What Makes A Chainsaw Chain Aggressive?

[BobL]

LP is significantly narrower than regular 3/8 so it removes less wood than a 3/8 chain. I use it milling small logs on 441 (72cc) with 25" bar on hard (and I mean HARD) wood without any problems, I use a raker angle of ~7.5º which equates to ~33thou raker depth on new chain, and 60thou when the gullet reaches 0.45" and by then there's not much raker left and saw dust clearance become problematic - actually sawdust clearance becomes a problem when the gullet reaches 0.40"

Obtaining drive sprockets can be an issue. I've taken 404 sprockets and machined them own to suit.

 

[FabianRW]

Depends on the wood and the angle of cut...

In milling you can set the angle around 10° on average but harder woods down to 0° and softer woods 15° that's generally milling tooth angle range.
Once you know that you can set up the raker depth to be lower or higher, this should also match the type of wood (hardness). Other reasons for changing these are usually finish left and depth of cut. If the depth of cut is extremely deep, say over 4' a skip chain is usually used, which will put less strain on the saw, so this is yet another way to lower 'bite' as you literally have fewer teeth in the wood at any one time.
Accuracy becomes more important in chain angle and 'bite' because as soon as you get damage or uneven bluntness things go out quickly.

In crosscutting you have the same thing but not so much, 25° world well in most cases but what's more important is depth that each tooth tries to bite and you do not want much kickback. It takes less energy for the saw to go across the grain so the cut is more aggressive.
Therefore skip chains are avoided in crosscutting and it becomes about matching power and cut depth suitable to the saw and it's capabilities.

In addition to these factors you get the type of chain: semi chisel, full chisel, micro chisel and other variants. The general rule is the better they cut, such as full chisel, the less resistant they are to getting blunt but also the worse they are in relative terms at cutting once dull. The straight line of a cut will start to curve to one side without sharpening, therefore bite is limited and accuracy becomes terrible.
Then of course you can sharpen in one of many ways, in most cases all this does is make the chain more specialised for certain applications, in addition you can try square sharpen and you can try more unique stuff in milling chains.
The jist is if it suits the application it's worth trying.

Then you get chain size, this is obvious but probably the biggest factor of bite... A large chain takes more bite than a smaller chain and is entirely matched to the application and the powerhead.

Chain tension is the final factor that I can think of and this links to every aspect including what you're cutting and how, if you have loose chain that is not suited to your application it will try to bite too much, block up then not bite much or cut at all. If you have too tight a chain it will stress the powerhead and if there are problems it could throw the chain.
So chain tension has to be at least the minimum that gives the raker depth and tooth angle a chance to work properly.

The perfect setup gets all three in perfect balance and cuts well and for a long time with minimal amounts needed to be taken off in sharpening, that is the easiest way to think of it as it becomes instinctive beyond a certain level.
The chain when new arrives in a pretty decent configuration, sticking to that will generally give good results if you are unsure.


Overall speed and power increase bite and therefore you can choose to have high chain speed and less bite or lower chain speed and more bite, getting the perfect balance between the two for the specific application is the only important thing you need to focus on.

 

[Hipastore]

Very interesting. Exactly which attributes of LP chain make it so homeowner friendly? In what way is LP more appropriate than .325? Or is .325 better? Please do share your insights with us.

I think low profile chain is a comprehensive chain. It can deal with most cutting objects and is safer than those chains with full chisel cutter teeth. So I think it is friendly to home owners

 

[Hipastore]

LP is significantly narrower than regular 3/8 so it removes less wood than a 3/8 chain. I use it milling small logs on 441 (72cc) with 25" bar on hard (and I mean HARD) wood without any problems, I use a raker angle of ~7.5º which equates to ~33thou raker depth on new chain, and 60thou when the gullet reaches 0.45" and by then there's not much raker left and saw dust clearance become problematic - actually sawdust clearance becomes a problem when the gullet reaches 0.40"

Obtaining drive sprockets can be an issue. I've taken 404 sprockets and machined them own to suit.

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Hipastore]

Depends on the wood and the angle of cut...

In milling you can set the angle around 10° on average but harder woods down to 0° and softer woods 15° that's generally milling tooth angle range.
Once you know that you can set up the raker depth to be lower or higher, this should also match the type of wood (hardness). Other reasons for changing these are usually finish left and depth of cut. If the depth of cut is extremely deep, say over 4' a skip chain is usually used, which will put less strain on the saw, so this is yet another way to lower 'bite' as you literally have fewer teeth in the wood at any one time.
Accuracy becomes more important in chain angle and 'bite' because as soon as you get damage or uneven bluntness things go out quickly.

In crosscutting you have the same thing but not so much, 25° world well in most cases but what's more important is depth that each tooth tries to bite and you do not want much kickback. It takes less energy for the saw to go across the grain so the cut is more aggressive.
Therefore skip chains are avoided in crosscutting and it becomes about matching power and cut depth suitable to the saw and it's capabilities.

In addition to these factors you get the type of chain: semi chisel, full chisel, micro chisel and other variants. The general rule is the better they cut, such as full chisel, the less resistant they are to getting blunt but also the worse they are in relative terms at cutting once dull. The straight line of a cut will start to curve to one side without sharpening, therefore bite is limited and accuracy becomes terrible.
Then of course you can sharpen in one of many ways, in most cases all this does is make the chain more specialised for certain applications, in addition you can try square sharpen and you can try more unique stuff in milling chains.
The jist is if it suits the application it's worth trying.

Then you get chain size, this is obvious but probably the biggest factor of bite... A large chain takes more bite than a smaller chain and is entirely matched to the application and the powerhead.

Chain tension is the final factor that I can think of and this links to every aspect including what you're cutting and how, if you have loose chain that is not suited to your application it will try to bite too much, block up then not bite much or cut at all. If you have too tight a chain it will stress the powerhead and if there are problems it could throw the chain.
So chain tension has to be at least the minimum that gives the raker depth and tooth angle a chance to work properly.

The perfect setup gets all three in perfect balance and cuts well and for a long time with minimal amounts needed to be taken off in sharpening, that is the easiest way to think of it as it becomes instinctive beyond a certain level.
The chain when new arrives in a pretty decent configuration, sticking to that will generally give good results if you are unsure.


Overall speed and power increase bite and therefore you can choose to have high chain speed and less bite or lower chain speed and more bite, getting the perfect balance between the two for the specific application is the only important thing you need to focus on.

Thanks, sir. I will read your reply carefully. I think I will learn much from this.

 

[Hipastore]

They play a huge part in chain aggressiveness. They control how deep the cutter bites into the wood. With softer woods, you can use a lower setting. With harder woods, you need to take a smaller bite. The power of the saw comes into play as well.

Thanks, sir.

 

[chipper1]

I am still amazed, a few years down the road now, with an experience I had buying a saw at a hardware store after my usual dealer repeatedly dropped the ball on getting in the model I wanted, while I was on a job, and more long story yaddayaddayadda. The friendly local hardware store had one last copy of it, a pro model, sitting on the shelf, ready to walk out the door.

What they did not have, on the saw, or on the shelf, or even “in the computer” to quickly order, was any full chisel chain, at all. “We’re not allowed to sell that any more.”

What store was this at.

 

[chipper1]

I have seen where users filed from new to expended and NEVER filed the depth gages.... while still wondering "WHY does the chain never cut like a NEW chain?" "Just filed like my Daddy taught me" they said... Reminds me of the daughter asked the Mother, who asked the grandmother.. "? "WHY do you cut the end off the roast before you put it in the pan?" and both responded "because Momma always did"... so they all asked GGM, who said "To make it fit in the pan, silly"

Then someone asked "why not put the roast in a bigger pan", to which GGM said "that wouldn't fit in the oven". To which the granddaughter said, "momma what's a roast" .

 

[chipper1]

I think low profile chain is a comprehensive chain. It can deal with most cutting objects and is safer than those chains with full chisel cutter teeth. So I think it is friendly to home owners

As has already been said; low profile chain can be bought in various styles, including full chisel, which can kick back similarly to standard 3/8.

 

[chipper1]

when the gullet reaches 0.45" and by then there's not much raker left and saw dust clearance become problematic - actually sawdust clearance becomes a problem when the gullet reaches 0.40"

Where are you taking this measurement Bob.

 

[Campbellcontractlogging]

I have seen where users filed from new to expended and NEVER filed the depth gages.... while still wondering "WHY does the chain never cut like a NEW chain?" "Just filed like my Daddy taught me" they said... Reminds me of the daughter asked the Mother, who asked the grandmother.. "? "WHY do you cut the end off the roast before you put it in the pan?" and both responded "because Momma always did"... so they all asked GGM, who said "To make it fit in the pan, silly"

My dad who is a logger taught me to file a chain and said it’s a good rule of thumb when you file them teeth to hit them drags every time. I’m a logger now and I find that for every two times I hit my teeth with a file I hit the drags every other sharpening and it works out good for me and I cut timber for 6 to 8 hours a day. When I first started in the woods I’d sharpen like 5 times and wonder what the hell is going on and dad would be like ya gotta hit them drags then I’d hit them to damn much and my saw would be getting stuck in a cut stopped every time and he’d be like stop filling them drags so much ya know that saw cools wile it’s running dumb ass when your teeth stuck and your reving that saw you’ll burn it up. This stuff takes time and practice we where all beginners at some point and I’m still learning things.

 

[cookies]

I think low profile chain is a comprehensive chain. It can deal with most cutting objects and is safer than those chains with full chisel cutter teeth. So I think it is friendly to home owners

Low profile chain comes in full chisel , the chains they put on new saws with extra anti kick back links for unsuspecting novices are your comprehensive versions. I explained this in a earlier post.

 

[Stihl Learning]

The main safety feature on the non-aggressive chains is the way the rakers extend when the chain wraps around the tip of the bar. This feature helps stop the cutters from contacting the wood and thereby to limit kickback. It makes plunge cuts difficult at best.

 

[HumBurner]

I think low profile chain is a comprehensive chain. It can deal with most cutting objects and is safer than those chains with full chisel cutter teeth. So I think it is friendly to home owners

You're an uneducated, terrible excuse for a bot.

 

[Franny K]

I think low profile chain is a comprehensive chain. It can deal with most cutting objects and is safer than those chains with full chisel cutter teeth. So I think it is friendly to home owners

Low profile is a trademarked word by Oregon. 33, 34 sl and lg are obselete low profile chain in .325. (Chisel by the way.) I think it applies to how far above the sliding surface the cutting edge is. In 3/8 the river center is closer to the sliding surface and drive links smaller. Chassis lighter, tooth smaller.

There are some errors in your other post about spur vs rim.

 

[Franny K]

As has already been said; low profile chain can be bought in various styles, including full chisel, .......

Well, Oregon 3/8 lp is either chamfer chisel or semi chisel. Stihl uses the trademarked picco, Husqvarna seems to call it mini. Perhaps 3/8 reduced should be used instead of lp to refer to this class of chain needing a specific nose sprocket.

 

[farmguywithasaw]

how does depth gauge contribute to cutting

oh boy it determines how death the cutter will dig into the wood. Depending on the conditions standard chain will cut faster than skip on say a 20” bar on a 70cc saw. The whole point of skip is so you can put say a 32” bar on a 70 cc saw and it won’t over work it

 

[link]

View attachment 1010705
There is no doubt that an aggressive chain improves cutting efficiency, and that is the main reason why loggers or professionals pursue such an extreme chainsaw chain. But there are still some who are puzzled by what makes a chainsaw chain aggressive. When searching for an aggressive chainsaw chain, factors such as the cutter types, the cutter teeth sequence, the size of the chainsaw chain, as well as the chainsaw power should be taken into consideration. In fact, the violent kickback comes from cutting as you enjoy the well-improved cutting performance.
Here, we will talk about the features that make a chain aggressive. The following list can be used to determine the most aggressive chainsaw chain:

The Cutter Type
View attachment 1010671
It has been well-known that there are commonly semi-chisel cutter chains, full-chisel cutter chains, and low-profile cutter chains on the market. The full-chisel cutter features square-cornered cutter teeth, making the chain more aggressive than the other two types of cutters. Because of the square-cornered cutter teeth, the saw chain blade is sharper than the round-cornered cutter teeth to cut through hardwoods.

The Cutter Teeth Sequence
View attachment 1010672
The more cutters on the chain, the more drag the chain would receive and the slower the chain would run. Based on this principle, we can know that the skip chain, which has fewer cutter teeth, needs less power from your chainsaw to offset the drag from the chain. So your chainsaw with a skip chain could run faster and more aggressively. Moreover, the skip chain has the most wider gap between every cutter tooth. The wide gap allows wood shavings to be carried out by the chain, which contributes to deep cuttings.

The Size of the Chain
In more precise words, the pitch of the chain partly determines the aggressiveness of the chainsaw chain. The pitch is dictated by the chainsaw, unless you are going to buy a new chainsaw, or you have to choose chains according to what your chainsaw takes. The larger pitch sizes equal the larger and heavier chains. The .404 pitch chains are the most aggressive chainsaw chains than the chains with other pitch sizes. They are capable of dealing with heavy-duty works such as large timber.

The Chainsaw Power
Chainsaw power is also an important factor in aggressiveness. Some chainsaws with small motors are never aggressive enough to handle heavy cutting jobs. A chainsaw with a strong engine would be a sustainable power source to drive the chain aggressively.

Conclusion
For the chainsaw chain itself, the most aggressive chain is a .404 pitch, full-chisel skip chain. However, you should be careful to work with it, as you may be injured from the violent kickback. For the chainsaw, a strong motor makes faster-cutting speed which also contributes to the aggressiveness of the chainsaw.

The most noticeable change in chain aggressiveness is at the rider/raker height, and at the kerf width.
Usually too low or too wide at less than 42cc, makes for a very unpleasant and poor working saw.

 

[Philbert]

The main safety feature on the non-aggressive chains is the way the rakers extend when the chain wraps around the tip of the bar. This feature helps stop the cutters from contacting the wood and thereby to limit kickback. It makes plunge cuts difficult at best.

The low-kickback bumpers do not prevent the cutters from biting into the wood, they reduce the chance of digging in too deeply, or of snagging another object.

They were originally designed to ‘full in’ The spaces between cutters, when cutting very small diameter branches. The reduced kickback feature was an unintended benefit.

They do reduce the efficiency of bore / plunge cutting, but it can be done.

Philbert

 

[Bubster]

Any chain can be filed to be aggressive.It will all depend on hook, filing out the beak or gullet, and raker height. Of course, a chain like a Stihl RS is already aggressive out of the box, but you can turn an RM into a chain that easily out cuts a new RS that just came from the factory.