Vermeer 252 rebuild

[dstyduhar]

Hey guys,

First time here. I live in NC and bought a 2007 SC252 last week for 5k. Got the trailer for another 1k. 27HP Kohler runs good, has 900hrs but the grinder itself has been through the wringer. Looks like the jackshaft walked at one time or another, bearings are shot, some of the pulleys need replaced, I need to weld some areas, etc. Did I pay too much? Probably. These smaller grinders go for crazy money around here and that was my budget. I'm just a guy, don't own a business. I live in the sticks and plan to share this amongst a few of us in the local vicinity. We're just some poor boys trying to clear property. Anyway, I plan to give this a front to back overhaul (starting at grinding head side) and was hoping to get some feedback from ya'll here. I got my hands on the service manual and I'll load pics as I go.

Cutter Wheel Guard

Ok first things first, this bar. Do you guys usually cut this off? Do you find it useful?

I have seen a few threads where guys will use it to make a chip scraper but have read mixed results. Ever repurposed it for other uses? If I cut, I plan to follow what's in the service manual. I don't want to mutilate it in the event that someone wants to put it back on in the future.



I'm taking apart the grinding wheel as we speak. Will update later today.

thanks,

Drew

 

[lone wolf]

Hey guys,

First time here. I live in NC and bought a 2007 SC252 last week for 5k. Got the trailer for another 1k. 27HP Kohler runs good, has 900hrs but the grinder itself has been through the wringer. Looks like the jackshaft walked at one time or another, bearings are shot, some of the pulleys need replaced, I need to weld some areas, etc. Did I pay too much? Probably. These smaller grinders go for crazy money around here and that was my budget. I'm just a guy, don't own a business. I live in the sticks and plan to share this amongst a few of us in the local vicinity. We're just some poor boys trying to clear property. Anyway, I plan to give this a front to back overhaul (starting at grinding head side) and was hoping to get some feedback from ya'll here. I got my hands on the service manual and I'll load pics as I go.

Cutter Wheel Guard

Ok first things first, this bar. Do you guys usually cut this off? Do you find it useful?

I have seen a few threads where guys will use it to make a chip scraper but have read mixed results. Ever repurposed it for other uses? If I cut, I plan to follow what's in the service manual. I don't want to mutilate it in the event that someone wants to put it back on in the future.

View attachment 834833

I'm taking apart the grinding wheel as we speak. Will update later today.

thanks,

Drew

I just sold one for 5000.00 and it worked perfectly with a rebuilt Kohler 27 on it. Wait till you try to line all the pullies and belts up perfectly. If you get in a jam I am familiar with the way to do this.

 

[dstyduhar]

Hi,

Just curious, where are you located? I'm in northern NC.

252's with rebuilt engines go for 7500 around here stock as can be. I just saw one go for ~7k with no trailer and 400hrs on engine. I went and looked at a 1k hr Super Jr that was stored OUTSIDE, everything was rusted and there wasn't even oil on the stick. The guy had it listed @ 6k and refused to budge. There was a guy there seriously waiting for me to leave and bought it. It's uncommon to see a 252 or Super Jr here for 5k. 6.5k is a more common price for average condition and 1500 or so hours. Everybody and their Mom is doing landscaping and stump grinding here in this part of NC. The business is flooded and folks are still making money so demand for grinders is high. But hey, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

I would very much appreciate your knowledge when I get to lining up the pulleys.

thank you!

Drew

 

[lone wolf]

Hi,

Just curious, where are you located? I'm in northern NC.

252's with rebuilt engines go for 7500 around here stock as can be. I just saw one go for ~7k with no trailer and 400hrs on engine. I went and looked at a 1k hr Super Jr that was stored OUTSIDE, everything was rusted and there wasn't even oil on the stick. The guy had it listed @ 6k and refused to budge. There was a guy there seriously waiting for me to leave and bought it. It's uncommon to see a 252 or Super Jr here for 5k. 6.5k is a more common price for average condition and 1500 or so hours. Everybody and their Mom is doing landscaping and stump grinding here in this part of NC. The business is flooded and folks are still making money so demand for grinders is high. But hey, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

I would very much appreciate your knowledge when I get to lining up the pulleys.

thank you!

Drew

I am in Nj ,when you get to the pully allighnment let me know if you didnt rip the cutter wheel bearings off yet mark them it will get you close on re install of them.

 

[dstyduhar]

Hey guys,

So yeah more bad news than good, haha. I threw the cutter shaft in my blast cabinet to clean it up a bit. Can anyone guess what's wrong

The drive side bearing was toast and ground away the surface. The other side is OK. No obvious cracks. It doesn't appear to be hardened either with leaves some options for me.

What would you do here?

A. Weld and have turned back to size?

The end with the threaded hole can be chucked in my lathe and the opposite end has a tapered hole for use with a live center. I'm thinking about using my 220v mig, setting this in some cheap v blocks and run some short overlapping welds making sure not to get it too hot. Turn in lathe, and repeat that until I'm happy. Regardless if I did it or paid someone, would you have them turn the OD to stock or make it few thousandths larger so there is a slight press fit on the bearings?

B. Turn down and sleeve?

I like the option the least. With the keyway, the sleeve would need to be split (I think they call is a mill sleeve?) and then welded anyway. If this issue was on the other end of the shaft without the keyway, I would prob go this route since it would provide a sacrificial surface that could be replaced.

C. Have new shaft made?

I mean if you take a step back and look at it, there really isn't much going on. It's two pieces. A guy who does keyed shafts could easily make the main shaft out of 4130 or similar. Might give you a deal if you buy a few of them. And someone with a lathe would make the center section. Hell I don't even think you would need a rotary table for the holes. I would just lay the new over the old, mark holes and drill. Would prob have someone else weld it up to ensure the flange is square.

thanks,

Drew

 

[dstyduhar]

Lone Wolf - I didn't scribe the locations but I can see markings from where they have been previously mounted. I thought for a second about scribing it (good idea) but figured unless I bought the same exact bearings the cast base could be a different style or size. Even if I bought the same, you never know with those chicom bearings.

thank you,

Drew

 

[lone wolf]

Hey guys,

So yeah more bad news than good, haha. I threw the cutter shaft in my blast cabinet to clean it up a bit. Can anyone guess what's wrong

The drive side bearing was toast and ground away the surface. The other side is OK. No obvious cracks. It doesn't appear to be hardened either with leaves some options for me.

What would you do here?

A. Weld and have turned back to size?

The end with the threaded hole can be chucked in my lathe and the opposite end has a tapered hole for use with a live center. I'm thinking about using my 220v mig, setting this in some cheap v blocks and run some short overlapping welds making sure not to get it too hot. Turn in lathe, and repeat that until I'm happy. Regardless if I did it or paid someone, would you have them turn the OD to stock or make it few thousandths larger so there is a slight press fit on the bearings?

B. Turn down and sleeve?

I like the option the least. With the keyway, the sleeve would need to be split (I think they call is a mill sleeve?) and then welded anyway. If this issue was on the other end of the shaft without the keyway, I would prob go this route since it would provide a sacrificial surface that could be replaced.

C. Have new shaft made?

I mean if you take a step back and look at it, there really isn't much going on. It's two pieces. A guy who does keyed shafts could easily make the main shaft out of 4130 or similar. Might give you a deal if you buy a few of them. And someone with a lathe would make the center section. Hell I don't even think you would need a rotary table for the holes. I would just lay the new over the old, mark holes and drill. Would prob have someone else weld it up to ensure the flange is square.

thanks,

DrewView attachment 834921

Call and get a price for a new one first . Also the pillow block bearings were real cheap here when I last ordered them .

 

[lone wolf]

Lone Wolf - I didn't scribe the locations but I can see markings from where they have been previously mounted. I thought for a second about scribing it (good idea) but figured unless I bought the same exact bearings the case base could be a different style or size. Even if I bought the same, you never know with those chicom bearings.

thank you,

Drew

Well if you didn't loosen the screw adjusters you can put it back in the same place.

 

[dstyduhar]

New as in call Vermeer? There is a Vermeer dealer in Greensboro, I'll give them a ring tomorrow.

I can't imagine a machine shop would charge more than $150 to weld and turn it back but who knows.

Regarding pillow block bearings, what do you guys like to use? Genuine Vermeer? anyone got a part number?

thanks!

Drew

 

[lone wolf]

New as in call Vermeer? There is a Vermeer dealer in Greensboro, I'll give them a ring tomorrow.

I can't imagine a machine shop would charge more than $150 to weld and turn it back but who knows.

Regarding pillow block bearings, what do you guys like to use? Genuine Vermeer? anyone got a part number?

thanks!

Drew

I bet that is the cost of a new one.

 

[lone wolf]

I bet that is the cost of a new one.

Get the prices and tell me the costs before you order. PM inbound.

 

[lone wolf]

New as in call Vermeer? There is a Vermeer dealer in Greensboro, I'll give them a ring tomorrow.

I can't imagine a machine shop would charge more than $150 to weld and turn it back but who knows.

Regarding pillow block bearings, what do you guys like to use? Genuine Vermeer? anyone got a part number?

thanks!

Drew

Vermeer knows the part number.

 

[dstyduhar]

I called the Vermeer dealer near me and they quoted me the following:

Cutter shaft - $326.32 (Part # 116541001)
Cutter shaft bearings - $24 (Part # 142465001)
Grinding wheel - $240 (didn't get part #)

Hopefully those part #'s might help someone in the future. I was a bonehead and didn't ask for the grinding wheel part #.

Honestly, the bearings and grinding wheel seem reasonably priced. The Cutter shaft is a little too rich for my blood.

thanks,

Drew

 

[TheAMMIXman]

After you get it all back together and you know it’s all lined up right. I mean you know, not you think so. I would go back and remove the set screws on the jackshaft and cutter shaft bearings one at a time and use a drill bit to make a small dimple under the set screw in the shaft, just a little flat spot really, then lock tite and lock em down till next time. Just my .02

I received that advice from a guy with 6 of these machines I bought a cutter shaft and jack shaft from, I didn’t listen, my jack shaft slid a few weeks later. After I re set the jackshaft I followed his advice. No problems like that since.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

@dstyduhar here is a pic of my clutch with the spring I think you may be missing, good thing I took it, I forgot a zip tie.

@lone wolf if you had put together a pointer list for lining up the pulleys for Drew could you copy and paste here, the 252 upgrade thread, or PM it to me? If you have already done such a thing that is, please don’t go out of your way making some hit list for me.

I can get the cutter wheel belt sheaves really true on install with a dial indicator for round out and a straight edge for alignmen between cutter wheel and jackshaft shelves/pulleys.

Clutch to jackshaft belts is more trial and error, I can’t get a straight edge anywhere on the clutch side, and I don’t think the steel pulley on the clutch has the same distance between belt edge and outside of pulley as the cast one on the jackshaft so a straight edge would be out anyway. I know it’s not the straightest point on the machine but I measure the distance from the belt to “non-removable” guarding to get it close, then watch it run. If the belts don’t flop I call it good, if they bounce around too much at WOT I figure they ain’t straight even if the tension is right.

@dstyduhar Let us know when you get it together or it’s going together. I’m no expert, but I’m happy to help if I can.

@lone wolf appreciate any and all pointers. Still trial and error for those jackshaft belts for me, I’ve done em a few times too.

 

[lone wolf]

@dstyduhar here is a pic of my clutch with the spring I think you may be missing, good thing I took it, I forgot a zip tie. View attachment 835744

@lone wolf if you had put together a pointer list for lining up the pulleys for Drew could you copy and paste here, the 252 upgrade thread, or PM it to me? If you have already done such a thing that is, please don’t go out of your way making some hit list for me.

I can get the cutter wheel belt sheaves really true on install with a dial indicator for round out and a straight edge for alignmen between cutter wheel and jackshaft shelves/pulleys.

Clutch to jackshaft belts is more trial and error, I can’t get a straight edge anywhere on the clutch side, and I don’t think the steel pulley on the clutch has the same distance between belt edge and outside of pulley as the cast one on the jackshaft so a straight edge would be out anyway. I know it’s not the straightest point on the machine but I measure the distance from the belt to “non-removable” guarding to get it close, then watch it run. If the belts don’t flop I call it good, if they bounce around too much at WOT I figure they ain’t straight even if the tension is right.

@dstyduhar Let us know when you get it together or it’s going together. I’m no expert, but I’m happy to help if I can.

@lone wolf appreciate any and all pointers. Still trial and error for those jackshaft belts for me, I’ve done em a few times too.

Stock pulley and belt system or was it changed?

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Stock pulley and belt system or was it changed?

Stock cutter wheel belts and pulleys cutter wheel to motor. Hydro Pump has smaller pulley and belt.

 

[dstyduhar]

TheAMMIXman - Hey thanks for the pic of your clutch. I just ran out to take a pic of my clutch setup and it doesn't look like what you have? You also have cooling fins...... interesting. Any ideas? You can see how the clutch contacts the housing. Sort of tough to see but there is a hole near the wiring that I could put a spring on but I will need to take the clutch off an rotate it so it's correctly oriented. I just noticed that I don't even have the hole where the other end of the spring is attached in your picture. hmmm,

Just curious, did you buy your better/improved clutch through Vermeer? I'd be curious to know if they only sell the better clutch? If the round one had issues then it's probably superseded by what you are running.

thanks,

Drew

 

[lone wolf]

Stock cutter wheel belts and pulleys cutter wheel to motor. Hydro Pump has smaller pulley and belt.

Pics when you are ready.

 

[dstyduhar]

Well, here is the update on the cutter shaft situation. Checked out a few shops here in good old Reidsville NC and these guys told me it would be about 200 to fix. They told me to make a new one would be a lot more than the $320 I would pay through Vermeer. That being said, I think they were giving me the Yankee price but I aint a Yankee! I'm from the West Coast damnit.

Anyway, got home and chucked the cutter shaft in my lathe and saw noticeable runout on the end that got buggered up. About .020 TIR. Hmmm. Flipped the shaft over and still see runout on the end opposite of the chuck. See the same runout with live center and steady rest at end opposite of chuck. I have a foot long standard I chuck and the runout is minimal across the shaft so its not like my chuck is crooked or anything. Ya know, the damn weld bead for the flange looks single pass and is as wide as my pinky. It's a huge weld. Take a look next time you are changing teeth. I wonder if the guys making it even gave a **** about the heat and causing the shaft to sag or just buzzed the flange and boxed it up. I guess what Im getting at it if they weld these shafts up, and some sag is present then I don't see how you can fix them without a lot of screwing around. I'm just going to buy new.

thanks,

Drew