw ripping with no issues on WOT? Is your saw anemic for the wood to cut in a limited amount of time? Only buck and load...not buck, split, and load? Making firewood day as game day, not practice something new that you never tried yet? Most importantly, taking care of yourself...sleep, food, mind, and spirit.
Probably TLTR, and maybe it stirs the pot here more with no intentions in doing so...I just want to see you achieve what it is you are capable of. Again, my apologies..it's your journey. Take care and good luck...You'll see that truckload soon enough!
czyhorse
ArboristSite Operative
First and foremost Thank you and God bless you for your kindness and concern!
Thus far my efforts at hand filing have not been good. I seem to do ok with touch ups but filing a dull chain back to work duty does not go well. I have a heavy hand and do more damage then good. To often my chains want to cut in circles which its stupidly frustrating especially in big wood which I am getting into regularly now. I know what I am doing wrong but can’t seem to overcome my heavy hand in one direction vs the other. I just feel more comfortable with jigs that take out some of the human error factor. It is not a cure all, I can make mistakes with this too. I know that. It is just more comfortable for me and I think I will get better results this way.
But this is not an either or either but a both and. I will continue to work on my hand filing skills. There may be a day when all I have at my disposal is a hand file and I would hope I could make it happen. So I will continue to practice.
I pray my days of going home with half a truck load due to equipment problems are behind me. Haven’t had one in a while mostly because I addressed the issues you brought up. I continue to learn. Most of what I have learned came through mistake. I didn’t know forums like this existed until recently. Never even thought to look. Anyway, I will continue to learn and perfect as I go.
Blessings,
Carl
Socalmisfit
ArboristSite Operative
Most common I’ve seen is from 50-60 on the top, 35-25 on the bottom and 10 degrees if it is full chisel. I grind most of mine 60 on the grinder head, 30-32 1/2 on the bottom. I’ve contacted some chain manufacturers and most of the numbers are the same, right in the numbers I stated. You can find a grind you like, just go 5 degrees up and down a step at a time. Best thing I ever did was clean my chain before the grind. I clean them good, and it made all the difference.
BradSt
ArboristSite Operative
Agree 100%. The grease and dirt gums up the grinding wheel, and contributes to it overheating the cutter. I usually give mine a wash down with Oil Eater if it's especially greasy. Only takes an extra few minutes. Pretty sure I got that tip from Philbert.
Socalmisfit
ArboristSite Operative
I use purple power, might try this other stuff I found forgot the name but the purple power works good. I have to invest in some better grinding wheels still have the stock one on it.
It took me a long time to get good at hand filling, but now it's old hat. I have learned when to stop trying to cut so that touching up is easy and fast. I have also learned how to cut better and barring hitting something in the wood my chains stay sharper longer. Depending on conditions I can get 2/3 tanks ran before needing a touch up.
Try 'SuperClean', or the purple ZEP stuff that has sodium hydroxide (lye) in it (gotta read the labels). Works much better on grease.
Philbert
Add some diesel to the oil can cause gummed up chain new life. Thanks
czyhorse
ArboristSite Operative
How Do you use it. Spray on and wipe down? Or make a bucket of it and soak them in it? Then do you rinse them in clean water so you’re not gumming up the chain and grinding stone with soap residue?
Socalmisfit
ArboristSite Operative
Soak the chain for 10-20 min in whatever solution you pick I use a coffee container about 3/4 full. I then use a drain pan with enough solution in the bottom to cover the chain and scrub with a hard bristle brush both ways left and right. Rinse with hot water if possible or use a bucket of hot water and dip it. Dry it with a rag as you look at teeth to find the worst one, or you can blow it off with air. Grind the chain, rinse again to get metal shavings off, or blow it off is all I do then spray it with wd-40, or anything of your liking to stop rust from forming, marvels, liquid wrench etc.
Sodium hydroxide aka caustic soda aka lye is the active ingredient in a lot of de-greasers & most oven cleaners. We can buy it 100% in prill form as drain cleaner from the hardware store. At around $10 per kg you can make up a 5% solution (same as most off the shelf cleaners) for about NZ50c/L (around US$1/Gallon). Recommend to treat it like you would an acid... Gloves, glasses etc. Some people are more sensitive to it than others but it's corrosive to organic material (ie people) regardless. Contrary to popular belief the mob used drums of caustic soda (not acid) to "make people dissappear" back in the day.
Longer story, but I will try to keep it short. Tried a lot of things, including pure lye. Many things work. Chemist at ZEP convinced me that the commercial degreasers clean more things than just grease. So that kind of product (with sodium hydroxide) is what I use.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-chain-salvage-challenge.245369/
Philbert
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-chain-salvage-challenge.245369/
Philbert
Socalmisfit
ArboristSite Operative
Last time I was grinding a chain I was grinding at a 60 degree top angle. I noticed that at 60 degrees the wheel does not match the gullet exactly as the manufacture grind. Even though the manufacture specs are 60 degrees. Next time I grind I’m gonna try 55 and hope to feel a difference in the cut, or maybe get more life out of the regrind. I just started grinding chain, so wanted to stick with manufacture specs, but I guess it’s time to start playing with it.
A few different issues: accuracy, consistency, and 'fealty' (for lack of a better term at the moment).
Accuracy: is your grinder really grinding at 60°, and not 59.5° or 61°? Was the manufacturer off a bit? My grinder has 2 angle scales, which do not agree exactly. I tried to adjust one to match the other, but decided on just choosing one of them to follow. Never checked either against another scale / device / protractor. It's a 'semi-precision' machine, IMO.
Consistency: I was told by an Oregon rep that is better for all of your cutters to be the same. In other words, if they are ALL 61° it is better than if they average 60° (some 59°, some 61°, some 56°, one at 63.5°, etc.).
'Fealty': are you legally, contractually, or morally obligated to grind at the angles that STIHL, Oregon, etc., recommend?
I had the opportunity to visit the Oregon factory, several years ago, and watch chains be made. The cutters were all ground, before being assembled into loops of chain, on specialized, custom, grinding machines that each cost more than my house. The engineer commented something like, 'that's why it's hard to match the factory grind'.
Bottom line: work on being consistent in whatever angles you choose. Make those choices based on what works best for you, more than the general starting recommendations offered by the manufacturers.
Philbert
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Yes, my grinder's gauge is off slightly, so I just indexed it with a brand new chain,
and have kept it there ever since.
and have kept it there ever since.
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