Unhealthy Tree Detection

[boston]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum. Lately I've been reading up on how to identify dead & dying trees & there are some questions that I have.

So, if anyone has the time & would like to provide some opinions, that would be great!

Here are some things that I've learned so far:

*Any tree with green leaves, regardless of its orientation or the amount of other unhealthy symptoms, is still living, even if the tree has little chance of recovery & is dying. That is because trees take a long time to die.

*A fallen or standing tree with a broken canopy, or even broken in half, with some rot & peeling bark, is still technically alive. However, that doesn't mean that the tree is going to recover, & such as tree may be dead within a couple of years.

*If multiple sickly factors are present (significant lean, peeling bark, mold, large broken branches, missing top), then it's unlikely that a tree will recover. If I were to be technically correct, I'd say the tree is still living, yet will probably not recover, will eventually die (depending on other factors), & could be written off as dead.

Does this seem correct?

This oak tree pictured below is broken at the top, rotted, & has lots of missing bark. This tree will probably not compartmentalize the damage & will die, right?

Is it common for a tree such as a big oak (the second one pictured below with green leaves) to have 1/4 of its top broken off from a storm yet still thrive & live a normal lifespan?

The percentage of a tree's central column that's missing will affect the health of the tree? For instance if a large oak tree is broken almost in half then that tree may be alive for a couple of years, even though it will not recover, & can be considered dead?

Regarding conifers, if a large tree has mostly dead branches up to almost the very top of the tree, then that tree is dying? What are the odds of that tree recovering?

Any helpful comments are appreciated!

thank you

 

[TheJollyLogger]

What are you quoting?

 

[buzz sawyer]

A lot depends on the type of tree. The oak in your photo is probably history however in my experience, oaks are much less prone to rot and are more likely to survive aggressive pruning. Maples are just the opposite. We have a local Sycamore known as The Witness Tree. 7' dbh and estimated to be 300 years old (I questioned this). About 60 years ago the top was blown off n a storm. The tree survived and grew large, long branches (24" dia.) that posed a hazard as the trunk was hollow near where they attached. They were removed but the tree still seems to be doing well. 24" of gravel was packed down around the base out to about 10' and pavers added to create a little park around it. I warned the owners that this - would likely cause long term damage to the roots. Time will tell.

 

[boston]

A lot depends on the type of tree. The oak in your photo is probably history however in my experience, oaks are much less prone to rot and are more likely to survive aggressive pruning. Maples are just the opposite. We have a local Sycamore known as The Witness Tree. 7' dbh and estimated to be 300 years old (I questioned this). About 60 years ago the top was blown off n a storm. The tree survived and grew large, long branches (24" dia.) that posed a hazard as the trunk was hollow near where they attached. They were removed but the tree still seems to be doing well. 24" of gravel was packed down around the base out to about 10' and pavers added to create a little park around it. I warned the owners that this - would likely cause long term damage to the roots. Time will tell.

Sawyer,

Thanks for the response. That confirms my suspicion that the oak trees will probably not recover.

 

[Brushwacker]

Ideally there is an understory of healthy young trees or saplings under and or around the sick trees and you best remove the sick and injured trees to allow sunlight to reach the healthy young trees which will allow their growth to splurge and not be stunted due to competition of the usually larger negative tree. If no trees are near enough to replace it , you can wait until new tree growth germinates or plant something desirable after taking them down. If you plant and have deer, getting new growth above the stage the deer damage them, can be difficult. If you cut a tree down, whatever is growing under it at the time is usually splurges in growth along with, or briars, weeds etc..
Watch a tree like the conifer with dead lower branches longer to see if it can recover. Sometimes an occurrence happens and they can recover the next year or 2. If branches break off and the wounds are healing over completely in less then a couple years , it should be good. Not healing over is sickness and or old age and the tree is on a downhill trend in health and quality. I believe for lumber quality purposes wounds should be mostly healed in about a year. Open wounds allow insects, disease and water easy access promoting decay and cambium damage.

 

[old CB]

With all the foliage in your photo it's hard to tell exactly which belongs to the oak in question. As to whether it will survive, just leave it alone and find out (maybe remove the broken, leaning bit). Some trees will surprise you with their ability to survive considerable damage.

 

[boston]

Ideally there is an understory of healthy young trees or saplings under and or around the sick trees and you best remove the sick and injured trees to allow sunlight to reach the healthy young trees which will allow their growth to splurge and not be stunted due to competition of the usually larger negative tree. If no trees are near enough to replace it , you can wait until new tree growth germinates or plant something desirable after taking them down. If you plant and have deer, getting new growth above the stage the deer damage them, can be difficult. If you cut a tree down, whatever is growing under it at the time is usually splurges in growth along with, or briars, weeds etc..
Watch a tree like the conifer with dead lower branches longer to see if it can recover. Sometimes an occurrence happens and they can recover the next year or 2. If branches break off and the wounds are healing over completely in less then a couple years , it should be good. Not healing over is sickness and or old age and the tree is on a downhill trend in health and quality. I believe for lumber quality purposes wounds should be mostly healed in about a year. Open wounds allow insects, disease and water easy access promoting decay and cambium damage.

Brushwacker,

Thanks for the reply.

I think your comment about the conifers having "a downhill trend in health and quality" describes the status of some of these trees. Based on the amount of dead branches they have, almost to the very top, it looks like they are sick & won't recover.

 

[boston]

With all the foliage in your photo it's hard to tell exactly which belongs to the oak in question. As to whether it will survive, just leave it alone and find out (maybe remove the broken, leaning bit). Some trees will surprise you with their ability to survive considerable damage.

OK, thanks for the response.

 

[old CB]

Actually, the second tree, the one in the smaller "attached" photo, looks to have a good chance of survival. I would not write off either of the trees pictured. If you are hoping to have only perfect columnar tree structures, then go ahead and remove these two. But if you're willing to accept interesting trees that survive despite damage, give them a chance and see what they do over time. Nature's plan includes a lot of what a human designer would not accept.

 

[old CB]

We cannot see the conifers you describe, but as someone who lives in a world of countless conifers (western U.S.) I can say that branches not receiving sunlight will die. Which could account for what you describe. You may be describing conifers that are surrounded by thick canopy, such that only their top remains living.

 

[boston]

We cannot see the conifers you describe, but as someone who lives in a world of countless conifers (western U.S.) I can say that branches not receiving sunlight will die. Which could account for what you describe. You may be describing conifers that are surrounded by thick canopy, such that only their top remains living.

old CB,

I appreciate the info. The first tree may have a chance. The second tree could easily survive. Yet, soil contamination would decrease their likelihood of recovery?

The conifers with dead branches up to the top could also be healthy if they are heavily shaded by other trees.

thanks

 

[old CB]

What soil contamination is there?

Usually, in these discussions of "should I keep this tree?", the end result is A. let the tree remain or B. remove it and plant something to replace it. Either scenario will suffer the same fate if soil is contaminated. But . . . contaminated by what?

 

[boston]

What soil contamination is there?

Usually, in these discussions of "should I keep this tree?", the end result is A. let the tree remain or B. remove it and plant something to replace it. Either scenario will suffer the same fate if soil is contaminated. But . . . contaminated by what?

old CB,

Excellent point!

I probably should have included this factor in the first post. It involves a hypothetical situation about a large tanker truck that spilled barium & aluminum into the soil, & there was no remediation for decades.

That would negatively impact health of all trees in the contaminated soil.

So, if we factor this into the equation, then in that environment, the chances that the trees with the missing tops would recover has been reduced, right?

thank you

 

[TheJollyLogger]

That scenario doesn't sound very hypothetical...

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Maybe less hypothetical and just tell us what is going on... we don't care what happened, just give us all the info so we can help save your trees...

 

[old CB]

And I would mention that your photos show lots of healthy foliage that would seem to indicate no suffering from a spill of anything some years back.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Oh for ****s sake, I should have seen it sooner... Google barium and aluminum... it's that whole chemtrail conspiracy theory...

To the op....

YES!!! CUT ALL THESE TREES DOWN BEFORE THEY TURN INTO ZOMBIE OAKS AND COME AFTER YOUR FAMILY!!! BUT ONLY USE AN OLD CHAINSAW!!! THE NEW ONES ARE ALL FOREIGN MADE AND THEY COULD TURN ON YOU AT ANY MOMENT!!!

 

[Junkyard78]

If you’re a reader there’s a book, The Body Language of Trees. It looks at trees from more of an engineering viewpoint. A good read and not too awful technical. I learned a lot from the book, it’s a good addition to the things learned in the field.