I think the basic complaint is that they cannot get law enforcement to catch the trespassing turkey hunters. If so, they are also unlikely to get the cops out to arrest drone hunters.
What to do about persistent poachers?
- Thread starter Kdawg
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If you have them on film, go to the court and swear out a complaint. The judge will make LEO do their job that they are paid for.
Now that you are leasing hunting rights out to "customers" any poaching can be considered business damaging and monetary losses.
A supply of cheap, sacrificial drones (maybe from eBay?) is needed to do the flushing out, after the expensive drone has checked out the situation.
And if they do shoot down a drone what is the penalty for such criminal damage?
I'm pretty sure shooting drones out of the sky where they are being flown legally will generate some interest from the FAA or other federal law enforcement...
Shooting a drone out of the sky is a Federal offense. A drone is considered an aircraft, and shooting down a drone is no different than shooting down an airplane that buzzing your house.
Title 18 US Code 32 of the 1984 Aircraft Sabotage Act
https://laws101.com/shoot-down-a-drone/https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml...)&f=treesort&edition=prelim&num=0&jumpTo=true
If you try to jam the com signal, thats a Federal offense too..
Communications Act of 1934
https://pilotinstitute.com/drone-jammers/https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/chapter-5
VirginiaIron
ArboristSite Operative
Subscribed
For sure. I share your concern... Laws were written by the people for the people to read and use the courts rather than dueling in the streets or taking vigilante action against someone whom is also breaking the law. Admittedly the courts don't always have a predictable outcome because the courts are also run by people. Over time though, law trends toward what constitutes justice.
So Im all about following the laws and using criminal and civil courts to defend my property even though that is the long game. Gathering evidence is the means by which pursuit in court becomes more effective.
Couple decades ago I had a theft of personal property incident despite a well written contract that necessitated going to civil court. No attorney wanted to take it for less than the value of the item stolen, so I studied and represented myself in court against two law firms. I made mistakes, and I didn't come off anywhere near polished in the court room, but I won the case. Since then I have gone pro se (self represented) against others that take from me and am happy to report all have been wins including against the local government in State Supreme Court and a large corporation.
Its a ton of work to go this route but ultimately this path will trend toward justice as well.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
Well said. I have had many issues over the years and been on both sides/ends. In one case we were told we could not take back the property that was stolen as that would be theft. Seems odd how a person can be charged with theft of their own property.
I have actually dealt with this issue when I purchased my 106 acres of property that people had used as public ground for years. That included the local very small-town police. They were NOT hard to stop once they knew I did NOT allow anyone to hunt without permission. In my state on here do post with signs as well as purple paint along the property line perimeter. I actually live on this property and my family, and I hunt it so we have encountered trespassers face to face or gun barrel to gun barrel as well as some shots. Knowing one's individual state laws is a MUST in dealing with trespassers as there are several things that come into play other than the actual trespassing as the "stand your ground" law in your state may also be a means of protection when things get heated. TRUST me when face to face they can get heated very quickly. In this state even a game warden or law enforcement officer can't come upon private property without reasonable belief that a crime is or has been committed on your property. People entering your property to retrieve game, or their hunting dog(s) is NOT one that gives even a law enforcement officer cause to enter your property. Trying to enforce NO TRESPASSING on big tracts of property is very difficult as the offenders have numerous ways to enter upon it. In my case the property is land locked with only a private lane going back to my home and they still walk across half mile sections to get onto mine. I did call the game warden several times in my earlier years of owning this property some 30 years ago only to be told they didn't have the resources to respond to every trespassing complaint. I was also told by one that "IF" I would allow him to hunt it he would keep track of trespassers. All I can say is that after several of the past 30 years of SHOTS being fired and some people's trucks with stray bullet holes through the beds or windows, the word gets out that crazy stuff goes on out at that property!
Bill G
ArboristSite King
In Illinois game wardens can and will enter property at any time for any reason.
Also I do not know what state wardog is in but here if shots are fired or holes are put in trucks you will find yourself in a courtroom and on the losing side.
Also I do not know what state wardog is in but here if shots are fired or holes are put in trucks you will find yourself in a courtroom and on the losing side.
Stihl a grasshopper
ArboristSite Operative
To say that that scenario would really irritate me would be an understatement!
Bill G
ArboristSite King
Well when the detective told us we could not take it back my father used some colorful language to the effect of ".oh yeah well.....arrest me or watch me..". It was 2 four wheelers and they were viewable from the road. We drove in and took them back. No arrests we're made.
Obtaining the proof for a conviction is different situation than whether it is legal. I'm pretty sure it could be alleged that the bullet holes might have been fired from other hunters on the property, also trespassing.
"Yeah, I've got some guys that come out here and think they own the place. If you cops would come out when I make the trespasser calls, these guys might not end up shooting at each other. I'll bet that guy that got his truck shot up probably tried to run someone else off, and got some other hunters pissed off at him.
You think I did it? Hell, I'm the one that made the trespassing phone call to get you out here."
Obviously, one would be getting exposed to criminal prosecution. On the other hand, trespassers with their vehicles on someone else's property aren't too likely to post a complaint, either.
Possesion is 9/10ths of the law, or so they say.
Your father could probably have provided proof of ownership. The other guys... not so much.
I've recovered quite a few stolen items in my life. I make a police report on the stolen item as soon as discovered, and then I have my butt covered as soon as I have my hands on the stolen items. Usually, it is in a pawn shop, and the cops recover the stolen goods for me.
Yes. I ALWAYS prosecute.
I live in Indiana just across the river from Illinois and have never hunted in Illinois but know many that do. To address many people's concerns about blowing holes in vehicles and or nails, Those are not things I would do as a first choice but I will tell you that the property is mine to do with as I like so "IF" I choose to shoot through my property and or put boards with nails in them randomly throughout, that is my prerogative and evidently those who trespass can't be controlled to stay out of harm's way to their property as they illegally enter upon mine! I can shoot holes through my own home or truck "IF" I want to do so. Once a person makes the CHOICE to trespass, they are solely responsible for the consequences of the CHOICES they make especially when they THEMSELVES are violating the law(s) when they make that CHOICE. I researched the trespassing laws in Illinios and have to say they pretty much resemble those here in Indiana except that Illinois has posting laws that Indiana does not. With that said one should actually have the law interpreted by the game authority office or have been in court where a judge describes it to both parties, which I have.
Here is the EXACT law in Illinois as written:
"Private Land Permission and Access
It is unlawful for any person to take (see definition of “take”) or
attempt to take any species of wildlife or parts thereof or intentionally
or wantonly allow a dog to hunt, within or upon the land of another,
or upon waters flowing over or standing on the land of another, or
to knowingly shoot a gun or bow and arrow device at any wildlife
physically on or flying over the property of another without first
obtaining permission from the owner or the owner’s designee. For the
purposes of this law, the owner’s designee means anyone whom the
owner designates in a written authorization and the authorization must
contain (i) the legal or common description of property, (ii) the extent
that the owner’s designee is authorized to make decisions regarding
who is allowed to take or attempt to take any species of wildlife or
parts thereof, and (iii) the owner’s notarized signature.
Illinois law does not grant the right of trespass for the purpose of
retrieving wounded or crippled wildlife or hunting dogs. Secure
permission from the landowner or tenant before entering any property.
Your conduct while hunting and trapping can influence the landowner’s
decision to allow future hunting or trapping. Note: Railroad rights- of way are private property and permission from the owner is needed
before hunting or trapping."
"All Conservation Police Officers are empowered, pursuant to law, to
enter all lands and waters to enforce the provisions of the Wildlife
Code and Administrative Rules."
One will NOTICE that in ILLINOIS it is EXACTLY as Indiana law in that a Conservation Police officer can enter ALL lands pursuant to LAW "TO ENFORCE the PROVISIONS of the wildlife code and Administrative Rules. PLEASE show us in the Illinois law where, hunting on private land without permission or trespass, retrieving game or hunting dogs is a legal provision of the wildlife code. FACT is they are cited in the EXACT written PRIVATE WRITTEN LAND PERMISSION and ACCESS LAW as prohibited. When doing so without probable cause of a violation of the law, they Conservation Police officers, themselves have violated one's 4th Amendment Constitutional rights AS I stated many hunters have learned the interpretation of these words in a court of law, including me on BOTH sides of the isle. AGAIN this is one of the reasons I quit coon hunting at night as this kind of hunting does not allow for actual controlling of dogs from private property and "IF" I do not own it or have written permission to be on it I am in violation of the law in this state which has NO posting laws, making that illegal for most property.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
The game wardens in Illinois can and will enter any property at anytime. They can and will enter your home in search of illegally taken game. They do not need a search warrant just a reasonable suspicion of discovery.
In Illinois if you do any of the things you have suggested and the trespasser is injured or their property is damaged you will end up in court on the losing end. You can believe what you want but that is the way it is. That is the way it works. Here is some real life examples not something pulled from the internet.
1. In about 1978 my father and I were running traps on the Mississippi River. We look over to the bank and see a game warden driving his car (yes car) along a private logging road we had to access our boat landing. This was a rough rutted up logging road in the woods Dad says "we had better go see what he wants" He pulled into the clearing and dad steered to boat over to see him. The warden had stopped along the way through the woods to help a 80 year man load a deer he had legally harvested on our land. The warden wanted to know about some illigal trapping that had been occurring in that section of pool 16. He got in the boat with us and Dad took him to where it was going on. The warden looked at the sets and looked at Dad and said "well you want a few more traps" The warden pulled the sets and put them in our boat. The game warden entered our land without permission and had no expectation of a crime being committed on that land
2. In about 1986 I was legally hunting my own land with my brother and cousin. It was near the end of the day and we were walking out along the north slop of a hill as we got closer to the road we saw someone crossing the creek on foot not wearing orange. We went to investigate and it was a game warden carrying a wooden silhouette gun. He was own our farm without permission and not in orange. He said the wooden gun was to make it seemed like he was hunting. He was an idiot but he was the law. The game warden entered our land without permission and had no expectation of a crime being committed.
3. In about 1988 my brother and cousin were on our land. It was at the end of the day again. This time they were riding ATV's out a logging road. As they came down the big bluff hill the encountered a game warden a solid distance onto our farm. Now in this case they were in the wrong as it was after sunset which used to be the end of shooting hours. They had their guns loaded and were on ATV's They were cited for loaded weapons after legal shooting hours and hunting from a motorized vehicle. The game warden entered our land without permission and had no expectation of a crime being committed.
4. In about 2004 a kid and his buddies thought it would be fun to take their fathers 4 wheel drive truck and go "mudding" Well the idiots crossed the creek and went out into plowed field and got stuck in the middle. It was our land. They left the truck and we saw it the next day. We called the law and they came out ran the plates and called the owner. The officer told Dad that he had to allow them reasonable access to retrieve the vehicle. Dad was a growly ole guy and had some words with the officer but that was the law. In was about a week before it froze up enough for them to get the truck out. In that week someone busted all the glass out of the truck. I did not do it but had I then I would have been in court on the losing end.
I have more real life actual examples but somehow I think you will just keep believing what you want. I sure hope you do not do the things you talk about but if you do get a good attorney.
Yep, it isn't the 40's,50,s or 60's anymore. If you go proactive you end up in a world of hurt ( sucks - but that's way things are). Cameras are you best bet ( well concealed), If the locals won't help take it up stairs ( yes the good ol boy syndrum does still exist).
Not reading all 14 pages, but did the OP resolve his problem?
Just my two cents.
Gates and fences make good neighbors.
As much as I hate to, you have to involve the man. Game wardens around here love this stuff. Local sheriff also. Carry your cell phone and have them or 911 on speed dial. If that doesn’t work, say looks like he’s got a gun pointing my way. That will get their butt in gear.
Just my two cents.
Gates and fences make good neighbors.
As much as I hate to, you have to involve the man. Game wardens around here love this stuff. Local sheriff also. Carry your cell phone and have them or 911 on speed dial. If that doesn’t work, say looks like he’s got a gun pointing my way. That will get their butt in gear.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
Not in my area. The closest officer is many times 30 miles away
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